Camilo Villegas Leaving Cobra For Taylormade

[JR]

First, to JB.

Damn, what a post...

To Weezy-

There is a difference. Why do you think ceartain companies are so successful?
1. Great Marketing.
2. Great Product.
3. Tour Representation.

All are nessecary. Do you honestly think my irons will perform better than a set of TM burners? Not just no, but hell no. R & D is there for a reason. Some clubs simply hit further, straighter, and feel better than others. Dont take our word for it though, even though JB has hit thousands of clubs, go see for yourself. Get on a launch moniter with some blades and some r9s. Youll see.

 

[weezy109]

Actually the shaft market is the one place left for a technological improvement. i don't see oems getting miyazakis on their sticks from the factory but i am certainly interested to see how it plays out and if they can get the club to swing right yet just faster then thre might very well be another revolution like the big headed drivers started. I do like the customization available with fct but i don't think it will stick around.

 

[JB]

Actually the shaft market is the one place left for a technological improvement. i don't see oems getting miyazakis on their sticks from the factory but i am certainly interested to see how it plays out and if they can get the club to swing right yet just faster then thre might very well be another revolution like the big headed drivers started. I do like the customization available with fct but i don't think it will stick around.

I think if you were at our Fall Outing, you might see something that would contradict that last statement. Because of embargo dates, I cannot say what it is, but you will be pleasently surprised.

 

[weezy109]

That was a joke. Like i said i can drive the ball just as well with a driver from 5 or 6 years ago as i can now i just prefer to look at something new every now and again. Like clothing, they haven't changed since the stone age but i still like to buy new shiny clothes.

 

[weezy109]

I think if you were at our Fall Outing, you might see something that would contradict that last statement. Because of embargo dates, I cannot say what it is, but you will be pleasently surprised.

Well my concern is while i love the idea alot of people seem to be put off by it and say they never use it etc, so if they can keep the expense down to compete with non adjustables then it may stick around but i;m concerned if the market is there. The superfast not having fct sort of made me think tm might be heading away from it but id like to see whats next.

 

[JB]

Well my concern is while i love the idea alot of people seem to be put off by it and say they never use it etc, so if they can keep the expense down to compete with non adjustables then it may stick around but i;m concerned if the market is there. The superfast not having fct sort of made me think tm might be heading away from it but id like to see whats next.

Oh no, I was not talking about light or the SuperFast, I was talking about something else you mentioned. As mentioned in the THP Demo Day thread, we are having pre-release equipment there.

 

[JR]

I would think it doesnt have it to keep cost down, but I could be wrong...

 

[weezy109]

Oh no, I was not talking about light or the SuperFast, I was talking about something else you mentioned. As mentioned in the THP Demo Day thread, we are having pre-release equipment there.

Sounds good, and in all fairness for the average golfer some of the newer tech is great but i was posting in relation to camillo changeing for equipment issues and i don't think a pro will get anything out of the new tech. Even fct because i doubt many of them ever touch their clubs since they have tour vans etc. There are guys on tour that play clubs older than alot of the guys on this forum. Lumpy comes to mind as does kenny perry who plays 300 series tm irons.

 

[JB]

Sounds good, and in all fairness for the average golfer some of the newer tech is great but i was posting in relation to camillo changeing for equipment issues and i don't think a pro will get anything out of the new tech. Even fct because i doubt many of them ever touch their clubs since they have tour vans etc. There are guys on tour that play clubs older than alot of the guys on this forum. Lumpy comes to mind as does kenny perry who plays 300 series tm irons.

Ironically KP also plays xFT wedges and has been tinkering with the SuperFast driver with a superlite shaft.

 

[weezy109]

Ironically KP also plays xFT wedges and has been tinkering with the SuperFast driver with a superlite shaft.

The xft wedge idea is brilliant, i have to give credit. My fear is that it won't sell well and they will drop it and then we will be stuck with no faces. KP surprised me since he embraced the newer forgiving irons. He played regular r7 irons not tours and even used the burner 09s for a while. Have no clue why he went back to those old irons but he did.

