Few topics get golfers fired up quite like loft jacking. Iron lofts have become stronger over the years, leading to plenty of comments about a modern 7-iron really being a 6-iron. But is looking at the number on the bottom of the club really that simple?
In Episode 9 of Splitting Fairways, Hawk and Jeremy tackle the loft-jacking debate and why stronger lofts aren’t necessarily good or bad.
Why Have Iron Lofts Become Stronger?
Modern iron construction has changed dramatically. Hollow-body designs, thinner faces, lower centers of gravity, and improved materials have allowed manufacturers to create irons that produce more ball speed while still launching the ball high enough to be playable.

For Hawk, that combination of added distance and forgiveness can be a major benefit. If a stronger-lofted 7-iron launches high, carries farther, and still has enough stopping power to hold a green, does it really matter what loft is stamped on the spec sheet?
Jeremy looks at things a little differently. As a golfer who already generates plenty of speed, chasing additional distance with an iron can create more problems than it solves. Spin, peak height, distance control, descent angle, and proper gapping throughout the set may be far more important than simply hitting a 7-iron farther.
Does Loft Jacking Really Matter?
Of course, stronger lofts can create other issues. The race to build the longest 7-iron can lead to larger gaps at the bottom of the bag and the need for additional wedges. At the same time, many of these distance-focused irons also provide forgiveness that can make the game easier for a wide range of golfers.
Maybe the loft-jacking debate doesn’t need a winner. Instead of worrying about whether your 7-iron has the loft of an old 6-iron, the better question might be whether it produces the launch, spin, height, forgiveness, consistency, and distance your game actually needs.
The loft-jacking debate is officially over. Well, at least until the comments open.
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People believing everyone delivers with the same AoA and dynamic loft are the same ones fighting the different lofts. They just don’t understand that weight can be moved to give the same ball flight with different swings
I’m glad we finally settled this once and for all.
I also feel like this episode was essentially a confessional for me 💀
The look on [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] face when I said I want my ball to stop within 3 feet :ROFLMAO:
I will listen, then post my thoughts on it this morning. By the end of the day…..this will be Mtljeff
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Largely, if the clubs work for you, who cares? I mean why get bothered by what others play…
Yes I know how I am filling this 45 min flight now!!! Let’s go!!!
By the way I do like the longer pods now. At first they were like 15-20 mins
A year from now [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] and [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] are gonna be doing Rogan style 4 hour pods at this rate
Uh oh… 😆
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14266346, member: 1193″]
I also feel like this episode was essentially a confessional for me 💀
[/QUOTE]
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Great video guys. Good topic.
I gotta say I’m in agreement with [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] all day. I need some forgiveness and consistency, I don’t need pure distance. I don’t want the irons to be short, but want consistency.
It’s an interesting question [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] posed, but instead of your 7 iron going 185 and runining out some, or 175 and stopping. Would you give up 10 yards on your current 7 iron to have it stop within 3 feet of where it hit?
I would not just because I’m already too short of a hitter.
[QUOTE=”TWright, post: 14266456, member: 11048″]
It’s an interesting question [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] posed, but instead of your 7 iron going 185 and runining out some, or 175 and stopping. Would you give up 10 yards on your current 7 iron to have it stop within 3 feet of where it hit?
I would not just because I’m already too short of a hitter.
[/QUOTE]
I definitely feel like some people believe consistency magically vanishes with a few degrees of loft change.
[QUOTE=”TWright, post: 14266456, member: 11048″]
It’s an interesting question [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] posed, but instead of your 7 iron going 185 and runining out some, or 175 and stopping. Would you give up 10 yards on your current 7 iron to have it stop within 3 feet of where it hit?
I would not just because I’m already too short of a hitter.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the 175/185 numbers he threw out there were quite callous and cruel 😂
Where to begin….
How far does a 7 iron go?
As far as “I” want it to. lol
I want a 7 iron (really any club) to stop at its pitch mark.
Loft jacking was 100% to win the hitting bay 7 iron battle. We can say that because many companies are starting to back off the stronger numbers. That doesn’t mean it was a bad thing for everyone or that companies were being misleading.
