Future of Product Testing on THP

[GolferGal]

TC isn't questioning anybody's character guys. He's saying that if you are reviewing items, that you should donate to THP because the donations make things like product testing a possibility. Shipping costs are borne by THP and can become very , very expensive. I can't say that I disagree with him, either.

Same here. There isn't a reason for people NOT to donate.


From the iPhone.

I really do not want anyone to feel like they need to donate in order to be involved with the forum and I fear this thinking might come to be by all this donation talk even though I know that is not what you all mean. That's why I think charging for the shipping is the best way to go. This way people can still donate to the site if they would like but they don't have to feel obligated to do so. And if a person get's chosen to be a tester then they will just have to pay for the shipping. If they are not interested in doing so then they do not have to be a tester. I think this will be a great solution for this issue.

 

[Kmac]

TC isn't questioning anybody's character guys. He's saying that if you are reviewing items, that you should donate to THP because the donations make things like product testing a possibility. Shipping costs are borne by THP and can become very , very expensive. I can't say that I disagree with him, either.

+10000 I agree.

 

[Hawk]

I really do not want anyone to feel like they need to donate in order to be involved with the forum and I fear this thinking might come to be by all these donation talk even though I know that is not what you all mean. That's why I think charging for the shipping is the best way to go. This way people can still donate to the site if they would like but they don't have to feel obligated to do so. And if a person get's chosen to be a tester then they will just have to pay for the shipping. If they are not interested in doing so then they do not have to be a tester. I think this will be a great solution for this issue.

I think that's a great idea. Sorry, I'm definitely not trying to put words in your mouth

 

[JR]

I have a question. Say I want to sign up to test a set of irons. I need to know how much I am getting into for shipping. Is there anyway that you (GG and JB) can tell us before sign up the costs?

 

[kokogirl]

That is something else that comes up. I will say it here first. If you get selected for testing (regardless of the product) and do a half ass job, you will not get selected again most likely. Its about details, its about helping others. That is what testing is about in my opinion.

I am going to respond to this before reading the whole thread. I agree with you JB. I feel very honored to be chosen to test a club recently, and I feel that it is my job and duty to give as much details as possible. If I do a crappy job, then I would not expect to test again.

I also love reading the threads about the equipment that I am interested in. The guys demoing the D11 irons have really been helpful. I love to talk equipment, and having forum members test equipment makes it even more fun.

 

[GolferGal]

I think that's a great idea. Sorry, I'm definitely not trying to put words in your mouth

Oh no, you didn't put words in my mouth at all. I just wanted to clarify.

I have a question. Say I want to sign up to test a set of irons. I need to know how much I am getting into for shipping. Is there anyway that you (GG and JB) can tell us before sign up the costs?

No way it's far more fun to play the guessing game. :wink: I am TOTALLY kidding! Of course we would tell people ahead of time. I can do a quick estimate based on the side and weight of a package and do an average of the cost based on locations to figure out a fair number. I could charge each person individually but it seems most are in favor of a flat rate so we can work on something like that. Of course, I need to stress, that our international members will have to pay a bit more.

 

[JR]

I am going to respond to this before reading the whole thread. I agree with you JB. I feel very honored to be chosen to test a club recently, and I feel that it is my job and duty to give as much details as possible. If I do a crappy job, then I would not expect to test again.

I also love reading the threads about the equipment that I am interested in. The guys demoing the D11 irons have really been helpful. I love to talk equipment, and having forum members test equipment makes it even more fun.

This has been my concern for a while. I do not know if I have done a good enough job in the past. I probably won't participate in as many ball testings from now on, I am just not good at them.

 

[ddec]

I have a question. Say I want to sign up to test a set of irons. I need to know how much I am getting into for shipping. Is there anyway that you (GG and JB) can tell us before sign up the costs?

so if they told you that you would have to pay 25 bucks for shipping for a set of irons would you say no? In reality whatever the shipping costs would be if you are in the US/Canada would be substantially less then the set of irons would cost.

 

[the boss]

I really do not want anyone to feel like they need to donate in order to be involved with the forum and I fear this thinking might come to be by all this donation talk even though I know that is not what you all mean. That's why I think charging for the shipping is the best way to go. This way people can still donate to the site if they would like but they don't have to feel obligated to do so. And if a person get's chosen to be a tester then they will just have to pay for the shipping. If they are not interested in doing so then they do not have to be a tester. I think this will be a great solution for this issue.

As I said to you yesterday GG I wouldn't mind paying shipping even to the uk

 

[JR]

so if they told you that you would have to pay 25 bucks for shipping for a set of irons would you say no? In reality whatever the shipping costs would be if you are in the US/Canada would be substantially less then the set of irons would cost.

Of course not, not unless I had to. Like it or not, there are just certain times when I cannot afford that much. It is that simple.

