Having written that title a couple of times previously over the last decade, the latest single car accident happened this morning in the LA area. Details are slow to come out, but Woods was rushed to the hospital with multiple leg injuries. LAPD confirmed that the injuries were not life threatening.
The forum community has been active in the discussion and you can join in below in the comments section.
My previous reply states all of the same. Once OVI was out, and it was day one at the first press conference even if he was, it’s a medical issue even if he just fell asleep behind the wheel.
And yes it’s HIPAA and in my line of work it’s damn embarrassing to say HIPPA. But once I mistype it once, it’s there for good unless I correct it, ?.
I know I haven’t.
I also know the guy who took us out in Tampa didn’t haha
Exactly. First responders would have smelled alcohol and I guarantee he was pupil checked. If for no other reason they need to know if he’s on something for anesthesia.
Sometimes accidents are accidents. Always caused by a certain negligence but who here hasn’t sprayed a golf ball at a house and prayed you don’t hear something breaking? Negligence. **** happens. I hope he recovers fully. That IS what’s important.
Society up and down is consumed by anger.
Still believe it is highly likely he was looking at his phone.
I am in my car for work and drive quite a bit and it is shocking how many people still do that, even though it is highly illegal. I have cut back quite a bit doing it myself, but I would be lying if I said I never do it anymore.
I wonder if the deputies are really concerned about his activity on his phone prior to/during accident? Would they have seized Joe Schmo’s phone? And not Tiger’s phone? I think that is plausible.
All, so true. You and I have posted about the possible contribution of a road design issue. The main point, though, is that the prevailing use of sound bites, professional/expert ”opinions” that so often are flawed on their face, etc. become fodder for this rampant anger and finger pointing that seems so prevalent in our society now. It truly baffles me why so many want to find the negative in most things when there is so much good all around us in abundance.
There, done with my rant and apologies to @JB if this came anywhere near a line for the forum.
I agree with this. IF and only IF and when charges are filed, misdemeanor or felony, then they are, and should be public record. Until then, it doesn’t have to be public knowledge.
What information does a black box of a vehicle have that would reveal why Tiger lost control of his vehicle? Make a list of this information and something on the list was the cause.
Pretty sure he was trolling. He seems to pop up once in a while and spout off.
In my case I wasn’t and it was legally provable. The phone was on my passenger floor. I always put it on my passenger seat in the car if no passenger. I can voice text, voice call, whatever. I don’t have to touch it.
I wasn’t on it. I zoned out. Sometimes stuff happens. Like I’ve stated before, maybe he had a seizure? A certain pain med can cause that if you suddenly stop taking that.
Why do we want to attach blame? The poor guy was hurt, possibly GOAT (1 or 2) career ending type hurt. He was deemed fit by first responders. He hurt no one else. **** happens. Phone or asleep, who cares? Let’s hope he can recover and one day be in contention again on Sunday. Or at least be able to have a mostly normal rest of his life.
I’m able to by the grace of god. There are things I can’t do anymore. But they are minor in the scheme.
You have to agree that this is a bit of a different situation right? Tiger is not you and me. The super high profile of it all changes the rules a little right or wrong. When it becomes national news for weeks after it happened. It seems to me there is a bit of a responsibility to close the story one way or another. I understand and agree Tiger has rights and they should be preserved. But this was shoved down our throats for days on every new channel there was and there appears as there often is with the news these days that there are a lot of inconsistencies.
I feel like I’m in my first semester Torts class again. ?
Great explanation.
