Official THP 2011 Golf Outing & Demo Day

[biggsy]

Balls also tend to be a club to 1/2 club shorter in the early morning than they will from mid-morning on.

Pay close attention to the grain on putts, they play a part from every angle. I'll show you what I look for on the practice green.

 

[coolbreeze]

Thanks Biggsy, I've never played on bermuda so I've never had to read grain on a putt. I'm really interested to see how it plays.

 

[Hawk]

Balls also tend to be a club to 1/2 club shorter in the early morning than they will from mid-morning on.

Pay close attention to the grain on putts, they play a part from every angle. I'll show you what I look for on the practice green.

JB really helped me with this in September. Florida greens are a different animal.

 

[White Rhino]

I think with all these side bets and competitions I think THP should secure the services of an on location booky to handle all transations ( with an 18% gratuity included of course)

 

[ddec]

JB really helped me with this in September. Florida greens are a different animal.

very true

 

[White Rhino]

From what I remember from the Squire it was a shorter course and I was alot more relaxed playing it than I was any of the other courses. I believe I score my best round on it. I know I had a ton of fun with Bama, Yoccos and SethO. The nuances of the course I don't remember as well as Gus does but I will say it was quite an enjoyable round.

 

[RxGus]

The Squire

The Squire

So, for those of you that played the Squire: What did you think and do you have any tips? I've read some info online and heard that it's tough, but I'd like to hear some specifics?

As promised earlier- I am home. All distances are from the "tips"
Hole #1- 494 yard, Par 5

Spoiler

Straight shot all the way down the hole. Off the tee it is narrower the shorter you play. Only 18 yards wide at 220 yards, expanding to 25 yards wide at 310. Water runs the entire left side of the hole.

Approach shot is a forced carry over a small "river" A run off area right and short of the green. A 250 drive leaves you 215 to carry the water, 235 to the front.

Green is 25 yards deep, single tier with a little bit of a back board along the back of the green.

Keep her in the FW and the hole plays easy- no tricks. Big drive and a being sure of your carry opens up the green in two

Hole #2- 424 yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Big dogleg left at 250 from the tips. Bunkers guard cutting the corner (270 carry). Water down the right of the fairway, after the DL it turns to OB.

Approach shot is straight away to a round green. 26 yard deep, two tiered split front/back. Anything in the fairway gives a clear go at the flag. 250 drive leaves 175 to the center.

Hit the FW and you are in good shape. Even from the rough she plays ok as long as you don't roll through the dogleg where some trees may block your approach

Hole #3- 154 Yard, Par 3

Spoiler

Water on the left, but no forced carry and not near the green. Green is long and narrow. 32 yards deep upside down teardrop, 15 yards at its widest. One tier with a small bump on each side near the front. Bunker guards front left.

Hole #4- 368 yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Hard dogleg right (80*). Pinched landing area at the turn is about 15 yards at its narrowest. Its 268 yards to run through the DL (bunker guarded) and 243 to carry the bunker guarding the right corner. water the entire side left and OB the entire side right. There are some trees that guard the right side of the fairway after the DL. Any driver in the 220 range may have the approach blocked by these trees.

A drive of 250 leaves you 90 to the front. Green is 30 yards long and 12 yards wide. You need 6 yards to carry a false front. Big mounds (one on each side of the green) dominate the rest of the green. Greenside bunker right runs most of the length of the green.

Tee shot needs to be at least 230 but no longer than 260 unless you take the corner. Left is better than right, and even a poor drive in the left rough will only leave you 130 to the front.

Hole #5- 506 yard, Par 5

Spoiler

Straight with a slight dogleg left on your final approach, long, and NARROW. There is a Biggsy bunker on the right (266 to the front, 300 to the back). Landing area is 30 yards wide off of the tee but pinches to 10 yards wide near the 100 yard layup but really opens up at 60 yards. Water all down the left and water all down the right. Total width water to water at 240 yards is 40 yards.

Green is elevated with a large mound on front left. Bunker left and bunker right. Green is an oval 28 yards deep and set "off" of the fairway by about 30* left.

Traps aren't in play until the approach shot to the green (unless you are long) and the sight of water on each side is intimidating.

Hole #6- 176 yard, Par 3

Spoiler

Water drifts into the "center line" of the hole but it isn't a forced carry. Kidney shaped green with a pot bunker filling the gap on the left. Big mound in front of the bunker in the middle of the green. Fairway run off on all 4 sides of the green (aside from the bunker). Green is 32 yards deep.

Pin position changes this hole dramatically. Last time it was near the bunker 3 paces after the mound making it impossible to go at.

Hole #7- 406 Yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Dogleg left (75*) at 300 yards. Water all down the right and OB left. Fairway starts narrow (<10 yards at 225) and spreads to about 35 yards at 250. Its 303 through the DL and into a bunker, and 280 to carry the bunker guarding left corner. It isn't worth attempting to cut as it doesn't change the complexion of the hole at all.

250 off the tee leaves you 150 to a long and narrow green, guarded front right by a bunker. Green plays straight away from the dogleg and is two tiered, the back half elevated above front.

Hole #8- 396 yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Slight (slight slight) dogleg right. Bunker on left at 250 witha fairway 25 yards wide. Water runs on the right with OB left. Trees down the left side for the approach shot shouldnt come into play. A 250 drive leaves 140 to the front. Green is an hourglass shape 30 yards deep. Bunkers on left and right near the pinch. 2 tiered starting 12 paces on and 18 to hit the top level. Top tier is only 11 yards deep and part of the green tucks in behind the left bunker.

Right side of the fairway offers the best look into the green. The fairway bunker makes for a tough mid-iron into a green wider than it is deep

Hole #9- 395 Yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Straight away par 4. Fairway disappears for 10 yards 60 yards in front of the green. Water on the left and OB on the right, but the rough and fairway really fattens out on the left in the landing area. 2 bunkers on the right are really in play. One from 200-230 off the tee and the other 250-275.

250 yard drive leaves you 135 to the front of a round green 32 yards deep. False front 10 paces on. Bunker guarding the left/front side.

Tee shots on the right side of the fairway have the best look at the green but bring the FW bunkers into play. Tee shots played safe (left) could find a stand of trees in the rough starting at about 220 off the tee.

Hole #10- 410, par 4

Spoiler

Straight away par 4. Blues and White carry over a waterway but reds and golds tee off infront of it. Two bunkers pinch the fairway on the right at 230-250 yards. A big drive carries both but the longer the drive the tigher the landing area. At 300 yards it is less than 15 yards wide. NO TROUBLE LEFT! but OB if you go far right.

NASTY green with bunkers at 2, 7, and 10 oclock. 38 yards deep and 15 yards wide. 2 tiered green with two large mounds at the front. Top tier is only 10 yards deep with nothing to stop a ball flown to the top level from bounding over the green.

Right is the best look at the green but brings bunkers into play. If you can make it over the bunkers, second shot may well be a "links" style runner, especially if the pin is on the top tier.

Hole #11- 162 yard, Par 3

Spoiler

Tee shot over water, but not a forced carry. Green is twice as wide as it is deep (35 yards wide, 18 yards deep). Left side is tiered above the right. Bunker guards the front right but isn't really in play unless the pin is tucked way right

Hole #12- 421 yard, Par 4

Spoiler

TOUGH hole. Big dogleg left at 280 yards (70* turn). Trees guard the corner and the run through. 300 to run the dogleg and but 280 to cut the corner. Anything short of 250 off the tee, or anything on the left side of the fairway will have an obstructed approach to the green from the stand of trees on the corner. There is a little water on the right, but not really in play.

The approach plays straight away into a 37 yard deep green with a run off in the middle right into a large bunker. Another bunker guards the front right. A little mounding on the left of the green will kick shots back to the middle of the green.

Hole #13- 309 Yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Risk reward hole only for the longest hitters. Big dogleg right at 290. Water on the right makes the green an island from the tee (290 carry) or on a long approach. WIDE fairway between 210 and 275 before it narrows to the 290. A solitary tree in the front right fairway could interfere with going at the green or someone who plays a heavy right to left ball flight. OB all on the left

Bunkers at 310 guard the run-through. A big pot bunker guards an approach into the green. From the tee the green sits horizontal, with bunkers at 10 and 12 oclock. The pot bunker sits at 8 oclock. Left half of the green is tiered above the right. Each has a prominent mounding. Left half of the green will kick the ball off and right half will help hold the ball.

250 leaves 45 to the center. 3W to Gap Wedge would be the smartest play

Hole #14- 460 yards, Par 5

Spoiler

Reachable Par 5 that could easily become an 8 (or a 12). Dogleg left off the tee is really short and the hole plays straight from there. Bunkers guard the run-through starting at 230 yards and continuing through 253. Carry over the left corner is 235 and very reachable for most players, but you need a right to left ball flight. Try to cut too much and stand of trees knocks down the shot. A 280 yard drive needs to move almost 25 yards to the left if you go over the corner. There is OB left (but not really in play) and a bomber going for the corner could end up wet if they double-cross themselves.

3 bunkers sit on the left at the 100 lay up. a 250 drive over the corner leaves you 170 to the green. The green is a funny shape that I can't describe, with water all the way around the back. Bunker at 3 and 7 oclock. 2 tiered, with the top tier being only 10 yards deep. Kick over and the ball will roll right into the creek.

Hole #15- 327 yard, Par 4

Spoiler

Green is separated from the fairway, off on the left at near 90*s and 40 yards of a forced carry. 265 runs you through the fairway and there is a bunker on the right at 209-230. Landing area is tight (10 yards) at 200, but opens up on the left at 230. A 200 yard drive leaves 100 to the pin while a 250 yard well placed drive leaves 95 to the middle.

A LARGE bunker guards the entire right side and most of the front. Pot bunkers at 9 and 10 oclock guard the green. 2 tiered with the top tier only beinf 8 yards deep. A very pronounced mound at the front of the green will pinball any approach shot that hits short.

Best angle/play into the green is 230 yards from the tips. Longer brings the right bunker into play and shorter leaves you a very small fairway to work with. FW bunker (right) is a good way to double the hole.

Hole #16- 383 yard, Par 4.

Spoiler

Straight away par 4. Wide landing area with FW bunker on the right starting at 260 yards and running to 320. Fairway pinches at the end of the bunker but isnt in play for us mere mortals. A big stand of trees on the left blocks any approach from the left rough. OB on both sides. Drive is over water but an easy carry of 180 yards to the FW

Hole has a big round green 26 yards deep with a bunker at 7 oclock. No major landmarks on the green.

A 250 drive leaves you 130 into the green. Just hit the fairway and avoid the left rough

Hole #17- 180 yard, Par 3

Spoiler

Forced carry from the tips but shorter tees get more landing area. From the back tees, a large bunker covers the distance from the water to the green (160 carry, 20 yards of bunkers). Water circles around behind the green and reappears back and left of the green but shouldnt be in play.

The green is 33 yards deep and is 3 tiered. #1 is a false front with a lower green area about 4 yards deep. #2 starts 10 paces on and runs all the way back. #3 is a run off area to the back right the filters in behind the bunker. A pin in the back right may be impossible to go after between the kick off the ridge and the long bunker carry required.

Hole #18- 494 yard, par 5

Spoiler

This hole reminds me of #16 of the bear trap. Dogleg right after the approach shot is at least a 50 yard carry over water to a peanut green. The hole is straight off the tee without any major issue. OB on the left shouldnt be in play.

The green sits almost 90 degrees from the fairway, meaning going for it in 2 leaves a green much wider than it is deep. A bunker guards the whole front and left- pot bunkers at 12 and 4 oclock from the tee box. The green is divided left and right (the middle of the peanut) by a LARGE ridge. From a layup, this ridge will divide the green front and back. Ending up on the wrong side of the ridge makes for a nasty putt. Attempting to carry to a back pin position may kick your ball off the downslope and into a back bunker.

A 250 drive leaves 230 to the green, almost all carry. Even if you can reach, layup and play a controlled 3rd shot into the correct half of the green. Miss to one side or the other and a 2 putt is not going to be easy.

Hope that helps everyone. FWIW-I really enjoyed reliving my round!

 

[Puttin4Bird]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to post that Gus! I've read through the front 9 and will continue on but just wanted to say thanks!

 

[biggsy]

Nice work Gus.

Looks tight and will force you to use a lot of clubs. Looks like a fun course.

If we play this for the scramble, this could get real interesting. Are we going to try and nail down a course for the replay or wait until closer to the outing? Sorry if this was mentioned earlier.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

Sweet! Thanks for the info Gus! Sounds awesome!


I Tapped, I Talked

 

[cg13]

I can help you with that stuff down there if you would like. One of the few things I do well.

Nice! A little on-course lesson from the man himself! Lucky man CL!!


Tapping and talking since 2010.

 

[White Rhino]

Nice work Gus.

Looks tight and will force you to use a lot of clubs. Looks like a fun course.

If we play this for the scramble, this could get real interesting. Are we going to try and nail down a course for the replay or wait until closer to the outing? Sorry if this was mentioned earlier.

I believe that is being worked on Biggsy

 

[biggsy]

I believe that is being worked on Biggsy

Figured it was, thank you WR.

 

[cg13]

Thanks Biggsy, I've never played on bermuda so I've never had to read grain on a putt. I'm really interested to see how it plays.

Me either, never played Bermuda or In Florida. I have a feeling im in for a beat down!

 

[JB]

I hope you can keep up with me off the tee big fella

That just cracked me up. I think you told me you were you going to steal everything in his bag longer than a 6 iron right?

He should give us plenty. He does have player's irons in his bag.

Absolutely. Thinner top line, less offset, he is clearly the player.

So, for those of you that played the Squire: What did you think and do you have any tips? I've read some info online and heard that it's tough, but I'd like to hear some specifics?

Nice course. More about shot making. No bomb and gouge on this one.

You'll see a bump in carry (5 yards?) but a significant decrease in roll (10+ yards). If you have never played Bermuda grass you are in for a "treat"... It's a whole different game!


Tapatalk- for when work is not enough...

Wow, not for me at all. Dont see ANY carry distance increase and you definitely get a decrease in roll. In fact depending on how thick the air is from humidity, you can lose carry distance. Curious Gus, with all the wind we had down there during the trip, could you really tell or could the wind have played a role in things? Or are you basing it off of past experiences?

Me either, never played Bermuda or In Florida. I have a feeling im in for a beat down!

Bermuda CAN be the most enjoyable grass to play on (according to the tour players), but it can also be an adjustment. The ball will sit a mm or two higher off the ground, so ball striking can actually be easier. However misses can be more exaggerated as well. You dont replace divots, you refill with sand.

One of the hardest parts of Bermuda is playing the grain on a putt. The grain can influence it as much or more than a break can.

 

[the Belbs]

I guess I'll chime in. I didn't see a huge loss or gain in distance in Florida. But putting is a challenge. I suck at putting normally but I just had no idea down there. On the Palmer course I had like 11 birdie putts and never made one. The rough down there is nuts also. It wasn't long but the ball just sinks to the bottom. Kind of funny really.

Goals for this year include:
Get into my "outing pants"
Play more consistent - no blow up holes
Lose to Biggsy in LD contest

My golf season doesn't start till May so if I have 3 rounds before I get to Florida I'll be surprised. I'd like to break 80 but I just can't see it happening.

 

[KellyBo]

The rough down there is nuts also.

I agree! This is the one thing that killed me the most, especially around the greens. It is my intention to work hard on learning how to chip out of the rough before we go this year!

 

[Tmex]

The Squire is a lot of fun. IMO I thought you had to be accurate and I'm going to try and plan my shots better. I had fun with SethO, WR and Bama on that one.

 

[SethO]

Man this thread moves fast!

I agree with TC on the distances. We have shared several rounds together and we usually discuss club selection and course management on many of the shots. There have been several times where we both agreed on the perfect club for each of us to use and we came up short. To me, the ball just doesn't go as far down there as it does for me here in the hills.

Bermuda is fun to play out of, but that is all I know really. I bet I could count on 1 hand the courses that I played that were not Bermuda.

 

[biggsy]

The Squire is a lot of fun. IMO I thought you had to be accurate and I'm going to try and plan my shots better. I had fun with SethO, WR and Bama on that one.

Looks like it's that kind of course. Premium on accuracy as the course isn't very long.

 

[Tmex]

It's a lot of fun. I don't have very good recall memory of the course at the moment but once I see the course again I'll remember the pain haha. It was a real good layout and I had a blast. I swear the bunkers just seem to pop up right where the ball is going to land.

Looks like it's that kind of course. Premium on accuracy as the course isn't very long.

 

[RxGus]

Wow, not for me at all. Dont see ANY carry distance increase and you definitely get a decrease in roll. In fact depending on how thick the air is from humidity, you can lose carry distance. Curious Gus, with all the wind we had down there during the trip, could you really tell or could the wind have played a role in things? Or are you basing it off of past experiences?

Bermuda CAN be the most enjoyable grass to play on (according to the tour players), but it can also be an adjustment. The ball will sit a mm or two higher off the ground, so ball striking can actually be easier. However misses can be more exaggerated as well. You dont replace divots, you refill with sand.

I am basing my "carry bump" on my monday round at PGA national which had significantly less wind than Sat or Sunday. There were several aggressive carries that I went after and I cleared them by 4 or 5 paces more than what I expected to. Its worth noting that by monday I had found my driver swing and was playing pretty well off the tee. There was enough of break in the wind that I feel comfortable that my carry was a little more. Up here in cleveland we don't escape the humidity in the summer and we are at sea level too. The only major change is temp in florida which increases distance ever so slightly.

It is interesting that you mention Pro's preferring Bermuda because I have always been under the impression the the Pro's unanimously prefer bent grass, specifically on greens. That is why the masters, and a lot of the "top end" courses in the mid south (carolinas, tennessee, kentucky, and even some georgia) that can get away with bent- do. It rolls purer and can be cut shorter making for fast, but fair, greens.

I remember hearing interviews with a lot of players talking about how they love the northern swing of the season, and I just assumed it was due in part to the bent grass.

 

[ddec]

I remember I had a putt on the first par 3 that was down hill. It was down grain for about 3/4 of the way there and then you could see the grass was darker the last 5-6 feet or so. It was a fast putt down hill/down grain but as soon as it went in to the grain you could see it slow it up. It came up about 2 feet short.

 

[MaryC]

Playing on Bermuda this week around Tampa/Sarasota.

I love playing on Bermuda and yesterday's round just made me so ready for May to be here!!

My goals for this outing, in no particular order:
1. Spend a little more time on practice green before rounds. I left a few putts short last year that would have turned bogey/doubles into par/bogeys

2. Drive the ball in the fairway. Last year was struggling w my driver because my shaft was the wrong shaft for me. This year have right shaft

3. Take advantage of the pool and frozen drink delivery by a pool boy ;-)

 

[coolbreeze]

Wow, not for me at all. Dont see ANY carry distance increase and you definitely get a decrease in roll. In fact depending on how thick the air is from humidity, you can lose carry distance. Curious Gus, with all the wind we had down there during the trip, could you really tell or could the wind have played a role in things? Or are you basing it off of past experiences?



Bermuda CAN be the most enjoyable grass to play on (according to the tour players), but it can also be an adjustment. The ball will sit a mm or two higher off the ground, so ball striking can actually be easier. However misses can be more exaggerated as well. You dont replace divots, you refill with sand.

JB I asked if anyone saw a distance increase because I have only played golf here, where people tell me the ball flies very short, Vegas where you feel like a superstar, and California where I saw about a 1/2 club to a club longer. Doesn't really matter you still have to hit the shot I was just curious. For those of us who have never played on bermuda I would love a short little info session on what to look for. I've heard the pros give lessons on tv but I've always ignored it because there is no bermuda grass within 5000 km's of here and I didn't really think it would come up.