 

[Hawk]

Just so you all know, I want to make clear that I'm not judging anybody for not donating. Some didn't know about it and some can't afford it. I understand that 100% and I've been there before. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, if you are benefiting from some of the costlier perks of being a THP member and you can afford it, you should consider it. Or pick up your next shirt from the store. I'm not hating, just stating my opinion.

 

[ddec]

Of course not, not unless I had to. Like it or not, there are just certain times when I cannot afford that much. It is that simple.

that is very true and completely understandable

 

[GolferGal]

As I said to you yesterday GG I wouldn't mind paying shipping even to the uk

And as long as people feel this same way, no matter their geographically location, then I think we can start opening up the testing to everyone. I just want to make sure that international testers know they will be paying a bit more not only because shipping costs are obviously higher but because I cannot just drop their packages off at my front door and have the mail carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEX) pick them up. Instead I will have to travel 20+ minutes to drop these off and fill out customs forms so that will have to be factor into the pricing a bit.

 

[tomahawk18]

TC, I am surprised that you write off a person's reviews if they don't have a donor tag! My donations go to the American Cancer Society because my sister died of cancer last September, my mother and grandmother had breast cancer, my father-in-law has prostrate cancer.....I could go on and on with friends and family that cancer has touched. I give to the American Heart association because my step-father died of heart disease....again I could go on and on. I give to places that train dogs for the hearing impaired because I have 80% hearing loss in one ear and 30% hearing loss in the other, the unseen handicap. I give to places that train guide dogs for the blind because my mother-in-law is blind. So I get defensive when people who dismiss my comments, reviews or anything else because I'm not an approved "donor" as per their definition! I have always enjoyed your reviews and posts, but I think you went too far with your dismissal.

I also do not even know what a donor tag is!! However, I would be glad to donate.

That being said, I am very satisfied with the way JB and GG have run this site. I enter contests, but I haven't been chosen yet. Yes, I may get disappointed but, my goodness, I have NO problems with the people and reviews that have been selected! I cannot add anything more that hasn't been posted to the positive posts that have supported JB and GG and the rest of the staff. I have had nothing but great positive responses when I've had questions. I don't mind not getting chosen because many times I would not have been able to test for various reasons. Winter curtails what I am able to do outside. Time is another consideration for many.

I love this site. I don't come to this site to get free products. I come for the great atmosphere that JB, GG and the rest of the staff have created. The reviews are in depth and represent a wide selection of playing levels.

Keep up the great work, and TC, I hope that you will take my post as it is intended. I enjoy your posts very much, except for this one.

I was the first to question TC about this issue, as I felt the same way you do. TC is one of the best posters here and his dedication to the site is obvious. I now more understand the reason he feels the way he does, and let me tell you, his reasoning has a TON of merit. I don't feel comfortable sharing TC's and my private conversations publicly, but I will tell you that I totally understand where he is coming from after our conversation.

 

[ogiebogie]

so if they told you that you would have to pay 25 bucks for shipping for a set of irons would you say no? In reality whatever the shipping costs would be if you are in the US/Canada would be substantially less then the set of irons would cost.

You would be crazy not to pay the shipping!!!! Right?

 

[JR]

that is very true and completely understandable

I just realize how rude my last post sounded, I apologize.

 

[bigskyirish]

It would be very hard to justify sending equipment to someone in my opinion that does not have the take self admittedly. I appreciate your honesty and that you would set time aside, but the dilemma still exists. What happens if people have questions about your thoughts? What happens if more info is needed? Those things would not be able to be rectified for days possibly, correct?

As to #4, I do have to strongly disagree. If you look at our testers that have been selected over the last 6-7 months, very few have seen repeat testing. In fact most have not. Each testing we have done, new people have been brought in. Latest three tests to begin were Mashie (1 repeat tester and 4 first time testers), Wilson Staff Irons (1 repeat tester and 3 first time testers), and R11 FW & Hybrids (mostly first time testers). All of this pertaining to equipment as some have tested balls (as have hundreds on this site). We constantly try to bring new people into the testing as it is a way to learn who is good at what and get different perspectives.

JB - on my #3, I completely agree with your position, which is why I understand why you use activity as a criterion. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that is probably the best way to do it. For purely selfish reasons (I think it would be awesome to get a chance to test equipment and provide feedback), I tend to think it would be possible to pick testers that were not necessarily available every single day to post, but would still devote time to testing and would answer all of the questions that came their way as soon as possible. But I absolutely get that people want testers to be immediately available. So if that rules me out as a possible tester, so be it. I'll happily continue to enjoy the site and all of the great feedback from the great people here.

