GrantD
Formerly Known as DMB012
I am really excited to try the Cleveland driver out. I have loved my R9 but the Mashie has turned over a new OEM leaf. I can wait to see how that driver hits.
2011 - Year of the Driver?
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
You could play with the weights for that.
I saw the posting wondering if the R11 might be too "spiny" for somebody. The R9
SuperTri was surely designed to help people get he ball in the air. In the opinion of those that have tried it or know more about it, has the R11 followed the R9 down that same path?
I do think that within the category of golf equipment, the driver component of the market is incredibly competitive. I think people people are more inclined to try to mate themselves up to irons that are particular to them. However with drivers I think there are more people out there looking for the "best" one, the king of the heap if you will. As a result the OEM's are forced to respond in an effort to get to the top of the mountain. Granted there are particular driver traits that play to an individual player's strengths but I do think this king of the mountain thing is more prevalent in drivers than any other club in the bag.
SuperTri was surely designed to help people get he ball in the air. In the opinion of those that have tried it or know more about it, has the R11 followed the R9 down that same path?
I do think that within the category of golf equipment, the driver component of the market is incredibly competitive. I think people people are more inclined to try to mate themselves up to irons that are particular to them. However with drivers I think there are more people out there looking for the "best" one, the king of the heap if you will. As a result the OEM's are forced to respond in an effort to get to the top of the mountain. Granted there are particular driver traits that play to an individual player's strengths but I do think this king of the mountain thing is more prevalent in drivers than any other club in the bag.
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The original R9 was not overly spinny in my opinion and the R11 falls into that category. The SuperTri came much later as a larger driver head offering more spin.
Ole Gray
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The Srixon Z-Star driver is the most interesting driver I am looking forward to trying. I hit the Cleveland driver at the outing in September 2010 and it is an awesome driver. It's funny how the two drivers I have the most interest in are from the same company 
./
. It's going to be hard to push my S2 out of the bag. I have hit that driver better than any I have ever hit. But you never know and hey, every man needs a spare driver/drivers in the closet 
)
./. It's going to be hard to push my S2 out of the bag. I have hit that driver better than any I have ever hit. But you never know and hey, every man needs a spare driver/drivers in the closet )
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
I agree that this year as well as last year that all the major OEM's are offering a bunch of shaft options and most all of them offer some type of custom fitting and it seems that getting fitted is as easy as it has ever been.
I was surprised you left Ping off your list. The K15 was not released until late in the year and I'm sure Ping will be pretty aggresive this year in promting not only the K15 driver, but the G15, i15 and Rapture V2 which are still in their current lineup. With nearly sixty shaft options and the fact the K15 is so straight, I look for Ping to have a good year in 2011, and the price points are good I think as well. I also think there will be at least another new driver from Ping in 2011 if not 2 more later in the year.
I was surprised you left Ping off your list. The K15 was not released until late in the year and I'm sure Ping will be pretty aggresive this year in promting not only the K15 driver, but the G15, i15 and Rapture V2 which are still in their current lineup. With nearly sixty shaft options and the fact the K15 is so straight, I look for Ping to have a good year in 2011, and the price points are good I think as well. I also think there will be at least another new driver from Ping in 2011 if not 2 more later in the year.
I believe the driver gets changed out the most. I can imagine that most of the r/d gets pushed into that area. Plus, long and straight drives get more attention than tight wedge shots. Just think of how many people stand around the first tee box and watch everybody tee off.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
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The G15 and i15 are not 2011 products in my mind and while I might be in the minority, I dont think the K15 is on the same level as some others. I feel the standard shaft offering is lacking and consider it a step down from the product line it is replacing. I was a big fan of the G15, but do not feel as though it is a 2011 product like these others listed are.
Come fall, they will release more products I am guessing and I can reevaluate then.
rbrown2769
New member
I would agree that this is the year of the drivers and the year of the hybrids. The Z-Star, Cleveland Drivers and the R11 has tweaked my interest. TaylorMade will probably release another driver within 3-4 months of releasing the R11.
MSB256
Well-known member
I am intrigued by the Razr Hawk...
Are you thinking along the lines of an R11 SuperDeep, something like that or an R12?
Where do people think the Adams 9064ls DFS belongs in all of this? Do we think this will be the Adams offering for this year or do we think something new will be coming from them in the next month or so?
