Few topics get golfers fired up quite like loft jacking. Iron lofts have become stronger over the years, leading to plenty of comments about a modern 7-iron really being a 6-iron. But is looking at the number on the bottom of the club really that simple?
In Episode 9 of Splitting Fairways, Hawk and Jeremy tackle the loft-jacking debate and why stronger lofts aren’t necessarily good or bad.
Why Have Iron Lofts Become Stronger?
Modern iron construction has changed dramatically. Hollow-body designs, thinner faces, lower centers of gravity, and improved materials have allowed manufacturers to create irons that produce more ball speed while still launching the ball high enough to be playable.

For Hawk, that combination of added distance and forgiveness can be a major benefit. If a stronger-lofted 7-iron launches high, carries farther, and still has enough stopping power to hold a green, does it really matter what loft is stamped on the spec sheet?
Jeremy looks at things a little differently. As a golfer who already generates plenty of speed, chasing additional distance with an iron can create more problems than it solves. Spin, peak height, distance control, descent angle, and proper gapping throughout the set may be far more important than simply hitting a 7-iron farther.
Does Loft Jacking Really Matter?
Of course, stronger lofts can create other issues. The race to build the longest 7-iron can lead to larger gaps at the bottom of the bag and the need for additional wedges. At the same time, many of these distance-focused irons also provide forgiveness that can make the game easier for a wide range of golfers.
Maybe the loft-jacking debate doesn’t need a winner. Instead of worrying about whether your 7-iron has the loft of an old 6-iron, the better question might be whether it produces the launch, spin, height, forgiveness, consistency, and distance your game actually needs.
The loft-jacking debate is officially over. Well, at least until the comments open.
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depending on how I frame it 35-40 from the ZX4 -> tour edge MB
I could see where the 50yard number could come from but it would be a very extreme example.
I'm usually telling @jdtox his opinions are bad, so I thought i'd back him up for once.
[QUOTE=”baylrballa, post: 14266830, member: 52381″]
depending on how I frame it 35-40 from the ZX4 -> tour edge MB
I could see where the 50yard number could come from but it would be a very extreme example.
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I could create a 35 yard sample with the same iron if I hit enough balls. I’m not sure what the gain is talking about extremes.
I agree. I don't think it's anything more than 5-10% on average, not including loft difference.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266802, member: 2320″]
I completely believe it. I’d also believe that you’re selling yourself way short on the MBs in this example unless you’re hitting them like garbage lmao
It’s something I’ve been exploring recently in the sim – what three different 8 irons look like when the fit is bad (someone else’s club), when the style is different, and when it’s fully optimized. I’ve definitely not come close to 50 yards of difference on carry, but it’s been shocking for sure.
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Odds are I was hitting them poorly, again it was a few years back. That being said we are talking a 29* 7-iron compared to what I think was a 34* 7-iron. Add in low spin to the equation and you have a bunch of distance.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266801, member: 68350″]
to me the wildest was [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] getting 3800rpm with a 7-iron.
[ATTACH type=”full” alt=”wakefield.gif”]9456805[/ATTACH]
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I mean, that’s kinda what I see with my King Tec X 😬
I will never understand how some people struggled so mightily holding greens with their 5 and 6 iron, to the point that the modern 7 iron means it’s impossible.
[QUOTE=”Mayor McCheese, post: 14266856, member: 76034″]
I mean, that’s kinda what I see with my King Tec X 😬
[/QUOTE]
Out of the rough that must be very tough to gauge distances.
I wonder if the forgiveness aspect has jumped the shark at some spin levels to where the added forgiveness is counteracted by such low spin that the club might not be a net benefit
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14266692, member: 3″]
Based on sole size quite a bit more in my opinion depending on who is using them.
And which one of those isn’t the distance iron?
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Is the 3DP considered a distance iron? Honest question. Didn’t think it was.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266752, member: 2320″]
the funny thing about this, is that it takes an ego to believe that a ‘players distance’ iron requires an ego to fit a player.
