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Are the current Rules of Golf helping or hurting the game of golf?

Bags said:
So I believe, based on what I've been reading, that the rules can be quite confusing and it would be beneficial to have them simplified! They don't necessarily help or hurt the game of golf, they simply confuse a bunch of us! :)
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Let's hear your proposal. Give us an example that actually works in real life. I've made this challenge on a half dozen golf forums and I'm still waiting for someone to take it up successfully.

The rules we play by (or are supposed to play by) are really very straightforward. Learn how to play by the rules and you will never have to deal with the complex issues which only arise from doing something wrong like Tiger did last Friday. This is another challenge which I'm rarely taken up on, but it's a lot easier to accomplish it than it is to come up with a workable simplification of the rules.
 
Fourputt said:
Let's hear your proposal. Give us an example that actually works in real life. I've made this challenge on a half dozen golf forums and I'm still waiting for someone to take it up successfully.

The rules we play by (or are supposed to play by) are really very straightforward. Learn how to play by the rules and you will never have to deal with the complex issues which only arise from doing something wrong like Tiger did last Friday. This is another challenge which I'm rarely taken up on, but it's a lot easier to accomplish it than it is to come up with a workable simplification of the rules.
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I've got to disagree with you on that one. If the rules are straightforward, why do we have so many pages of decisions?
 
unfortunately I think there are just too many varriables and unexpected situations that can arise during a round which causes the need for alot of rules and whatever modifacations or changes or additions that have been made through the years. Anytime something may ever happen someone would always feel it isnt fair or isnt right and so a rule has to be invented. Its just the way the game is.

I just dont know if there was some sort of simplified rules if that too many differences of opinions would cause arguments and debates of just what is right or wrong with what somene may have done. I'm just not sure it can be done and maintain order at the same time. There may actually be more arguments and debates due to lack of or simplicity of rules vs what we think we see now.. kind of a catch-22 I guess. I just dont know and I could be wrong about that but I can preceive it as a possible negative.

I do think there are certain rules we may feel we could change, may not like, may think are not the right thing etc.... but if we got our way with such changes it wouldnt realy be simplifying but would probably be more like just modifying.
 
Fourputt said:
Let's hear your proposal. Give us an example that actually works in real life. I've made this challenge on a half dozen golf forums and I'm still waiting for someone to take it up successfully.

The rules we play by (or are supposed to play by) are really very straightforward. Learn how to play by the rules and you will never have to deal with the complex issues which only arise from doing something wrong like Tiger did last Friday. This is another challenge which I'm rarely taken up on, but it's a lot easier to accomplish it than it is to come up with a workable simplification of the rules.
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Here's my point - see below...

Kobey said:
I've got to disagree with you on that one. If the rules are straightforward, why do we have so many pages of decisions?
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There are 7 pages (just on this thread) of folks essentially arguing about 1 rule. If the rules committee of what is possibly the most prestigious golf tournament in the world was initially confused and either got it right or got it wrong, how are the other other 99% of golfers supposed to get these "straightforward" rules, 180 or so pages of them, correct every time? That's 180 pages for only 34 rules! Doesn't that seem a bit crazy? All I'm saying is in my opinion, simplifying them would be beneficial to the majority of golfers.
 
Bags said:
That's 180 pages for only 34 rules! Doesn't that seem a bit crazy? All I'm saying is in my opinion, simplifying them would be beneficial to the majority of golfers.
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You forgot the 581 pages of decisions on the rules. Some decisions are needed but a lot of it is way overboard. Trying to decide that this is right and that is wrong kind of legalizes the game to a ridiculous point. Once you define everything involved and its status then a referee acting in fairness and equity should be able to rule fairly for players.

The best book I ever read on the rules was by Tom Watson and was an illustrated book with a couple quizzes in the back. It was simple to understand and illustrated. I learned more about the rules from that book than I would have from the rules book ever. I cant help but think that a searchable multimedia version of the rules for smartphones would help people apply the rules properly.

I would also recommend the book "The Rules of Golf in Plain English" as a great way to learn the rules. The plain English part helps clear up all the lawyer talk.
 
Bags said:
Here's my point - see below...



There are 7 pages (just on this thread) of folks essentially arguing about 1 rule. If the rules committee of what is possibly the most prestigious golf tournament in the world was initially confused and either got it right or got it wrong, how are the other other 99% of golfers supposed to get these "straightforward" rules, 180 or so pages of them, correct every time? That's 180 pages for only 34 rules! Doesn't that seem a bit crazy? All I'm saying is in my opinion, simplifying them would be beneficial to the majority of golfers.
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And most of the arguing is being done by people who have never made any real effort to learn or study the rules. They are going mostly by word of mouth from their buddies or TV announcers, which are 2 of the worst ways I know of to learn the rules. Many local golf associations hold rules workshops if you really want to learn the rules from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. If that isn't the case in your area, then ask questions of the pro staff at your local course, ask here or on a website like the Leith Society site which is devoted exclusively to the rules. Get a rule book and read it yourself from the first page. Make sure that you learn the terminology in the definitions section.
 
Fourputt said:
And most of the arguing is being done by people who have never made any real effort to learn or study the rules. They are going mostly by word of mouth from their buddies or TV announcers, which are 2 of the worst ways I know of to learn the rules. Many local golf associations hold rules workshops if you really want to learn the rules from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. If that isn't the case in your area, then ask questions of the pro staff at your local course, ask here or on a website like the Leith Society site which is devoted exclusively to the rules. Get a rule book and read it yourself from the first page. Make sure that you learn the terminology in the definitions section.
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Again, if the rules are as straightforward as you say they are, why do they need "rules workshops" to teach them to us? Or websites that are devoted exclusively to the rules of golf?
 
I'm not so sure that the rules of the game are hurting it so to speak but I do think that some of the definitions could be modified to todays game, and I think the lack of education of the rules gives the rules a bad rap. People like us have been playing with loose rules for a long time and it's not the rules fault when it has to be enforced. I still say a formal class on golf should be required before getting on a course, at the most 2 hours but needs to be done, I think Europe has something in place. It's all fine and good to grow the game and I'm all for it but grow it right.
 
I agree with some, that the rules could be simplified. If I'm in a hazard and I scrape a leaf with my backswing, please tell me how that gave me an advantage??? But, I can't remove the leaf so that I don't hit it, right? What if my ball is sitting right infront of the leaf? I guess I have to take a drop and be penalized a stroke because of that silly leaf.

I like the structure of golf and I attempt to play by the rules. Sometimes I think I frustrate my playing partners who may say "We're not on tour." Well, I want to play by the rules so I know how well I really play this game.

Fourputt said:
And most of the arguing is being done by people who have never made any real effort to learn or study the rules. They are going mostly by word of mouth from their buddies or TV announcers, which are 2 of the worst ways I know of to learn the rules. Many local golf associations hold rules workshops if you really want to learn the rules from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. If that isn't the case in your area, then ask questions of the pro staff at your local course, ask here or on a website like the Leith Society site which is devoted exclusively to the rules. Get a rule book and read it yourself from the first page. Make sure that you learn the terminology in the definitions section.
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Fourputt, I think some of the rules just get complicated. Maybe it would help if the rules committee simply revised cases where the player really doesn't gain an advantage. So in Tiger's situation, he chose to play his next shot from a drop "nearest to where he played the last shot." Ofcourse, we know he made a mistake there and wasn't exactly nearest. Well, announcers kept pointing at the divot, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say his last shot was from just in front of that divot? So if I drop my ball and it lands in that exact spot, then rolls into the divot, I have to play it out of the divot? Why? My last shot wasn't in a divot! And, it probably just rolled closer to the hole than it was... So do I get to drop again, then place if that happens again?

Another things that I find frustrating is a ball slightly moving when I begin my backswing. For example, a ball sitting atop some pine needles might move when I take my club away. It's probably my fault, maybe I shouldn't attempt to ground the club, but even if the ball moves backwards away from the hole just a smidge, I get a penalty stroke right? Kind of petty in my opinion.

Also, "gain an advantage" can be up for interpretation as well. Some may say, if you don't get closer to the hole, you don't gain advantage (assuming your in the fairway, obviously rough to fairway would be an advantage). Going backwards, you are afterall, moving away from the target goal. Others may say going back five yards is gaining an advantage if that's a better distance for you.
 
I was wondering, what would be wrong to require professionals to pass a "rules test" like we have to take to get a drivers license?

How do you think PGA players would react if they had to get 100% on a rules test before each tournement? I predict many pros would be sitting out the tournaments.

I wonder if the rules officials could score 100% on a players 25 question rules test before each tournament?

I believe the USGA has made the rules as convoluted as the IRS tax code.
 
Trout Bum said:
I still say a formal class on golf should be required before getting on a course, at the most 2 hours but needs to be done, I think Europe has something in place. It's all fine and good to grow the game and I'm all for it but grow it right.
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I can see where you're coming from to a certain extent but I can also comfortably suggest that over half the people on this site, who absolutely love the game, would not have bothered picking it up if there were a mandatory 2hr class before you could even swing a club. Golf is viewed as uptight and stuffy enough. I do not think a madatory class would help the game.
 
I missed seven on the 18 question advanced.
 
alanaka24 said:
I can see where you're coming from to a certain extent but I can also comfortably suggest that over half the people on this site, who absolutely love the game, would not have bothered picking it up if there were a mandatory 2hr class before you could even swing a club. Golf is viewed as uptight and stuffy enough. I do not think a madatory class would help the game.
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True. It could be something that is required before competing in official events, but for the average golfer I say no.
 
Kobey said:
True. It could be something that is required before competing in official events, but for the average golfer I say no.
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That's something I could definitely get on board with more so than requiring recreational golfers to do so.

I've noticed many people voice one common "wish" for a rule change and that is the infamous divot lie. I can say this, that rule has already been changed for me and has been for a long time. Look, I'm not hitting out of inch and a half divot if I'm on the fairway. Period. If my ball lands in a divot thats been sanded then fine. But a fairway hit is supposed to be rewarded and I dont consider having to hit out of some inconsiderate jerks divot to be a reward. Until they start having rangers on every fairway making sure players fix their divots I'll be moving my ball back to the beginning of where the divot starts. And then I'll fix it if I can before I go along my way.
 
Bags said:
Maybe there are just too many "strange" rules in Golf? Do this if it's white, do this if it's yellow, do this if it's red... Maybe the USGA and R&A should look at this...
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I agree, too many ambiguous rules.
 
If you realy think about it, I would think it safe to assume that most people who golf do not play competatively. For most its a form of enjoyment, a hobby, a passtime, a recreation, a casual sport, etc.... And most have no need to know the rules especially in thier entirety and are comfortable playing with the basic concepts and basic "no no's" . In fact there are many who just go out and dont even keep score and just want to make good strikes without concerning with any rules. Then there are those who do play competatively but at the same time and inbetween also play alot of casual no worries kind of golf as well. Or may simply use such rounds as just practice and hone in on some skills also without keeping score or playing by the rules.

With all that mentioned and when considering the enormous amount of people who golf (even if just few times a year) around the world, there are probably enormous amounts more rounds played with any of the above intentions vs competative or even casual "by the rules" type of golf. And when considering a "100% by the rules" type its even more the minority. Heck, I'll even bet for every person that maintains a handicap there are 50 who don't and thats being easy on it.

People shouldnt be forced to learn all the rules because of all the above. It would then turn it into a responsibility and take away from the many other reasons they golf. For me personaly I would only accept my PB if I played by the rules. But the average person (including me) just feels great and gets a ton enjoyment and satisfaction just being able to see his/her ball land where they wanted it to and having some consistancy at doing it. And none of this means they dont have a passion for the sport or that they dont watch it on TV and it also doesnt mean they cant have opinions about the rules being too confusing or some being rediculous or being too many. Think how many us dont even play a sport and yet have opinions about rules in that sport like pro football or whatever.

One of the best things about golf is that we can play it however we wish and nobody cares because for most people most the time its realy just yourself against yourself. Even those you who go out and play friendly little wagers or friendly competitions with friends I would bet you wouldnt care if you lost your friendly bet or competition if you golf your PB and i garantee you'l be more happy than ever because its realy about yourself. That and the fact that you can play it however you want are the best parts about the sport and what helps makes it so great.

I think alot of people (as someone else mentioned) wouldnt even bother if they forced some sort of rules training or testing etc...or had to constantly play by the book. The game is hard enough and for all the reasons above it would ruin the enjoyment of it for too many people including those (as mentioned) who do play serious and casual golf at the same time.
 
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