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The R11 will run for a full year at a minimum. TaylorMade has done the same evolution in their drivers (generalization) for the last few years. I dont have exact figures or specs, but I would venture to say that the next one will be a 460 model with a different shaft and coming in at a different price point. Then we will see a 460 version with all the bells and whistles like the SuperTri.
TC
Keg Thrower
i don't know where the whole stigma of taylormade releasing a new driver every 3-4 months comes from, and honestly, who cares? name one driver they've come out with in the past 5 years that isn't awesome. it's hard to do. in fact, don't companies like mizuno and adams release more new stuff in a calendar year?
TC
Keg Thrower
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I want to ask some questions to those following this thread. In years past we certainly saw some incredible drivers coming to market, but many believe this could be the year that tips the scales when referring to quality across the board.
What do you think the reason is for this year being so competitive?
Is it shaft technology solely that has made it this way?
Do you see any companies soaring above the rest or any falling behind the pack?
Is there confusion in what driver is right for your game?
What do you think the reason is for this year being so competitive?
Is it shaft technology solely that has made it this way?
Do you see any companies soaring above the rest or any falling behind the pack?
Is there confusion in what driver is right for your game?
Last year some really great drivers came to the market. Even the year before that we saw some great drivers. Now you have an economy thats not the best for a lot of people. While it seems to be getting better you now have a more cautious consumer. While I may not be one of those I think the majority are not willing to spend unless they need it or see that its that much better then what they have. So the major OEM's have to step up their game if they want sales. TaylorMade is going visual with white. Callaway is going exotic with a crazy composite developed with Lamborghini. Titleist with super adjustable drivers and clubs along with tons of SHAFTS. Ping always brings a solid club to the market and lets the brand speak for itself. And then you have the shafts. Instead of a good club with a ok shaft they say lets bring the custom shaft market right to the stock offering and try to lure even more customers and ultimately more sales that way. I dont see any one company doing any better then the others. They all have their fanboys and followers. But I dont think Taylor Made will continue to make the claim of the #1 driver in golf.
TC
Keg Thrower
1. i think it's a combination of things. i think that the consumer is becomming more and more educated concerning equipment, mostly b/c of things like the internet and golf forums and whatnot. i also think shaft technology is a huge player here. i spent a ton of time speaking with the owner of my local golfusa yesterday and as a retailer, he's loving that the OEM's are putting these better shafts in their products. he says it helps him move more inventory that he's invested in as opposed to sitting on that inventory and selling special ordered clubs.
2. i think that shaft technology is a huge catalyst but i wouldn't say it's the sole catalyst.
3. i think that cleveland deserves a ton of credit here. i have no doubt that by putting a premium shaft in their woods for 2011, it made the other OEM's have to think about following suit. why would i not want to buy the car that's fully loaded for the same price or cheaper than one that's not? i like what callaway is doing as well with their drivers in 2011. the whole forged composite is very intriguing and i have first hand experienced the faster swing speed that they advertise. of course taylormade, with the ghost'ing, is just slick as hell. those 3 have really stepped it up in 2011 imo, and the only one company that remotely is falling behind the pack is PING. they have the following though, so i'm not sure how concerned they may be. they make awesome drivers, i just don't like the idea of buying one and having to pay extra for a shaft upgrade or having to buy another shaft to put in it. there's just no reason to do that anymore. their competition is providing me with what i need. again, i loved the k15 driver, the i15 driver, but hated the shafts so it kind of takes them off my radar to be honest.
4. i'm fairly confident that i currently have the right driver/shaft for my game. a year and a half ago, i could not have said that.
I am not sure I have the right answers JB but I do think it is a complicated question. In fact I think we have all touched on the issues in various threads.
While I cannot determine which of the various issues is most responsible I think one determining factor has been the incredible advances that have been made in composite materials and shaft technology generally. I think the club OEM's saw a very difficult time coming for them in that at some point here the buying public was going to get tired of buying a complete club and then tossing the shaft in order to get a shaft that took better advantage of the available technologies. The onset of adjustability was in my view also something of a double edged sword for the club OEMs. While one could always glue a shaft onto a head, the adjustable/removable head allows for any shaft type to be attached to any head as long as the right tip could be applied to the shaft. That took the whole market one step closer to the time when the buying public would likely begin to demand the opportunity to buy heads only at a reasonable price. If we are paying anywhere from $299-$499 for a driver and tossing the shaft, buying another for anywhere from $150-$350 we could have as much as $850 into a single driver.