I agree with the use of sound bites and so called experts weighing in with their opinions ( which I would have no problem with if they actually put in the work and knew what they were talking about). I don’t think this is recent I think it has been around for a while. Looking back at the O.J. case I think that was the beginning of so many people pretending to have an expert opinion in the media and being clueless as to what they were talking about. In 1995 I got involved in a case which went to trial in 1999. It was high profile from the beginning in that the media had an interest in it and i was always amazed having been involved in it as to the absolute inaccuracy of the reporting. Even the trial having been there and heard the testimony since I was one of the two trial lawyers for the plaintiffs estate ( this occurred during a window when cameras in New York although they had been were no longer allowed in the Courtroom ) I was always disappointed at the complete inaccurate reporting on what actually happened or what was said. Even pre trial motions which were public record and filed when reported on there were two types of reporters. Those who actually went to the clerks office and read the papers ( which included expert reports and affidavits and transcripts of actual depositions) and those who didn’t. I guess one of the reasons I am so sensitive to this was after the accident happened Ted Koppels Nightline crew came to Town to do a story on the accident and a young woman named Cynthia Wiggins who was crushed by a dump truck crossing a dangerous intersection just trying to get to work at the Walden Galleria Mall. She later died of her injuries. The producer repeatedly called me trying to get me to do an interview which I declined because I had an investigation going and had no intention of telling them or going on National TV and alerting the Mall as to what we were thinking or doing. Every time I see a lawyer do that I shake my head.When the show aired they did a hatchet job on Cynthia it was despicable and disgraceful and to this day I am angered by what they did to this young woman. Called her an unwed mother and jaywalker and portrayed her as worthless. In the end they were proven wrong. so its not just celebrities they do this to. No matter who it is its is unfair and it is wrong.
But if he rolled his car – wherever his phone is by the time authorities get to him isn’t relevant.
I am not sure how along authorities are in determining when/where/if a person’s use of phone in a car where an accident has occurred, but I do believe they can investigate such matters. The question is, did they investigate such matters for Tiger?
phones have time records. It would be pretty easy to determine if he was on the phone or texting at the time.. I dont want a negative aspect brought to light, but I would love to know (as I think we all do) the reason for the crash. I understand, it is really none of my business, but the media has made it everyone business and interest.
So in the end. Blame the media, which is complete trash..
I generally agree with you. Just because someone is high profile and it makes the news and is shoved down our throats, doesnthst give him less privacy rights?
Dude can’t go anywhere without being recognized. Should he have to share details of his private life that he doesn’t want to (right now anyways)?
If you fell asleep driving due to a medical condition would you want it known to everyone? Would you maybe not want it known?
Totally agree. I acknowledge a double standard of a sort but Tiger gets a lot of double standards thrown his way as well. Due to his popularity and greatness.
Absolutely. It is different. Im just not sure I understand the premise of the double standard…Its only a double standard if something different is happening to us and it doesnt that I can see.
But why? Why would you want to know? Is his private life any of our damn business? I’m not getting upset, I’m just asking. He hurt no one else and I’m sure can cover property damages if self insured.
I don’t get it. Yeah there was media hype, big story. But it’s none of our damn business what happened if it’s covered by privacy laws.
Im not sure I agree with that.
He hurt nobody else but himself during his DUI, but I am pretty sure it mattered and it should. It can help understand the dangers that exist and possibly have a positive spin on the other side.
Its a fair question. I want to know because it is Tiger Freaking Woods lol.. I am hoping genuinely that it was a simple mistake and nothing else. I would like to know one way or the other.
You are preaching to the choir here.
If Tiger wasn’t on his phone, and the deputies determined that, they should say that.
that’s fair, if that’s the case then I don’t think we can assume that he was on prescription medication. I hadn’t seen that interview and just had gone off of the official press release date.
and as for my take, personally I want Tiger to have a speedy recovery just like everyone else. I also don’t want to see him in jail. I’m not trying to radiate negativity. However this is a golf forum that’s made for speculation and conversation on golf topics. I’m not going to filter my posts to pander to political correctness. Not necessarily saying that’s what you are saying, but I don’t think I’m being out of line speculating the cause of the accident. If medication did play a role I’m not dwelling on it to spite Tiger. Painkiller addiction is very common for people with severe back pain and it has already been a part of Tigers life. My concern isn’t with tarnishing his reputation, but instead just hoping that if it is something he was still struggling with that he would be open to accepting help. Which he has proven he doesn’t like help from anyone.
