Off Course is back this week with a fantastic show including discussing iron covers and more. Hosted by Dan Edwards and Rob Miller, each Friday the hosts give you a deep look into the world of golf and equipment in a way unlike any other podcast has done before.
Episode 6 is here and Dan and Rob discuss the following topics:
Myth Busting: Walkers vs Riders
The Sunday Bag
More likely: Next Tiger, or next Daly?
And a Ton More…
As with all podcasts on the THP Radio Network you can catch the episodes a number of ways. Right here on the website, on our Soundcloud channel, and of course our THP Golf Mobile App. You can also subscribe at iTunes and Google Play so you never miss an episode.
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your opinion.
Also, by all means, play with 5 clubs, build a handicap off it, and call it golf – But don’t enter tournaments or events with said handicap and bring the other 9 clubs when you play in them.
Obviously, it’s my opinion. That’s why I posted it.
There’s a fair chance that I might actually play better with less than 14 clubs. Are you saying you disagree with that?
I’m indifferent, despite totally not buying it. Lots of thoughts on the podcast if you feel like listening.
What I am saying, is that handicaps are designed as the great neutralizer… And people who take 8-9 out for some of their rounds they build a handicap off, then switch to a full bag for a competitive round, are not adequately representing their capacity for scoring in their handicap.
Played pretty well today. Shot 78. I didn’t hit all my clubs.
I think it’s a matter of course management and being reactive as opposed to proactive.
If nothing else it’s a maximum constraint that, for the most part, is arbitrary.
the difference between ‘didn’t use all my clubs’ and ‘didn’t have all my clubs’ could make all the difference in the world depending on what conditions come up during your round.
this isn’t about ‘why 14’ it’s about establishing a handicap.
If one of my buddies who doesn’t play in tournaments rolls up to the first tee for my round Saturday and only has 9 clubs because he spent all his extra money on the Sunday bag he’s going to carry, I say all the power to him. Once you start utilizing the handicap system, you must play in the same kind of conditions you would during competitive play to keep it relevant.
i agree with this. I am fully an advocate of find a way to fill your bag with tools to accomplish the task. Even if that means a chipper..
Find something to help you be successful.
I guess I’m not understanding why, though.
Is the rule, in competition, that you MUST play with 14 clubs? Do handicaps only count when playing 14 clubs?
So, while this is opinion, if you want to compete and establish a handicap with less than 14, I don’t see an issue since it’s totally legal.
My thought on this is. What if your 9 club established handicap is 16. Do you not think you could play better with 14 clubs? So in competition you play to a 9 handicap because that 60 degree wedge works a lot better out of the sand than that 9 iron you decided to carry in your minimalist bag. Or now that you actually have a driver you are getting into greens with a lower lofted club etc.
I guess it is an interesting way to sand bag.
Honestly, I don’t know. This is one of those discussions where it’s impossible to tell. Which makes it a fun debate.
All I know is that I don’t hit all of my clubs every round. It’s nice to have them there, certainly.
I think you’re missing my point.
If you want to play ALL your rounds with a certain number of clubs (my tolerance threshold ends far before ‘just a putter’ but whatever), which includes all handicap producing rounds as well as competitive rounds with the same number, no problem.
…my issue is with Sunday bags, where you take a smaller number of clubs out there and score it to your handicap – which could potentially be altering your potential. Note I said "COULD" be.
Would you be okay playing a guy that establishes his handicap with hickory shafts and mashies from the 30s and then rolls up with a brand new set of clubs he practices with?
I make sure I use every club each round. It’s rough when I’ve got a drivable par 4 18th and I realize the 8i is the only club I haven’t hit yet ????
"I play all my practice rounds with blades bruh, it helps me concentrate and improve my ball striking"
For sure. Last year, I tracked over 10 rounds how many times I hit all 14 clubs in my bag. This was play at a few different courses. It was interesting that I think I hit my 6 iron like 2 times or something like that. My point is, don’t just drop the 6 and carry 13 clubs. Find a club that you will use and will help you somewhere else. Add a wedge or hybrid or second driver.
I play all my practice rounds without golf balls. It helps me visualize success.
That’s an interesting view, but I hear you.
