Well ping came up wit perimeter weighting about 30 years ago so no i wouldn't say that was any huge leap in technology. Foam in the heads is for feel only. And taylormade let a batch of clubs out with bad epoxy. You comment on the rest of the companies is true, isaid all of them make their clubs over seas. If you can find better quality in ANY manufacturer then you have used a fine tooth comb or a blind eye. Saw a nike with an exploded compression channel, cobra and callaways with the face coming away from the carbon on their drivers and the same sort of stuff from cleveland. Never seen a straight up iron made of metal without badges really have anything happen to it without extreme circumstances bein involved. Fct is the first real innovation in a while but its basically been around on fitting cart clubs for years so well there ya go. Most people i know, they know who camillo is, very few if any know or care what kind of clubs he uses but most know he wears JL in flashy colors so take that for what its worth. Not many peole play titleist clubs yet they are great clubs and few would argue that fact so why do way more play taylormade? I forgot about this little gem but they pay alot for players to play their clubs each week, the reason you see so many tm drivers in other bags, so yeah maybe camillo isnt getting a ton more in his contract but i bet his incentives are through the roof. THAT is why he went to taylormade not because they have better equipment. He would have picked titleist i think if it were just clubs.
Camilo Villegas Leaving Cobra For Taylormade
Well ping came up wit perimeter weighting about 30 years ago so no i wouldn't say that was any huge leap in technology. Foam in the heads is for feel only. And taylormade let a batch of clubs out with bad epoxy. You comment on the rest of the companies is true, isaid all of them make their clubs over seas. If you can find better quality in ANY manufacturer then you have used a fine tooth comb or a blind eye. Saw a nike with an exploded compression channel, cobra and callaways with the face coming away from the carbon on their drivers and the same sort of stuff from cleveland. Never seen a straight up iron made of metal without badges really have anything happen to it without extreme circumstances bein involved. Fct is the first real innovation in a while but its basically been around on fitting cart clubs for years so well there ya go. Most people i know, they know who camillo is, very few if any know or care what kind of clubs he uses but most know he wears JL in flashy colors so take that for what its worth. Not many peole play titleist clubs yet they are great clubs and few would argue that fact so why do way more play taylormade? I forgot about this little gem but they pay alot for players to play their clubs each week, the reason you see so many tm drivers in other bags, so yeah maybe camillo isnt getting a ton more in his contract but i bet his incentives are through the roof. THAT is why he went to taylormade not because they have better equipment. He would have picked titleist i think if it were just clubs.
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- #227
I completely beg to differ. How about milling grooves, the hybrid/iron, notched and pocket weighting, and so much more. You are giving a disservice to the people that spend millions of hours working on their craft to put out new irons. And if you think foam is ONLY for feel, that is a shame, it actually helps move weight around as well. Game improvement, SGI, and GE clubs as classes is another area where technology has had a huge footprint. Clubmakers such as Hoeffy and others work very hard to change the way golfers can play the game and to gloss over their innovations with a broad stroke is petty and naive. Perimeter weighting of today is very different than it was 30 years ago.
Im not sure where you get some of the info on Camilo, but he is one of the few players that actually has moved the needle ratings wise over the last 24 months.
I can play just as well with an old set of ping eye 2s as any club on the market. Taylormade doesn't mill their wedges or ,at least not on mine, and i spin em just as well as i did my spin mills so why bother milling em? Like i said camillo does move the needle but not the cobra club needle, he just isnt recognized for his play and like someone said earlier he is underrated as a player. I havent seen any real innovation in irons unless you call throwing a high launch 1/2 inch longer shaft in a 5 iron and stamping it a 6 an innovation from ANY complany. Titleist still makes blades the same way they have been for years. Wedge grinds have come a long way but have been on tour for years.
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- #229
Just because older stuff works for you does not mean there is no difference in technology.
Milling grooves and milling faces are two different things. YES, TM DOES MILL THE GROOVES ON THEIR WEDGES, and they were the first to do it, when John Hoeflich was their lead club designer and did it for them.
The fact is they haven't done much to improve anything except drivers and now even drivers have hit a wall. Taylormade has the best marketing but i don't think their clubs are any better than anyone else's. Just my opinion. If you have had some sort of huge gain in the last few years by the technology advances,snicker, then good on ya. Me i prefer to spend my money on what looks the best or feels the best for me cus i can hit em all about the same once they are set up for me. Drivers included nowadays.
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- #231
NO, THAT IS NOT FACT! That is fact for your game. Others have found things recently that have improved their game quite a bit. You keep wanting to paint a broad brush that all things are the same, and frankly that is both untrue and not fair. While it may be teh same for you, it is not for millions of others!
Bridges
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Ya so guess the superfast driver/3 wood that happens to be arguably the hottest driver/3wood on the market right now isnt worth a crap? Oh wait dont forgot the new ghost putter that has won already multiple times on tour and is arguably, wait no is the hottest putter on the market right now? but yet you say they have hit a wall? Oh wait there is more guess that supertri driver isnt any good either, or the r9 irons, or the burner irons. man idk how you can say taylormade clubs have hit a wall.
I said ALL clubs have hit a wall. I have hit the superfast, is it longer, yep because its light as crap and is 46 1/2 inches long. When cut down and with a decent weight shaft in it then its pretty much the same. Do you honestly think they are just gonna come out and say well guys we basically can't make anything better than it already is but we changed the color and styles for ya so come on put your 300 bucks on it! Umm nope they aren't. You ever heard the expression you can't buy a game?
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- #234
Out of curiosity, why do you have all newer clubs? It seems none of them have done anything to improve in recent years. You just said you could hit Ping Eye 2s as good as anything of today, why not play them. Why play i5s? Why play the G15 driver? Why have upgraded shafts in your clubs? Why have ZTP wedges? I mean nothing has changed in irons in 30 years right?
Or perhaps you found certain things that worked better FOR YOU, just as new technology and things have changed games for millions of others.
By the way, last I checked, going light WITH balance, is another new technology. It was tried previously and failed miserably because of bad balance.
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- #236
Companies spend MILLIONS in advertising and marketing each year. They also spend MILLIONS in R&D. If there was no R&D to be done, then they would not spend any money and just pump more into the other areas.
I completely agree with all of that and is basically what i posted and got lambasted over. The fact is some thing DO work better for some people but to claim that one company is superior to another is inaccurate and the leaps and bounds found from technology is lightyears ahead is not correct but again its my opinion and you have yours. I'm just trying to put up my perspective on the whole thing. The original post i should have put IMO but i didn't. however i must say i admire the passion jb and bridges. I just don't agree.
Bridges
New member
So i guess i should play some old clubs from a long time ago because the r9s i play now has absolutely no advantages over them? Are you nuts?
I guess the r5 and r9 drivers are exactly the same thing to?
are you just saying stuff to argue or what? because the whole "they havent made anything better" comment is BS and you know it.
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- #239
By the way, I have NEVER said that Taylormade is ahead of anybody in technology. They certainly have been in some areas. See the hybrid, milling grooves, etc... But I have never said anything of the sort.
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- #240
While I disagre with weezy, he has been respectful in a debate/discussion, lets give him the same treatment back. Thanks.
Bridges
New member
what are you not agreeing with? im so confused now. In one post you say the superfast driver isnt new technology as you can just cut it down and its the same but in the next you agree with jb thats its new technology. Its not meant to be cut down its new technology to make you have faster club head speed and hit the ball farther and not lose accuracy and its doing just that or it would not be on tour.
No im saying i don't think one company is ahead of another no matter the brand. I like ping stuff but am very aware that they are just tweaks to old designs not some new latest and greatest wonder club. My g15 is a great club for me but i hit a Cobra s2 i liked. Imo the last great driver jump in technology was probably the superquad. I hit that driver as well as any new driver on the market. Just my opinion like i said. I have become a little dismayed with companies taking their stuff over seas and feel quality has suffered for it. I kind of think the new groove rule is an attempt to get people off their old irons and wedges as well. Again i could be wrong.
Bridges
New member
i did not answer this earlier. Ask the yankees, they bought a World Series
But in all seriousness arent you buying your game with the clubs that are fitted to you? i mean your paying extra money to have that perfect set of clubs(driver,irons.hybrids,woods,putter) fitted to you so you can knock some strokes off, so id say thats buying a few strokes and strokes in golf is your game.
Uh you do realise that they are just playing the head on their favorite heavy cut down shaft right? I said in recent years drivers have hit a wall. Irons hit one about 30 years ago and are just variations on a very old design. Most taylormade guys still play the 07 burner or the even older vsteel fairways. I think callaway actually started the hybrid deal with the heavenwood unless you count the old raylor.
No it probably costs me strokes because i like jerkin out that big driver and smashin one. I have found new places on the golf course than my old superquad, but unfortunately some of them are deep in the woods haha
Bridges
New member
Go back and find were i said taylormade has better clubs than other companies. You wont be able to find it because i did not say it so thats why i ask what are you disagreeing on? i did not say taylormade had better clubs than another company. I used to play pings, and nike clubs i only recently switched to an all TM bag.
Hanks
On the Fringe
opcorn:
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- #248
That is not really teh case this year. Take a look at this tournament alone. 15 guys including Woody Austin and his 63 today had shafts that were extremely light from the new Miyazaki line. Including 4 players that had the new 39 gram shaft in their bag.
Bridges
New member
alright man im done arguing here, i dont know why you think irons are the same as 30 years ago but thats your call. im going to join the contest going on. Your confusing me.
Bridges
New member
One last comment.
How is this a companys fault and not a user fault for pulling out a club and slicing/hooking one into the woods?