On #4, I will certainly defer to your statistics. But I think the fact that I was wrong about the pool of 15-25 testers might actually illustrate my point better than if I had been right. As a pretty new member here, my impression was that the same people were getting a lot of the opportunities. I was wrong, but that was my impression all the same, so I'm probably not the only one who has that impression. I want to be emphatic that my impression was definitely not a bad impression. Even if 15-25 people were doing all of the testing, I don't think people have room to complain and I do not want you to think that I'm complaining in any sense. I understood that the point of the thread was to provide constructive feedback, so my intention was to do that, not to criticize. My feedback was intended to suggest that if there was a bit more transparency about why certain posters are selected and/or the criteria by which they are selected, everyone might have a better understanding of the process and it might avoid the situation in which someone gets the same impression I did (a relatively small group of people are getting most of the opportunities) and is disappointed because (A) they don't know they are wrong and (B) they don't know what they need to do to get picked as a tester.

 

[JB]

And as long as people feel this same way, no matter their geographically location, then I think we can start opening up the testing to everyone. I just want to make sure that international testers know they will be paying a bit more not only because shipping costs are obviously higher but because I cannot just drop their packages off at my front door and have the mail carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEX) pick them up. Instead I will have to travel 20+ minutes to drop these off and fill out customs forms so that will have to be factor into the pricing a bit.

I just want to add one thing. Sometimes, THP does NOT have the choice to include international testers as well as even northern testers. Sometimes certain rules are given to us. Sometimes equipment is sent from the company and they have policies about testing. However it is good to know on those that do not have certain policies, that we can include some areas.

 

[JB]

JB - on my #3, I completely agree with your position, which is why I understand why you use activity as a criterion. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that is probably the best way to do it. For purely selfish reasons (I think it would be awesome to get a chance to test equipment and provide feedback), I tend to think it would be possible to pick testers that were not necessarily available every single day to post, but would still devote time to testing and would answer all of the questions that came their way as soon as possible. But I absolutely get that people want testers to be immediately available. So if that rules me out as a possible tester, so be it. I'll happily continue to enjoy the site and all of the great feedback from the great people here.

On #4, I will certainly defer to your statistics. But I think the fact that I was wrong about the pool of 15-25 testers might actually illustrate my point better than if I had been right. As a pretty new member here, my impression was that the same people were getting a lot of the opportunities. I was wrong, but that was my impression all the same, so I'm probably not the only one who has that impression. I want to be emphatic that my impression was definitely not a bad impression. Even if 15-25 people were doing all of the testing, I don't think people have room to complain and I do not want you to think that I'm complaining in any sense. I understood that the point of the thread was to provide constructive feedback, so my intention was to do that, not to criticize. My feedback was intended to suggest that if there was a bit more transparency about why certain posters are selected and/or the criteria by which they are selected, everyone might have a better understanding of the process and it might avoid the situation in which someone gets the same impression I did (a relatively small group of people are getting most of the opportunities) and is disappointed because (A) they don't know they are wrong and (B) they don't know what they need to do to get picked as a tester.

I loved your feedback and honesty. It is what this thread is about and you did it very well. I appreciate your input more than you know.

 

[littlepingman]

And as long as people feel this same way, no matter their geographically location, then I think we can start opening up the testing to everyone. I just want to make sure that international testers know they will be paying a bit more not only because shipping costs are obviously higher but because I cannot just drop their packages off at my front door and have the mail carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEX) pick them up. Instead I will have to travel 20+ minutes to drop these off and fill out customs forms so that will have to be factor into the pricing a bit.

Just a quick bit of advice about international shipping as I ship clubs internationally on a weekly basis...

If payment is made via Paypal you have the ability to print out the shipping labels and custom forms directly through Paypal.

So all you would need is the Customs Form Envelope 2976E which is available to order free from USPS at the link below.

https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/st...viewAll=N&rn=CategoriesDisplay&WT.ac=10000267

This will allow you to save that trip to the post office, I've found it to be a very handy tool and use it quite often.

 

[bogey_russ]

Yes there is. If they simply cannot afford it, we completely understand. People do have obligations and we completely understand those obligations. Now if someone does not want to cover shipping costs for testing items, that may be an issue in the future, but it is not something we have told people that they had to do in the past.

THP does not have to cost money. It is free and always will be for people that enjoy the site. If someone wants to assist in helping THP grow and offer more opportunities, donations are appreciated, but DEFINITELY NOT a necessity.