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[IMG alt=”Math Reaction GIF by IFHT Films”]https://media2.giphy.com/media/lHfxDepSGlzom6f65K/200.gif[/IMG]
Watching this now.
For me its all about height, not just distance.
I remember 19 years ago when I always played with my neighbors. This was back when I was still playing my Ping Zings. He had just bought a brand new set of Callaway irons and he wanted me to try them. They went about 7 yd further than my 7-iron but they flew so low I could not stop them on greens. To me they were worthless, lots of roll but little stopping power.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266752, member: 2320″]
the funny thing about this, is that it takes an ego to believe that a ‘players distance’ iron requires an ego to fit a player.
[/QUOTE]
I fully admit this. I also am not opposed to playing a distance iron to maintain my ego.
I need myself one of those 175 yard 7 irons baby! But seriously, I think Jeremy referred to this, isn’t it really the dispersion between each club more important than whatever the loft is? My 7i goes @ 148 yards average, but my irons are 1/2″ shorter and I choke down another 1/2″ on my clubs. I get great height, plenty of spin and stop on the green is usually 2-3 feet max. And me trying to judge an iron based solely on lofts is really hard.
[QUOTE=”4hourrule, post: 14266959, member: 65714″]
Watching this now.
For me its all about height, not just distance.
I remember 19 years ago when I always played with my neighbors. This was back when I was still playing my Ping Zings. He had just bought a brand new set of Callaway irons and he wanted me to try them. They went about 7 yd further than my 7-iron but they flew so low I could not stop them on greens. To me they were worthless, lots of roll but little stopping power.
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I can’t recall if it’s Ryan or Jeremy who brings up descent angle but it does come up.
Descent angle can cure a lot of spin problems. I mean if you spin a 7 iron 4500rpm but hit it to the moon, it will stop on a green similar to a lower launched ball with higher spin.
A lot of my fittings revolve around how do i hit a 4-6 iron higher since my main issue is holding greens from like 180+
Also a reason i have really struggled with players distance. AI150 were some of the most fun irons i’ve ever hit on the range, tho
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14266950, member: 53139″]
Is the 3DP considered a distance iron? Honest question. Didn’t think it was.
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What would the 3DP Tour be classified as, if not players distance?
[QUOTE=”Meryn, post: 14266969, member: 86338″]
I need myself one of those 175 yard 7 irons baby! But seriously, I think Jeremy referred to this, isn’t it really the dispersion between each club more important than whatever the loft is? My 7i goes @ 148 yards average, but my irons are 1/2″ shorter and I choke down another 1/2″ on my clubs. I get great height, plenty of spin and stop on the green is usually 2-3 feet max. And me trying to judge an iron based solely on lofts is really hard.
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You know you might get even more spin if you tried a box set, floral patterned set of pink-shafted “ladies” clubs 🙂
Jeremy did bring up a good point that hitting a ball further has a point on the inverted U-Curve where it stops being productive for many. a 210yd 7-iron is great , but if you can do that you are probably never hitting a 5-iron. And a 70 degree wedge has limited use. I guess it would save you money on clubs since you could use a 7 club bag
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266971, member: 68350″]
I can’t recall if it’s Ryan or Jeremy who brings up descent angle but it does come up.
Descent angle can cure a lot of spin problems. I mean if you spin a 7 iron 4500rpm but hit it to the moon, it will stop on a green similar to a lower launched ball with higher spin.
A lot of my fittings revolve around how do i hit a 4-6 iron higher since my main issue is holding greens from like 180+
Also a reason i have really struggled with players distance. AI150 were some of the most fun irons i’ve ever hit on the range, tho
[/QUOTE]
Agreed on decent angle. A couple ways to get there.
I just believe back when I tried the Callaway there was not the weight real low causing Ball to climb so we need to deloft to keep it in Window. The Callaway were low Burners that kept going.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14266988, member: 3″]
What would the 3DP Tour be classified as, if not players distance?
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Just a players iron? It’s one degree stronger than the zxi7 irons which I don’t believe are considered distance irons.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14267017, member: 53139″]
Just a players iron? It’s one degree stronger than the zxi7 irons which I don’t believe are considered distance irons.
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So is that the only determining factor anymore?
I am not a category person and I think too many “strong players” get up in arms over this, and yes I firmly believe that. It’s them and the skyfisters and the rest dont give a fuck. They just want to know where the ball is going.
But if sole size, blade length, actual design are meaningless and loft is the determination than honestly people are further gone than I thought.
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266998, member: 68350″]
You know you might get even more spin if you tried a box set, floral patterned set of pink-shafted “ladies” clubs 🙂
[/QUOTE]
That’s my Sunday bag!
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14266919, member: 68350″]
Out of the rough that must be very tough to gauge distances.
I wonder if the forgiveness aspect has jumped the shark at some spin levels to where the added forgiveness is counteracted by such low spin that the club might not be a net benefit
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I have seen some big jumpers that launch over the green lately
Great video guys. I can definitely see both sides of the issue here and I’m fine being on both sides simultaneously. Establish your height, flight, carry (and spin if you’re able to measure that) and play the club that fits the shot. Though I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t cool having someone be “wow-ed” or whatever because you hit an 8i 165 vs them having to hit their 7i or 6i for the same shot. Ultimately, did it get to the target? If so, who cares what you hit to get it there. Reproduce it for subsequent shots. Golf.
I’d love to get a custom set of irons with just loft numbers on them – like wedges. That way when someone asks – “bro what’d you hit there?” dropping a “31 degree” as a response would be a fun time (for me anyway). I think it would help eliminate some of the whistle measuring that occurs on the course (and not just the sim bay wars).
[QUOTE=”Mayor McCheese, post: 14267042, member: 76034″]
I have seen some big jumpers that launch over the green lately
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On a firm day you are probably coming out of the rough with 2800-2900rpm, you’d likely need to land short of greens with anything 7 iron or shorter for sure.
My spin is a bit higher but we have a couple of holes where i don’t even attempt to hit the green, since i am coming in with 5-6 iron to a redan. My distance is basically yardage to the flag than subtract 20
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14267055, member: 68350″]
On a firm day you are probably coming out of the rough with 2800-2900rpm, you’d likely need to land short of greens with anything 7 iron or shorter for sure.
My spin is a bit higher but we have a couple of holes where i don’t even attempt to hit the green, since i am coming in with 5-6 iron to a redan. My distance is basically yardage to the flag than subtract 20
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Yeah, 27° 7 iron is a bit much for me now that I’m actually striking the ball more better 🤣
[QUOTE=”MtlJeff, post: 14267055, member: 68350″]
On a firm day you are probably coming out of the rough with 2800-2900rpm, you’d likely need to land short of greens with anything 7 iron or shorter for sure.
My spin is a bit higher but we have a couple of holes where i don’t even attempt to hit the green, since i am coming in with 5-6 iron to a redan. My distance is basically yardage to the flag than subtract 20
[/QUOTE]
That is completely dependent on angle of descent and even more so, on an individuals angle of attack and impact location.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267066, member: 3″]
That is completely dependent on angle of descent and even more so, on an individuals angle of attack and impact location.
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This is definitely true, and it’s why I was ok with these last year. I had a big swipe swing and launched them way up in the air. A 48° land angle kept things under control. Now I’m launching them lower and it’s tougher to hold greens.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267030, member: 3″]
So is that the only determining factor anymore?
I am not a category person and I think too many “strong players” get up in arms over this, and yes I firmly believe that. It’s them and the skyfisters and the rest dont give a f**k. They just want to know where the ball is going.
But if sole size, blade length, actual design are meaningless and loft is the determination than honestly people are further gone than I thought.
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There is 100% a design difference. That’s why I didn’t think the 3DP tours were considered players distance irons. I think of players distance being fast faced in a smaller package. Honestly it’s more about design intent in my mind than loft. That’s why I picked those two irons as a comparison. I have not spent a lot of time with the 3DP irons but in my limited time i didn’t get players distance from them.
Another cobra iron, the long tours. Which has stronger lofts than the 3DP irons I also wouldn’t consider a players distance iron. For the same reasons.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14266350, member: 5944″]
The look on [USER=1193]@Hawk[/USER] face when I said I want my ball to stop within 3 feet :ROFLMAO:
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After you mentioned that, I think on the 3DP Tour thread, I’ve been really paying attention to how far from my alleged ball mark the ball ends up. Sometimes it’s a foot and sometimes it’s 3 feet. I think the ones that end up that close probably hopped and spun back a little bit (even with firm summer greens). However, my Tours start with a 47* PW and are all 2* weak – both for a little more bounce and I like a nice high ball flight.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14267082, member: 53139″]
There is 100% a design difference. That’s why I didn’t think the 3DP tours were considered players distance irons. I think of players distance being fast faced in a smaller package. Honestly it’s more about design intent in my mind than loft. That’s why I picked those two irons as a comparison. I have not spent a lot of time with the 3DP irons but in my limited time i didn’t get players distance from them.
Another cobra iron, the long tours. Which has stronger lofts than the 3DP irons I also wouldn’t consider a players distance iron. For the same reasons.
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If 3DP Tours aren’t players distance, categories shouldn’t even exist.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267101, member: 3″]
If 3DP Tours aren’t players distance, categories shouldn’t even exist.
[/QUOTE]
10-4.
@Templet0n one of these is the 3DP tour and the other is the Titleist 250
Based on those different categories, throw around, the 250 would be considered game improvement by just about everybody. And I believe it’s slightly larger than the tour, but I think this image illustrates, that I think most people basic strictly on loft or what the cavity looks like
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267101, member: 3″]
If 3DP Tours aren’t players distance, categories shouldn’t even exist.
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Honestly, people get WAAAAAY too wrapped up in titles for irons. I don’t care what category they‘re in if they work
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267128, member: 3″]
[USER=53139]@Templet0n[/USER] one of these is the 3DP tour and the other is the Titleist 250
Based on those different categories, throw around, the 250 would be considered game improvement by just about everybody. And I believe it’s slightly larger than the tour, but I think this image illustrates, that I think most people basic strictly on loft or what the cavity looks like
[ATTACH type=”full” alt=”IMG_4438.jpeg”]9456818[/ATTACH]
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I think we are aligned. I guess I just didn’t consider the 3DP in the distance category.
[QUOTE=”Templet0n, post: 14267147, member: 53139″]
I think we are aligned. I guess I just didn’t consider the 3DP in the distance category.
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It’s honestly why I am not a fan of categories at all. But I realize I am in the minority and I am okay with that.
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267156, member: 3″]
It’s honestly why I am not a fan of categories at all. But I realize I am in the minority and I am okay with that.
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I agree. But even if there was not marketing designed categories. It would happen naturally by association.
Good job, I gave you a like and a comment on YouTube.
When I go to get fit for irons loft is not even a thought for me. I want the best looking irons, so something else that is vain but at least I own it. I personally don’t care about most of the numbers just if it fits my gaps. I am getting close to 50 so I assume I am going to have to go back to loft jacked irons eventually and I will do it with no hesitation. I just want there to be a gap between irons and I know what that gap is. It really isn’t much more difficult than that.
Here is what I want from my irons.
1. Minimum dispersion.
2. Proper gapping.
3. Minimal difference between carry and total distance on anything from a 5-9 iron.
These are the clubs you use primarily for approach shots. It’s all about having the tool that allows you to get as close to your target as possible (variations introduced by the player holding the club notwithstanding).
[QUOTE=”echico, post: 14267169, member: 6774″]
Good job, I gave you a like and a comment on YouTube.
When I go to get fit for irons loft is not even a thought for me. I want the best looking irons, so something else that is vain but at least I own it. I personally don’t care about most of the numbers just if it fits my gaps. I am getting close to 50 so I assume I am going to have to go back to loft jacked irons eventually and I will do it with no hesitation. I just want there to be a gap between irons and I know what that gap is. It really isn’t much more difficult than that.
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[IMG alt=”Look At Me Smile GIF by FanDuel”]https://media2.giphy.com/media/1qenYHgA3O4D1avD0n/200.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=”leftshot, post: 14267193, member: 38922″]
Here is what I want from my irons.
1. Minimum dispersion.
2. Proper gapping.
3. Minimal difference between carry and total distance on anything from a 5-9 iron.
These are the clubs you use primarily for approach shots. It’s all about having the tool that allows you to get as close to your target as possible (variations introduced by the player holding the club notwithstanding).
[/QUOTE]
Curious if you listened to this episode as of yet?
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267249, member: 3″]
Curious if you listened to this episode as of yet?
[/QUOTE]
Listened to it all the way through.
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14267246, member: 5944″]
[IMG alt=”Look At Me Smile GIF by FanDuel”]https://media2.giphy.com/media/1qenYHgA3O4D1avD0n/200.gif[/IMG]
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Always appreciate seeing Kay Adams
[QUOTE=”JB, post: 14267156, member: 3″]
It’s honestly why I am not a fan of categories at all. But I realize I am in the minority and I am okay with that.
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I believed in categories until joining here and learning. There are so many variables that yield products that work for an individual.
Thing is, I play golf just fine with my spin rate 🤷♂️
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14267345, member: 1193″]
Thing is, I play golf just fine with my spin rate 🤷♂️
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Good enough. But could you be better with more spin?
[QUOTE=”Lord Tox, post: 14267367, member: 5944″]
Good enough. But could you be better with more spin?
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Maybe, but man – it’s really low on the priority list imo.
If I play my T350s with an AVX, things get rolly. If I play them with an X, things get sticky.
I really need to watch this later today! I’m hoping to learn a thing or two.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14267371, member: 1193″]
Maybe, but man – it’s really low on the priority list imo.
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And you can get more by ball, impact, grass, playing in different conditions, etc.
Its hte most destructible data point on its own that exists, because its low hanging fruit.
[QUOTE=”Canadan, post: 14266763, member: 2320″]
As a high ball hitter who adds loft at contact, I absolutely love aggressive lofting in irons. I hate that there aren’t more player CBs that welcome aggressive lofts vs the more traditional lofts. Where we are starting to see Launch spec type irons for the more forgiving club segments, I’d love to see them incorporate even more player based irons that are aggressive lofts.
The pissing match over who is the biggest hitter is a mockery to best fitting.
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I love this statement.
I will never pretend that I am good enough to hit something like a 3DP MB, but I KNOW for a fact that with how I deliver the club, even if I was a precise ball striker, I would give up a fair amount of distance with a 35* 7 iron. There are times where I still feel like I lose distance with a 31* 7 iron because I add loft at impact and hit the ball super high.
It would be awesome to see some aggressive lofts in MB style irons.
[QUOTE=”LeftyGolferWI, post: 14267400, member: 77319″]
I love this statement.
I will never pretend that I am good enough to hit something like a 3DP MB, but I KNOW for a fact that with how I deliver the club, even if I was a precise ball striker, I would give up a fair amount of distance with a 35* 7 iron. There are times where I still feel like I lose distance with a 31* 7 iron because I add loft at impact and hit the ball super high.
It would be awesome to see some aggressive lofts in MB style irons.
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I loved the Titleist T100s when I had them. Not fully blade, but really awesome.
[QUOTE=”Hawk, post: 14266502, member: 1193″]
While companies are offering HL options, they definitely aren’t backing off the baseline completely.
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One of my pet peeves is OEMs cheesed***ing it by bending their core model irons 2° weak and calling them “HL”, with no other changes (weight distribution, COG, etc.) being made. That’s not an HL iron set, that’s a core iron set bent 2° weak.