I will happily be proven wrong if painkillers played 0 role in this accident. But as long as the details of the crash are ambiguous, coupled with Tigers history I do think there is still a possibility that they did play a role in this. Although I do appreciate your article as I admit it is far less likely that this is the case if the procedure took place a month prior to what I had thought.
That is a great question. I haven’t come across that yet but I will try to find out. It was 70 degrees here Tuesday but snowing lightly now. If it clears up for the weekend and we golf one of the guys in my group is a retired NYS Trooper who now Is an accident reconstruction expert. I will ask him if he plays because I really want to know the answer to that.
All I was doing was pointing out when someone had put a date on a back surgery rather than when news of it was released. I knew I had read it somewhere and when I found it again, I wanted to add it to the conversation. For all I know, he could have had another procedure shortly before the January 19 press release.
I understand that Tiger has a history with pain and related medications and think that, if he was still on them, it is problematic, but not necessarily causative. I guess I’ve been a lawyer too long and sometimes can be curt or abrasive. That is especially so when tone can’t be conveyed.
I have my own thoughts as to what happened. I’ve gone back and forth on what it could be based on what information I think law enforcement could legally have and what they might have obtained some other way. And, I do understand the Sheriff saying he needs Tiger’s permission to disclose what caused the wreck certainly creates doubt.
Tenputt on Torts. ?
Yes, with computers there is always a trail.
Someone claimed to be a subject matter expert on something, but can’t get an acronym correct and is too lazy to spell check or proofread a post, and I’m a troll? Seems like would want to be correct on. ?
Bieng correct is ovrerated. How else are you giong to laern? On the other hand you can learn a lot people by their reactions to someone’s mistakes.
An incredible amount of cell phone data can be obtained from cell towers. That would almost certainly show whether Tiger was texting or talking to someone. I don’t know if California LEOs can get that without the phone owner’s consent or a search warrant.
But, more to your point, On top of the event data recorders (that have gotten more and more sophisticated and gather more vehicle information before and just after a wreck), newer cars have extensive telematics systems that record a lot of information. Assuming it is activated, I don’t know if Siri or the car’s bluetooth are run through that system or not. With TW’s vehicle being a loaner, the system may not have been activated. Or, it may have been for Genesis’ insurance and product liability purposes.
I have a Chevy Tahoe but did not take OnStar past the trial period. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if GM is nonetheless gathering information relative to its ongoing vehicle analysis and development of other systems. I think the accident reporting and maybe a few other features are not dependent upon an active subscription.
And, at least in a product liability setting, GM and every other car manufacturer will fight you tooth and nail to protect the extent of the information being continuously gathered as you operate the vehicle. If it benefits them in a lawsuit, they’ll throw it at a plaintiff driver/passenger in a heartbeat. If it benefits the plaintiff, they’ll fight to keep it from ever seeing the light of day.
But even though the computer can determine the time of a text can it tell if the text was sent by voice using Siri or if it was done by hand and typed. That is the question I would like to find out the answer to because it would make a difference.
If it was DUI he’d have got one. You’re not likely getting out of one. Those guys know what to look for.
I like a great discussion. All bringing fair points. But would you have cared about “Smiter on THP” if he had the same accident? No. Hopefully you’d send well wishes. But happens to anyone else and no one cares.
I know, multi quote.
I’m not ready to condemn him for DUI on this. I’d think first responders would have reported impairment. Even in tremendous pain they can tell when you’re under the influence or not 90%+ of the time. Not statistical, just from the guys I know.
I don’t think anybody has and I certainly didnt.
That doesn’t mean it should be "nobody’s damn business’ if some good could come out of it.
Let’s say he was texting while driving. I hope he wasn’t and unlike many am not sure, but let’s say he was. It could very much be a game changing awareness to not do such a thing when one of the most recognizable athletes of a generation is nearly killed from it.