The OEM's initially brought in "versions" of these contemporary shafts and installed them on their heads but that simply did not get the job done. It certainly did not offset the customer's desire to toss the shaft that came with his head new and install something else. While we could muse over weather the OEM's would have told us all to "go take a hike, we are not going to sell you heads only at a reasonable price", I think that option is unrealistic. Some OEM would have broken ranks and that would have opened the flood gates. Offering much better shafts on the original clubs and offering shaft options is a better industry response and will in my view likely forestall if not eliminate the possibility of the buying public screaming for the opportunity to buy heads only at a reasonable price. You can buy heads only now but the cost is ridiculous and clearly does not reflect the standard head cost plus margin unless the cost component contributed by the shaft of a complete driver is something like $10.00.
That issue which does really relate to the whole shaft technology thing is coupled with the fact that generally when we go hunting for a driver we are less inclined to opt for something that appeals to us individually and more inclined to trying to ascertain which driver is the best of the bunch in that particular year. This is something of a gray area but what I mean to imply is that when we hunt for a new set of irons, we tend to look for something that appeals to us as individual players with particular strengths and weaknesses, opinions and preferences much more so than when we hunt for a driver. We will more often put those influences aside or at least downplay them and often will opt for whatever driver is considered the cream of the crop at that particular time. The OEM's know this and given that we as consumers now have so much access to information in our effort to root out that "best driver" they have been forced to respond to that market dynamic as well. I don't mean to imply that we do not consider issues like high spin vs low spin and other driver design elements as entirely unworthy of our consideration. Far from it. However I do think we are more inclined now to think about the combination of driver head and shaft relative to those sorts of issues and assume that we can mitigate whatever anomaly that there might be in a particular head as it relates to our individual swing characteristics by applying the right shaft to it. So I think our hunt for this hypothetical "cream of the crop" driver is encouraged by our belief that we can combine a shaft to a head that will get us what we want as it relates to our individual swing characteristics.
These two major market influences seem to have come to a head this year and we are seeing the best they can give us in a head coupled with better overall shafts coming on the head direct from the OEM and better overall shaft options offered by the OEMs'. There is much at stake here as I think TM for example has proven that you can derive a dominant market share by marketing to the kinds of buying influences that are relevant in the case of the driver.
As to your question of where that leaves us as consumers, well I think we will be hard pressed to flesh through what will be an avalanche of information just on this one category of club, the driver. I think it will be very very difficult to make choices especially at some of these price points. Here again, hasn't Cleveland put a mark out there that the other guys may have to respond to in the price point for the new Cleveland driver series with the Miyasaki shafts. $299.00 for a glued head driver with such a great shaft probably translates to something like $350.00 for a driver with an adjustable/removable head. That is lower than the OEM's like but still way preferable to being driven to the "sell us a head only at a reasonable price" threat that hangs over their heads.
My argument is full of holes that I myself can shoot into it so please don't feel bad if you guys feel like bashing away. That is what these forums are here for anyway.
While I cannot determine which of the various issues is most responsible I think one determining factor has been the incredible advances that have been made in composite materials and shaft technology generally. I think the club OEM's saw a very difficult time coming for them in that at some point here the buying public was going to get tired of buying a complete club and then tossing the shaft in order to get a shaft that took better advantage of the available technologies. The onset of adjustability was in my view also something of a double edged sword for the club OEMs. While one could always glue a shaft onto a head, the adjustable/removable head allows for any shaft type to be attached to any head as long as the right tip could be applied to the shaft. That took the whole market one step closer to the time when the buying public would likely begin to demand the opportunity to buy heads only at a reasonable price. If we are paying anywhere from $299-$499 for a driver and tossing the shaft, buying another for anywhere from $150-$350 we could have as much as $850 into a single driver.
The OEM's initially brought in "versions" of these contemporary shafts and installed them on their heads but that simply did not get the job done. It certainly did not offset the customer's desire to toss the shaft that came with his head new and install something else. While we could muse over weather the OEM's would have told us all to "go take a hike, we are not going to sell you heads only at a reasonable price", I think that option is unrealistic. Some OEM would have broken ranks and that would have opened the flood gates. Offering much better shafts on the original clubs and offering shaft options is a better industry response and will in my view likely forestall if not eliminate the possibility of the buying public screaming for the opportunity to buy heads only at a reasonable price. You can buy heads only now but the cost is ridiculous and clearly does not reflect the standard head cost plus margin unless the cost component contributed by the shaft of a complete driver is something like $10.00.
That issue which does really relate to the whole shaft technology thing is coupled with the fact that generally when we go hunting for a driver we are less inclined to opt for something that appeals to us individually and more inclined to trying to ascertain which driver is the best of the bunch in that particular year. This is something of a gray area but what I mean to imply is that when we hunt for a new set of irons, we tend to look for something that appeals to us as individual players with particular strengths and weaknesses, opinions and preferences much more so than when we hunt for a driver. We will more often put those influences aside or at least downplay them and often will opt for whatever driver is considered the cream of the crop at that particular time. The OEM's know this and given that we as consumers now have so much access to information in our effort to root out that "best driver" they have been forced to respond to that market dynamic as well. I don't mean to imply that we do not consider issues like high spin vs low spin and other driver design elements as entirely unworthy of our consideration. Far from it. However I do think we are more inclined now to think about the combination of driver head and shaft relative to those sorts of issues and assume that we can mitigate whatever anomaly that there might be in a particular head as it relates to our individual swing characteristics by applying the right shaft to it. So I think our hunt for this hypothetical "cream of the crop" driver is encouraged by our belief that we can combine a shaft to a head that will get us what we want as it relates to our individual swing characteristics.
These two major market influences seem to have come to a head this year and we are seeing the best they can give us in a head coupled with better overall shafts coming on the head direct from the OEM and better overall shaft options offered by the OEMs'. There is much at stake here as I think TM for example has proven that you can derive a dominant market share by marketing to the kinds of buying influences that are relevant in the case of the driver.
As to your question of where that leaves us as consumers, well I think we will be hard pressed to flesh through what will be an avalanche of information just on this one category of club, the driver. I think it will be very very difficult to make choices especially at some of these price points. Here again, hasn't Cleveland put a mark out there that the other guys may have to respond to in the price point for the new Cleveland driver series with the Miyasaki shafts. $299.00 for a glued head driver with such a great shaft probably translates to something like $350.00 for a driver with an adjustable/removable head. That is lower than the OEM's like but still way preferable to being driven to the "sell us a head only at a reasonable price" threat that hangs over their heads.
My argument is full of holes that I myself can shoot into it so please don't feel bad if you guys feel like bashing away. That is what these forums are here for anyway.
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White Rhino
SANDBAGGER!!!!!!!
1. With several of the main vendors joining forces witht he major shaft manufactrers, it has created an opportunity in the marketplace that has not been here before and several of the vendors are trying to capitalize on this by introducing new clubs, especially drivers, to the consumers in hope of landing greater sales.
2. I would not say soley but it makes up a great part of it. THe shaft is a major component to the swing and the better a shaft is set to be in sync with a club head and also theperson swinging the club, the better the results.
3. I see companies like Cleveland, Callaway, Taylormade stepping up and working with the shaft manufacturers and putting out what looks to be awesome packages. I wonder a bit about companies like PING, Mizuno and others who did not take this approach and are relying on past reputation to fuel their sucesses in the future.
4. From my vantage point there is alot of confusion as to what is the "perfect driver for my game" or whethere there is one in particular. I am not knowledgeable enough on what I am to be looking for when I have the opportunity work with a swing monitor so I stay with an older model driver that has worked up until now. One ( or more) of the new drivers comming out might be the right one for me, and I look forward to finding out and gaining some knowledge at the outing in May.
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Outside of Cleveland/Srixon, have other companies "joined" forces with shaft companies? I know that OEM's are offering better shafts overall, and I might have missed it, but have other companies joined with shaft companies?
White Rhino
SANDBAGGER!!!!!!!
I do not know what relationship are begin made behind the scenes, just trying to answer your question by saying what I see and perceive. I simply meant that companies are putting higher quality shafts by the major shaft manufacturer's in their clubs, 5-10 years ago that was not the case.
GrantD
Formerly Known as DMB012
I wonder which driver this year will have the largest sweet spot? What size will it be or is there a limit to the size of a sweet spot?