The loft number only matters so much. And it shouldn’t matter to you how far I hit any club.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14266486, member: 1193″]
I thought the 175/185 numbers he threw out there were quite callous and cruel 😂
[/QUOTE]
I was laughing at that part cause I’m right there with you that i’ll easily take 175 in whatever roll out conditions. :ROFLMAO:
[USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] Why is it a bad thing to hit a 7 iron 200 yards? Can’t you just adjust?
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266492, member: 53139″]
Where to begin….
How far does a 7 iron go?
As far as “I” want it to. lol
I want a 7 iron (really any club) to stop at its pitch mark.
Loft jacking was 100% to win the hitting bay 7 iron battle. We can say that because many companies are starting to back off the stronger numbers. That doesn’t mean it was a bad thing for everyone or that companies were being misleading.
The loft number only matters so much. And it shouldn’t matter to you how far I hit any club.
[/QUOTE]
While companies are offering HL options, they definitely aren’t backing off the baseline completely.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14266502, member: 1193″]
While companies are offering HL options, they definitely aren’t backing off the baseline completely.
[/QUOTE]
Oh for sure.
[USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] distance irons may not be about ego. But players distance irons are 100% about ego. lol!!!
Great episode! Give me the distance!!!
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266543, member: 53139″]
[USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] distance irons may not be about ego. But players distance irons are 100% about ego. lol!!!
[/QUOTE]
I love a bold statement like this lol
Because think about it. A players distance irons “should” mean you can play right? So why do you need distance? Other than you don’t like hitting an 7 iron when everyone else is hitting a 8.
Or you want to tell your buddies you hit an 8 when they are hitting 7s
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266501, member: 53139″]
[USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] Why is it a bad thing to hit a 7 iron 200 yards? Can’t you just adjust?
[/QUOTE]
It left me with major gaps at the bottom of the bag because the other clubs didn’t translate to that same distance
The only time loft jacking bugs me is when golf announcers slobber and ooze all over Bryson. lol. Because his 9 iron has the loft of a 7 iron and the length of a 7 iron. Yes, he mashes the ball but let’s not pretend for that dude there isn’t a huge ego element involved.
Far less spicy than expected
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266543, member: 53139″]
[USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] distance irons may not be about ego. But players distance irons are 100% about ego. lol!!!
[/QUOTE]
So its not ego to like what you like and want plain blade irons, but it is to like what you like and want more distance and a larger sole in a smaller overall package?
I’m convinced people on THP don’t remember their old posts never go away.
Looking forward to listening to this one.
More traditional construction and lofts tend to work better for me for the way I deliver the club at impact.
My shot shape is a mid trajectory draw. I generally benefit from more loft to give me higher launch and more back spin.
Also do better with clubs with less offset and a flatter lie angle.
I haven’t been much of a fan of the trend towards designing irons with lower lofts because they don’t work as well for me personally.
Not saying they are bad. But with my club delivery I tend to get lower launch, less spin and more run out which increases my total distance but are less playable on course because it is harder for me to hit and hold greens.
Can’t it be both? Also, I have no problem acknowledging and accepting that much of my golf game is ego driven..
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266605, member: 53139″]
Can’t it be both? Also, I have no problem acknowledging much of my golf game is ego driven..
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What part of an iron set offering more playability would be the ego driven part?
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14266344, member: 1193″]
I’m glad we finally settled this once and for all.
[/QUOTE]
So glad we will never have this be a topic of conversation on the forum again
Separately, I think the title could also be “When a Pitching Wedge isn’t a Wedge”
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266543, member: 53139″]
[USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] distance irons may not be about ego. But players distance irons are 100% about ego. lol!!!
[/QUOTE]
Explain. I disagree with this statement.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266412, member: 68350″]
By the way I do like the longer pods now. At first they were like 15-20 mins
A year from now [USER=5944]@Lord Tox[/USER] and [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] are gonna be doing Rogan style 4 hour pods at this rate
[/QUOTE]
Can’t wait for the 4 hr debates..
“Treeclimbers.. why?”
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14266608, member: 3″]
What part of an iron set offering more playability would be the ego driven part?
[/QUOTE]
In reality how much more playable is a players distance iron than a standard CB?
For example. Is the mizuno m15 really more playable than the 3DP tours?
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14266619, member: 5944″]
Explain. I disagree with this statement.
[/QUOTE]
Really just dropping a hot take. But there is a smidge of potential truth. If you are looking into this category. It means you should have some game. You just want the ball to go further.
Taking off on a plane to Denver. Will discuss further in a couple hours..
OK i listened to all of it
One thing i wish it would have gone more into for me is the main question of loft debates
"Why can't a modern designed iron at 36-37 degrees still be called a 7 iron?"
This is the question i have been asking on internet forums since like 2008 and i have never once gotten a good answer. I understand that technology has changed, i understand newer clubs change elements like launch and spin. I get all that….What i have never understood is why an OEM can't just say "Your new 7 iron launches higher than the old one and that is a good thing". We have improved your 7 iron launch from 16 degrees to 18 degrees and this will help your stopping power on greens
But no, they all just turned a 7 iron into a 32 degree club (or less). Why? We all know the answer to that. To win the battle in the LM bays at Dicks sporting goods. We are not children.
Another thing i have said for years is that "lofts" haven't changed, only the number on the club has. Clubs still generally go from 21 degrees to 50 degrees in 8 irons. We call what used to be a 6 iron, now a 7 iron. Why does improved launch, changes in spin characteristics etc, necessitate calling the club something else? It can't still be a 6 iron with different launch parameters?
The ONLY high level spec difference in a 36 degree club from 1987 and today is maybe a 1/4-1/2 inch difference in shaft length. We're to believe that all of this tech that has changed, would crumble and be pointless if the club were 1/2 inch different in length? Cause guys will say "A modern 7 iron at 36 degrees wouldn't work" oh yea? Than why does an 8 iron at 36 degrees work? the 1/4 inch difference in shaft length is what is holding this all together?
Change in tech is real, loft jacking was done to win sim bay wars…..it's not complicated.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266644, member: 53139″]
In reality how much more playable is a players distance iron than a standard CB?
For example. Is the mizuno m15 really more playable than the 3DP tours?
[/QUOTE]
Based on sole size quite a bit more in my opinion depending on who is using them.
And which one of those isn’t the distance iron?
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266657, member: 68350″]
OK i listened to all of it
One thing i wish it would have gone more into for me is the main question of loft debates
[I]”Why can’t a modern designed iron at 36-37 degrees still be called a 7 iron?”[/I]
This is the question i have been asking on internet forums since like 2008 and i have never once gotten a good answer. I understand that technology has changed, i understand newer clubs change elements like launch and spin. I get all that….What i have never understood is why an OEM can’t just say “Your new 7 iron launches higher than the old one and that is a good thing”. We have improved your 7 iron launch from 16 degrees to 18 degrees and this will help your stopping power on greens
But no, they all just turned a 7 iron into a 32 degree club (or less). Why? We all know the answer to that. To win the battle in the LM bays at Dicks sporting goods. We are not children.
Another thing i have said for years is that “lofts” haven’t changed, only the number on the club has. Clubs still generally go from 21 degrees to 50 degrees in 8 irons. We call what used to be a 6 iron, now a 7 iron. Why does improved launch, changes in spin characteristics etc, necessitate calling the club something else? It can’t still be a 6 iron with different launch parameters?
The ONLY high level [I]spec [/I]difference in a 36 degree club from 1987 and today is maybe a 1/4-1/2 inch difference in shaft length. We’re to believe that all of this tech that has changed, would crumble and be pointless if the club were 1/2 inch different in length? Cause guys will say “A modern 7 iron at 36 degrees wouldn’t work” oh yea? Than why does an 8 iron at 36 degrees work? the 1/4 inch difference in shaft length is what is holding this all together?
Change in tech is real, loft jacking was done to win sim bay wars…..it’s not complicated.
[/QUOTE]
We don’t always agree, but, yes.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266543, member: 53139″]
[USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] distance irons may not be about ego. But players distance irons are 100% about ego. lol!!!
[/QUOTE]
the funny thing about this, is that it takes an ego to believe that a ‘players distance’ iron requires an ego to fit a player.
As a high ball hitter who adds loft at contact, I absolutely love aggressive lofting in irons. I hate that there aren’t more player CBs that welcome aggressive lofts vs the more traditional lofts. Where we are starting to see Launch spec type irons for the more forgiving club segments, I’d love to see them incorporate even more player based irons that are aggressive lofts.
The pissing match over who is the biggest hitter is a mockery to best fitting.
that’s a wild claim from Tox saying he’s got 200ish yards on a forgiving 7 iron and 150ish with a blade.
I’d love to see the numbers showing the difference.
I think Hawk nailed one of the bigger issues on distance producing irons – the lack of spin production. I guessed the same as tox when he asked to guess spin rate, as I’ve seen that a fair bit. Brutal when you’re trying to land it soft or spin it greenside.
You have to wonder whether we’re going to see the same transitional discussion on irons as we’ve seen from drivers over the last 5-10 years. Moving away from distance and leaning more into overall performance.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266770, member: 2320″]
that’s a wild claim from Tox saying he’s got 200ish yards on a forgiving 7 iron and 150ish with a blade.
I’d love to see the numbers showing the difference.
[/QUOTE]
This was a quite a few years back so no numbers but I was hitting the original Forged Tec X 7 iron 190-200yds. I have since learned that if I want to play an iron of that type I need to bend them weak as I do not launch or spin those type of irons nearly enough without doing so.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266770, member: 2320″]
that’s a wild claim from Tox saying he’s got 200ish yards on a forgiving 7 iron and 150ish with a blade.
I’d love to see the numbers showing the difference.
[/QUOTE]
to me the wildest was [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] getting 3800rpm with a 7-iron.
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[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14266788, member: 5944″]
This was a quite a few years back so no numbers but I was hitting the original Forged Tec X 7 iron 190-200yds. I have since learned that if I want to play an iron of that type I need to bend them weak as I do not launch or spin those type of irons nearly enough without doing so.
[/QUOTE]
I completely believe it. I’d also believe that you’re selling yourself way short on the MBs in this example unless you’re hitting them like garbage lmao
It’s something I’ve been exploring recently in the sim – what three different 8 irons look like when the fit is bad (someone else’s club), when the style is different, and when it’s fully optimized. I’ve definitely not come close to 50 yards of difference on carry, but it’s been shocking for sure.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266801, member: 68350″]
to me the wildest was [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] getting 3800rpm with a 7-iron.
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Really? Low spin for golfers who don’t launch the ball is very unsurprising to me. Shallow + deloft = Wakefield vibes for sure.
Very iron dependant I would guess.
The ZX4 mkiis I had were nukes and the 7i I played at 195-200
The ZXiR 7i is more around 180 for me.
While current Exotic MBs seem to be 165-170ish.
Looping it back to the topic that ZXiR 7i is 28.5* and the MB is 32* 🙃
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266806, member: 2320″]
Really? Low spin for golfers who don’t launch the ball is very unsurprising to me. Shallow + deloft = Wakefield vibes for sure.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never played with Ryan, it just sounded so low. I’m very low spin (fitters also tell me this all the time) and i am about 5300-5500 with a 7 iron.
So i was waiting to hear his own answer when he asked about how a 7-iron should stop on the green.
At my launch and spin, a green with a stimp of say 10.5-11—i am running out 6-10 feet a lot of the time
A couple of weeks ago in an event i hit 7 iron from 195 out of the rough, expecting to carry it about 170 to a super deep pin. I would imagine that shot probably had around 3000rpm
[QUOTE=”baylrballa, post: 14266808, member: 52381″]
Very iron dependant I would guess.
The ZX4 mkiis I had were nukes and the 7i I played at 195-200
The ZXiR 7i is more around 180 for me.
While current Exotic MBs seem to be 165-170ish.
Looping it back to the topic that ZXiR 7i is 28.5* and the MB is 32* 🙃
[/QUOTE]
I’m not here to debate what you’re capable of, but it’s still 25 yards vs 50 which is what had me going all 😳
That’s why I’d love to see the numbers – it’s wild.