You did not donate your first year on the forum. That was your choice and nobody ever said anything to you about it....Nor should they. Donations are not mandatory and never will be.

this right here is the very reason i would more than gladly donate when and if i can afford it
THANK YOU JB! hands down best post yet
everyone else's comments saddened me alot and i felt as tho i were a 2nd or 3rd class thp'er because i didnt have a donor tag
hey i love golf just as much if not more than anyone posting on here
so much so that im getting paid minimum wage at a golf course with the only benefit is free golf/range
and its the only job thats flexible enough with my current situation... i care for my elderly parents one of which i drive to dialysis 3x a week and numerous dr's appt
but to tell you the truth thats neither here nor there
thp to me has never been about exclusion...
the guy with no handicap that cant break 100's replies hold as much weight as the scratch golfer and thats what i love about this site
the muni golfer and the country clubber
sad to see donators vs non donators is even brought up
i know ive been here for quite a while and havent donated (YET) but man ppl that havent donated shouldnt be looked down on even if they never donate

heck this thread is about ppl complaining about not being chosen to test products... its impossible with the diversity on this site to please everyone
as long as the majority are pleased i say why change? now if the majority were the ones complaining... thats another issue all together

 

[JB]

Just a quick bit of advice about international shipping as I ship clubs internationally on a weekly basis...

If payment is made via Paypal you have the ability to print out the shipping labels and custom forms directly through Paypal.

So all you would need is the Customs Form Envelope 2976E which is available to order free from USPS at the link below.

https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/st...viewAll=N&rn=CategoriesDisplay&WT.ac=10000267

This will allow you to save that trip to the post office, I've found it to be a very handy tool and use it quite often.

That is true, however due to the amount of shipping THP does, we get bulk rate discounts on postage. Because of that, the paypal shipping labels end up costing more for us than a trip to drop it off. Now if we charge the reader, that is different, but I still think they would prefer to save the money.

 

[mdbuschsr]

I have read only 16 pages so far, and I had a rather lengthy post written that I just deleted. THP will never please everyone. You have a built a community 4936 people strong (minus a few that have been banned etc.). The vast majority of folks here support one another, and would never dream of lodging a complaint about not being chosen for something.

I have no issue with paying shipping for the opportunity to test. If I can't afford it at the time, then I don't get to test. I don't, however, think that will solve the MIA testers issue.

I would like to see more feedback from members and staff alike on the content of reviews. I have only been a forum tester for the TM blind Ball test. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I tried to convey my thoughts during the test. In the end I had/have no idea if my reviews were well received by those "that count".

I was not one of the 100+ chosen for the Polara Ball test, and I did not get the least bit upset (my contributions/activity of late were down). But I did sort of question in the back of my head if I did not do a good enough job on the TM test.

In the end I say essentially leave the system alone, charge for shipping (even for contests) but you cannot allow those with an entitlement complex to change your obviously successful business model!

 

[GolferGal]

Just a quick bit of advice about international shipping as I ship clubs internationally on a weekly basis...

If payment is made via Paypal you have the ability to print out the shipping labels and custom forms directly through Paypal.

So all you would need is the Customs Form Envelope 2976E which is available to order free from USPS at the link below.

https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/st...viewAll=N&rn=CategoriesDisplay&WT.ac=10000267

This will allow you to save that trip to the post office, I've found it to be a very handy tool and use it quite often.

That is true, however due to the amount of shipping THP does, we get bulk rate discounts on postage. Because of that, the paypal shipping labels end up costing more for us than a trip to drop it off. Now if we charge the reader, that is different, but I still think they would prefer to save the money.

I appreciate your input, LPM, but we have a lot more factors than just that which goes into the shipping. I was just pointing out one part of it. And I wasn't referring to just USPS because we ship with all the carriers, USPS, UPS and FedEx.

 

[Nate]

Getting to be a tester on this site is a privilege and not a right, no matter what the process ends up being. It blows my mind that some of you have been lucky enough to have been selected as testers on this site but yet still haven't donated a single $. You can go out and play rounds and rounds of golf with the equipment you are testing but when it comes to donating it's "I need money for gas" or "I've saved up months so I can afford my country club memebership".

B.S.

I have no attachment to this site. I stumbled across it while doing a google search for the Taylor Made forged irons that are coming out soon. I was shocked that this was a free community and donations were available if you wanted to give, but not required. I've been following the 3 forums for testing and and appreciate everything the testers gave to the cause (esp. one-T, great stuff!). I was a member of a site years ago that eventually went under because they could not afford the hosting/cost of running the site. Not saying that would ever happen to HP but wonder if it did. All this wonderful opportunity gone because people never got around to supporting the community with a donation.

My personal feeling towards testing - at least one of the criteria for testing should be that the person donated to the site. Not saying its the only thing to determine who but it should go into the consideration. It should be used as a perk to possible enjoy a deeper membership this site has to offer. And those that have already been testers and haven't donated yet - shame on you guys. Come on and support the site that has already done more for you than probably any other site you've been a memeber of.

I appreciate everyone in this community and we all want the same thing here - a great golf talking community. (and for those thinking, "why doesn't Nate just donate then if he's all high and mighty about people doing so....." I just did and it's not because I want to test. I did because this is a great community that I wish to be apart of for many years to come. eace2: