Completely off topic, but it is just under an hour down the road for me to get to Rudding Park in Harrogate
All Rounds Should Be Four Hours or Less
Marshals/rangers aren't even going to make an effort to enforce it unless course management pushes them to do so, then backs them 100% and will stand up for them. If you tell somebody to speed up, they tell you eff off and you kick them off the course, management better back you up when the guy goes in and pitches a fit about it. If not, you get a crew of marshals that don't give a s**t and aren't going to try to enforce anything. Why would you volunteer to get abuse heaped on you, knowing full well there's nothing you can do about it and management doesn't have your back? Drive around in the cart, smile and wave like you're on a Rose Parade float at the people parked on the greens and playing two holes behind the group ahead of them.
Word spreads fast. If a course doesn't tolerate slow play and doesn't tolerate their marshals being abused for trying to enforce it, people figure that out pretty quickly and they'll either play there and conform, or go play somewhere else where they can be stupid with no repercussions. Post it in the pro shop, have the starter advise groups of it as they go out, and let your marshals boot a few people off the course - the word will spread like wildfire.
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What’s a synonym for not ready?
It’s why they are hosted where they are
I didn’t understand your point initially but this post makes sense. My apologies.
Yes. If we were all reasonable people, a max of 4 hrs would be a compromise most could live with. Slower than some prefer but faster for others.
If we’re on the course and our POP doesn’t affect others, play as fast or slow as we want. But when the course is busy a little consideration from both extremes can go a long way.
That said, when I’m the first player out, I feel an obligation to set a fast pace.
No point in having Marshall's if the management doesn't back them up...after all they are enforcing the rules laid down by management.
Typhoon
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What you should do is go online and post the fact that it’s slow and the marshals so nothing on the course website. Hopefully they will read it and do something.
When I’ve gone out to marshal when I see it approaching 6 hours You can’t believe the amount of crap I get from these belligerent entitled a**holes. They don’t care about what you say, they think they own the course. We’ve escorted groups off the course. Then what do they do???? … they write a review on how they did nothing wrong and were thrown off the course etc… some people are just cowards with no clue… the world owes them a living.
You want people to enjoy themselves and it’s a shame to have these selfish ones out there. 4 hours has been the average for as long as I remember and there is no need for it to change. If anything you would think with the USGA claiming handicaps are going down pace of play would be better right??? What the USGA forgets is most people don’t have a USGA handicap so how do you track them?
I hear you about some feeling entitled. A friend of mine was playing with a 3some, and one guy didn't replace his divots. My friend said something to him about it and the guy replied, "That's what the hired help is for."
One of the things I always liked about golf is/was the concept of honor and integrity. That honor and integrity includes how one comports oneself on the golf course, and how one treats others on the course. However, I am beginning to wonder if that is becoming a thing of the past.
I think only around 10% of golfers carry a HI, so yeah, a lot of margin for error, lol.
I marshaled at a course where management didn't back us up. It was fun getting free golf for driving around doing nothing and hiding under trees all day.
Actually we'd drive around and sand divots, fix pitch marks on the greens, replace course markers, etc. - but we didn't say s**t to anybody about anything because management didn't back us up, and all the golfers knew it.
I'm just shaking my head at that one, lol.I marshaled at a course where management didn't back us up. It was fun getting free golf for driving around doing nothing and hiding under trees all day.
Actually we'd drive around and sand divots, fix pitch marks on the greens, replace course markers, etc. - but we didn't say s**t to anybody about anything because management didn't back us up, and all the golfers knew it.
IMO, 10 minute tee times give that bit of wiggle room to have a group lose a little bit of time and make it up. When you have 8 minute tee times, at least here in DFW, it ultimately backs up across the course and a 4 1/2 plus hour round ensues.
I play in league at the course I mentioned. While we push for 4 hours (and that's often what's included) - we base our penalty for slow play based on a 4 hour and 18 minute round. The language in the rules:
Should a group take more than 2 hours 12 minutes to complete their last 9 holes and are 16 minutes or more behind the group in front of them, each player in the group will be assessed a ONE STROKE PENALTY to be added to their just completed last 9 holes.
The “16 minute” out of position gap time is based on a 4 hour 18-hole time being an average of 13 minutes per hole. Par 3s should take about 10 minutes, Par 4s about 13 minutes and Par 5s about 15 minutes. Thus, a 16-minute finishing time gap would put the group at least a hole behind the group in front of them and considered out of position on the golf course.
There are occasional slow days, but it feels like it has the wiggle room to allow groups to stay on time and a friendly GPS unit that lets you know when you're running slow.
I don't question many referencing that if the marshals/management held people accountable they would leave terrible reviews so they don't do it, but aren't all the courses already overbooked anyway, so isn't there the possibility it would be addition by subtraction? I can't imagine those reviews would impact them so much they wouldn't be able to keep the course full, but maybe I'm underestimating the power of online reviews.
How many of the really bad offenders actually care about their score?
uitar99
Well-known member
Playing 18 holes usually takes 6 hours out of my day, regardless of the time to play 18 holes. Whether 18 takes 3:58 or 4:11.
Typhoon
Well-known member
I went out and drove around the course yesterday and the amount of unreplaced divots is mind blowing. It looked like we had a war out there. I just don’t get it… but like you said… no honor or integrity. But also a huge dose of laziness and cluelessness.
You would laugh at the amount of groups I have to tell on the first hole to tee off where the markers are. They said they tee off from where they want. So we have a tee box under repair…. That is where they are going
. Not to the white tees further back and not to the red and senior tees a tee box ahead… they go to the roped off one in the middle ….. And they look at you expressionless.
Typhoon
Well-known member
Nobody wants bad reviews, even there we’re full. And especially the uncalled for ones. I fear bad reviews will deter better golfers. Better golfers tend to look at the course online etc…to check it out. The hacks…. Not so much… so they have beer and carts?
I think this is all course dependent.
Also, I don't play many rounds that are over that pace, but I also don't think being outside with friends and family on a golf course for 4:15 is the worst way to spend time.
Also, I don't play many rounds that are over that pace, but I also don't think being outside with friends and family on a golf course for 4:15 is the worst way to spend time.
The players that want faster rounds join a private club when and if they can afford it. For me that wasn’t until age 45 and if I had to go back to playing a lot of public course golf I’d play much less golf.
We waked as a threesome yesterday in 2:50 and one of the guys in our group was 74 years old. It wasn’t busy but even with a full tee sheet on men’s league day, it’s normally no more than 3:40 minutes as a walking foursome. Afternoon rounds with lots of fivesomes rarely take more than 4 hours. If your are playing ready golf, 4 hours is slow for a walking foursome unless the entire group is shooting over 100. I just played in FL with a few guys in their late 70’s to mid 80’s that can’t move very fast and and couldn’t track a golf ball farther than 150 yards and we finished in 3:20 as a riding foursome. If they can do it, any able bodied middle aged guy with 20/20 vision should be able to it.
As far as fast players being slow drinkers, I was slow to finish my 3 beers yesterday. After our round it took me almost 3 hours to have lunch, chat over beers with some buddies I hadn’t seen since last October, and stop in the pro shop to buy a Galvin Green rain suit for an upcoming golf trip.
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4:15 isn’t a bad pace is it? If everyone in a foursome spends 3 minutes looking for a lost ball, that’s an additional 12 minutes per round, right? And that’s if nothing else goes wrong.
Dunno, it’s a silly broad brush to paint with in my opinion. Some days are just faster than others.
I’ll take a 6 hour round over work any day.
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So make it up elsewhere.
Its not hard to catch up. Its not hard to take 10 seconds less here and there or be ready.
Acting like 4 hours is rushing around the course but magically a little over that is a leisurely pace is just so freaking weird.
4:15 is just over the stated 4 hour limit of the thread. It's also the stated accepted pace of play at the course I play. A pace I rarely see because it's usually much faster.
One could argue that many of the "rules of conduct" are common sense. It appears sense isn't so common anymore.
I believe in Switzerland a golfer needs a "license" to play golf. To get the license the golfer has to pass a test, as well as play 9 holes of golf.