 

[Bridges]

xFT wedges are selling like crazy. Im already stock pilling on the z groove faces as well.

 

[JB]

xFT wedges are selling like crazy. Im already stock pilling on the z groove faces as well.

Unfortunately that is just not correct right now. Atleast according to Golf Datatech. But with the new promotion, that may change (free face plate).

 

[TOAOST21]

i cant agree with anything about tech stopping, i count FCT as a new tech and i know of some pro's that offest their driver a little and now if they are hitting the ball a certain way on the range they can change the face angle to become more consistent, also irons have improved massively in 30 yrs. my father in law had a set of Ben Hogans from around then, they are all butter knife and there is no sort of low COG or MOI improvement to them, my r9's on the other hand have both. wedges have grown in leaps and bounds and the materials and processes we use to manufacture drivers have grown in the last couple of years hence all the rules about club manufacturing, see the callaway thread concerning a new plant and new people and consumers fears that they wont have it down as well as the old factory.

 

[weezy109]

i cant agree with anything about tech stopping, i count FCT as a new tech and i know of some pro's that offest their driver a little and now if they are hitting the ball a certain way on the range they can change the face angle to become more consistent, also irons have improved massively in 30 yrs. my father in law had a set of Ben Hogans from around then, they are all butter knife and there is no sort of low COG or MOI improvement to them, my r9's on the other hand have both. wedges have grown in leaps and bounds and the materials and processes we use to manufacture drivers have grown in the last couple of years hence all the rules about club manufacturing, see the callaway thread concerning a new plant and new people and consumers fears that they wont have it down as well as the old factory.

Yes but they still make the butter knives (x protos, titleist mbs) and they made eye 2s back then which are as forgiving as anything on the market today. Shaft tech and lofts have made irons longer but that just brought in the need to drop the 2 iron and add a gap wedge, so where is the improvement in that?

 

[JB]

they made eye 2s back then which are as forgiving as anything on the market today. Shaft tech and lofts have made irons longer but that just brought in the need to drop the 2 iron and add a gap wedge, so where is the improvement in that?

TO YOU! Not for everybody. There are other things that have made irons longer as well such as different metals being used and weighting in different places. If you have ever spoken to a club maker you will realize that while things have stayed the same for you, for OTHERS things are different. Take Hoeffy for example. He has nothing to gain in selling clubs, because he is retired. He will be the first to tell you things have changed QUITE A BIT. Putting weight in different areas and eliminating it in others has changed ball flight quite a bit. Offering more forgivness and and added flexibility to games. This is the man that is arguably the greatest club maker ever.

 

[TOAOST21]

yeah but tell me that the TM irons from 30 yrs back are as good as the new R9 TP. and that the new Titleist MB's are the same as their irons 30 yrs ago. new material and new techniques in manufacturing and some new advances make the new clubs easier to hit and able to hit longer which has made pro's better

 

[JB]

Just having vacuum casting has changed things by LIGHT YEARS!

 

[TOAOST21]

isn't the ability to see all the MOI and COG and the ability to move them around the club face make the club better to hit for both pros and the average consumer

 

[Bridges]

Sounds good, and in all fairness for the average golfer some of the newer tech is great but i was posting in relation to camillo changeing for equipment issues and i don't think a pro will get anything out of the new tech. Even fct because i doubt many of them ever touch their clubs since they have tour vans etc. There are guys on tour that play clubs older than alot of the guys on this forum. Lumpy comes to mind as does kenny perry who plays 300 series tm irons.

why do they need a tour van then if the irons 30 years ago are just as good? they should just be able to take some old hogans and hammer away right? no tour van needed by your theory since all the clubs arent any better than 30 years ago right?

 

[weezy109]

You guys are taking my comments out of context. This was in response to a few people sayin camillo left cobra to goto taylormade based on equipment needs. Camillo played equipment that has been around for decades. His irons were either pro cb/mbs depending on when you look. In MY OPINION there is nothing one manufacturer can give a PRO that can't be matched by any other company. Nothing. You can bet that his driver numbers were as close to perfect as he will ever get without changing something like the length of his driver shaft. The heads just simply aren't hotter, they can't be and still be legal. He might find a better shaft but that has nothing to do with taylormade or cobra because they don't make them. IMO for ME the best tm irons ever were the forged 300s from the late 90s i think. If you think camillo misses the center of the face ,which must have a regulated cor. , enough to get some huge advantage from switching companies then there isn't much else i can say to ya. 3 woods however can be hotter but imo again that club isn't something you leave a company over.

 

[JB]

You guys are taking my comments out of context. This was in response to a few people sayin camillo left cobra to goto taylormade based on equipment needs. Camillo played equipment that has been around for decades. His irons were either pro cb/mbs depending on when you look. In MY OPINION there is nothing one manufacturer can give a PRO that can't be matched by any other company. Nothing. You can bet that his driver numbers were as close to perfect as he will ever get without changing something like the length of his driver shaft. The heads just simply aren't hotter, they can't be and still be legal. He might find a better shaft but that has nothing to do with taylormade or cobra because they don't make them. IMO for ME the best tm irons ever were the forged 300s from the late 90s i think. If you think camillo misses the center of the face ,which must have a regulated cor. , enough to get some huge advantage from switching companies then there isn't much else i can say to ya. 3 woods however can be hotter but imo again that club isn't something you leave a company over.

And you are saying he left for another reason mainly money. The fact is, only he knows why he left, but for you to dismiss everything while having ZERO facts, is bold and naive.

 

[weezy109]

why do they need a tour van then if the irons 30 years ago are just as good? they should just be able to take some old hogans and hammer away right? no tour van needed by your theory since all the clubs arent any better than 30 years ago right?

They have to have vans to fix something like lie angle or face angle etc. And yes some players DO still play 30 year old irons. Most players play the latest and greatest because they get paid to do so. It used to be, before the equipment deals became big buisness, that a tour player would play the same irons and woods through their whole career. Greg norman won most of his tournaments with a driver from the 50's. Jack played the same 3 wood for most of his last majors as he did for his first. IMO again i don't think players would even bother to change clubs if they weren't paid to do so. Especially the irons.

 

[JB]

They have to have vans to fix something like lie angle or face angle etc. And yes some players DO still play 30 year old irons. Most players play the latest and greatest because they get paid to do so. It used to be, before the equipment deals became big buisness, that a tour player would play the same irons and woods through their whole career. Greg norman won most of his tournaments with a driver from the 50's. Jack played the same 3 wood for most of his last majors as he did for his first. IMO again i don't think players would even bother to change clubs if they weren't paid to do so. Especially the irons.

Can you by chance give me a player on tour that is playing irons that were manufacturered in 1980?

 

[weezy109]

And you are saying he left for another reason mainly money. The fact is, only he knows why he left, but for you to dismiss everything while having ZERO facts, is bold and naive.

I dismissed equipment issues only with money being the prime reason anyone goes anywhere different. It could very well be a fallout with the new puma management as i pointed out earlier. I just can't believe he would goto taylormade just because he thinks they have better clubs.

 

[Bridges]

They have to have vans to fix something like lie angle or face angle etc. And yes some players DO still play 30 year old irons. Most players play the latest and greatest because they get paid to do so. It used to be, before the equipment deals became big buisness, that a tour player would play the same irons and woods through their whole career. Greg norman won most of his tournaments with a driver from the 50's. Jack played the same 3 wood for most of his last majors as he did for his first. IMO again i don't think players would even bother to change clubs if they weren't paid to do so. Especially the irons.

so why do you change clubs and upgrade clubs? you should be playing 30 year old clubs since there is no advantages from todays clubs.

I bet if jb interviewed a pga tour player and said hey here i have these 30 year old irons, you play these for the US open and take out your irons, he would look at jb laugh and walk away. Id almost be willing to bet that you cant find a single player on the pga tour that would say ya i prefer 30 year old irons to 2010 irons because there is really no change in them. Goodluck with that one.


edit: did not see jb's post till after i posted this.