I guess it boils down to the question of whether or not this hypothetical golfer could have scored lower had they not been limited. It’s probably a great unknown.
hahahahahahaha – Not sure why, but this cracked me up
I mean… what’s his handicap?
The real question is how many balls does he still lose?? hahaha
I can guarantee, higher than with what he practices with and would be rolling up and playing you with.
The handicap system is based on players creating with the same intent that they would in tournament conditions.
If you carry 9 instead of 14, is it not realistic to assume that gapping issues would be present? How do you pick which ones to leave at home? Do you keep them all out of the bag for your competitive rounds as well? What’s the end goal?
Put it to you this way… if Tommy Morris Wannabe rolls up with some hickories and says he’s a 9, HECK NO I don’t want to play him.
I guess it matters how "good" this hypothetical golfer is.
If said golfer is <10 handicap and only plays 9 clubs, then that is one hell of a golfer. I’m not thinking gapping is that big of an issue… although the risk is certainly there.
As it pertains to Sunday Bags, I always just assumed it was to make the bag lighter.
Eye contact and flawless delivery ?
So, therefore your higher handicap has the larger sandbag potential and you will have to give him strokes based on his established handicap. There is no way to win!
What if this means playing with 13 or less clubs?
then do that. For every single round you play.
I don’t think anyone in here is arguing whether people should be able to do it (again, minus the extremes). Just be consistent about it.
My best round ever, a +4, 75, was accomplished by only using 11 of my 14 clubs onhand. I never hit 5i, 6i, or LW. I could have, arguably, shot better if I hadn’t hit my PW (moving me to 10/14) since it let to one of my bogies.
What if I’ve been playing with 13 clubs and just before the tournament, I pick up a new club that I want to put into play. Is that not kosher since I haven’t played any of my other rounds with it yet?
There’s something to be said about having too many choices.
depends. You feel like that’s fair to others? Handicaps are meant to neutralize, not create advantage.
agreed. The course I play the most. I could realistically play with 11-12 clubs. Maybe 9 if I am playing well. But, if I travel, or play different courses etc. I want to have more options.
There is no rule that says you have to use all your clubs so having 14 vs. 13 wont hurt you. Right?
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There was an older gentleman and his wife who played at my club while I was growing up and they can’t have carried more than 4-5 clubs. They’d take their shots, pick up their tiny bags and jog to the ball. The amazing part is that they were in their late 70’s!
Edit: they did not show up to the club tournaments with cart bags and 14 clubs ?
What if I find a ball that I think I like better than the one I built my handicap with? Can I change that?
Of course, that is no different that changing clubs. Assuming it is conforming go for it. I think you knew that though silly..
Just don’t play with a gutta purcha then switch to a prov for events.
I’d call that progress, which is different than intentional sandbagging. Now if you post scores using one ball with the full intention of playing a tournament with a ball that would allow you to score lower, I’d call that cheating.
For as confusing as handicaps can be, I think fairly establishing one is very easy and actually requires effort to tamper with.
What if I practice with 3A balls because I’m too cheap to use 5A (or new) balls in practice and then use new balls (that presumably have a performance advantage over 3A balls) in the tournament?
… but where is the "line" drawn? What about a Top Flite and a Srixon Z Star XV?
I mean I’m all for that in theory, but someone can just as easily bring all 14 clubs and consciously only play 7 clubs on purpose. Cheaters gunna cheat. At least with it’s easier to distinguish when they are sporting the joggers of golf bags.
As mentioned not yet. But will be soon
How many strokes do you think you’re dropping based on that? If it’s measurable, then it’s not a good indication of your true handicap index.
An index is supposed to be a measure of your potential. If the scores used to establish your index and therefore your potential are not indicative of your actual potential, then it’s not right.
I think that’s more the point here.
Lots of ‘what if’ stuff being presented, but I’m not going to tell people what is honest and what is dishonest – they need to determine that for themselves. I guess the point is, we’re all in this together when we use a handicap to balance. I hope people who use the system respect it the way I do so we’re at a balance come tournament time… and yes I might have more to lose because playing against a handicap rarely if ever benefits me.
You either cheat (the system), or you don’t. It’s pretty simple.