It’s okay to want more information and still focus on the positive outcome that could be ahead.
I think this is exactly where I stand. I have no ill intentions or am waiting for the moment I can say "GOTCHA". But when a once maybe ever athlete is almost killed and there appears to be no reason for it. You want to know why..
Hey, there are many more attorneys piping up here than just me. ?
Duly noted and appreciated. I’ll acknowledge @Parrot ,@Elmave and @JMB3 (he posted about Torts class) also. As a practicing attorney for more than 30 years, I have enjoyed the legal related comments in the thread . I have no experience or expertise reagarding negligence but I was involved in prosecution in the past and I have knowledge and experience regarding the prosecution of impaired / intoxicated driving and am familiar with collision reconstruction.
Dewey, Cheatum & Howe, at your service!
We holler for your dollar would be the firm motto.
You cannot look into someone’s eyes and tell if they are on Ambien.
Ambien can cause…
Sleepwalking
Sleep eating
Sleep driving (yes driving)
Sleep shopping (Amazon loves Ambien)
Extreme sense of drowsiness or confusion
Memory loss
Strange nighttime behaviors such as doing laundry, dishes, cleaning the house and others.
I have personally seen all of these done on Ambien and I know that the first responders could not tell if Tiger was impaired due to Ambien.
I’m not saying he was or was not on Ambien and I am no Tiger hater, but I still stand by my opinion that everyone should be accountable for their actions.
If Tiger was on Ambien and he came forward and admitted as being impaired by it, just think of how many lives that might save.
I’m looking at it from the medical side. If they’re not releasing it I assume it’s because it is medically related. If he was texting and driving then I agree with your position.
I’ll stick with none of our damn business if it’s medically related, which I assume it to be.
I think we have the makings of a National THP Law Firm here and don’t forget @Tenputt and the Utah Office.
Offices in every state (and province).
You and I agree a lot more than we disagree. I think it 100% not right to assume that painkillers played any role in this accident. I’ll agree with the assessment of first responders. They check your pupils for signs of opiate use. They have to as it’s critical to the anesthesiologist.
I’m not even saying that he wasn’t 100%, I don’t know. I just feel that’s not something that would be covered up given his history, and I’d hate for someone to speculate based on my history.
(I had an accident on 09/17/19. Broke 9 bones and had 15 hours of emergency surgery where my insides were all on my outside. I became physically dependent on opiates. I realized it about 3 weeks in that I was looking forward too much to my next dose and cut that **** out real fast-I will NEVER take them for more than 3 days straight again-so don’t assume please what once may have been an issue will always be an issue-I beat a 2 year bout of MCD-rare cancer like illness-didn’t take one painkiller due to it but used a lot of THC which I can easily do without).
I worked for NHTSA for 2 years. We were a HIPAA agency. I wouldn’t have known if it was HIPAA or HIPPA ?????
Lol. I’m the HIPAA (right?) compliance officer for 50 employees. I mistyped it, ? Spellcheck probably saved it and it then became correct?
Oh well. If I was smart I’d be golfing right now instead of posting on here.
(Mental note, don’t piss off Tenputt).
100% understand where you are coming from, and as you said you are a testament to not judging an accident on history.
im not gonna stoop to the level of calling this a cover up. You are right I’ll trust the first responders.
However, I know if I’m a first responder and I come up to a devastating crash and in that crash is Tiger Woods who’s life appears in danger. A check of the pupils for opiates is probably not the first thing on the mind. There was so much going on I’m sure with extracting him, and probably trying to get him out quickly before the media showed up that I could see them not administering that. The person who mentions administering a sobriety test for tiger while his legs are shattered is probably received the same as the kid who reminds the teacher we had homework at the end of class.
also this falls into BIG speculation category here. But I still just can’t get over that interview with nantz on Sunday before all this. Watching it live I just remember making what I thought was an innocent joke to my dad, “there’s no way Tiger is feeling any backpain now!” now it feels like terrible dramatic irony.