Chipping - Short Game ---- Is it the Most Important Part of the Game?

[OITW]

I think 125 and in is important. When I'm having a good round I'm hitting greens from this distance or I'm getting up and down frequently. It's an aspect of the game that allowed me to drop 5 strokes on my cap last year

This ^^^^

Drive for show putt for dough

 

[jspangs]

It is if you don't hit many GIRs...

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[Just_Brad]

Yes it is important. I mangled my shots around the greens last night, and it blew my score up quickly..... like to the point I had to resort to chutting around the greens.

 

[golfinnut]

Of course it's important. That's what separates you from the other golfers IMO. You might be able to bomb it off the tee 50 yards passed me, but if you don't have a short game and can't get up and down and I can knowing my short game is going to hold up under pressure ... the scores are going to be the same in the end. I know that if I miss a green, I have enough confidence that I can get up and down from anywhere. Having confidence in your short game is the quickest way to lower your handicap and it teaches you to learn to score. That's the problem with a lot of amateurs who practice by just beating balls at the range and don't go to a short game practice area or "practice with a purpose." If someone asks "what's the quickest way to lower my handicap" I'll say "how many greens in regulation do you hit on average" or "how many putts per round do you take" .... if those numbers are high, then the obvious answer is to practice the short game. I would rather spend an hour on just the short game practice than just beating balls.

 

[RNG]

They were talking about this Friday during the Wells Fargo. Most players on tour would prefer elite distance over elite putting. If you look at the 2015 and 2016 winners so far, close to 20 wins have come from the top 10 in driving distance while only 5 have come from the top 10 in putting.

I agree, when you're putting to save pars and bogeys while the long hitters are putting for birdies it is no contest!!

 

[emart2173]

Yes, it is important. But I think that of equal importance for the everyday amateur is the tee game. Not distance, but accuracy. A good short game will turn three shots into two (or one), but you are never going to score well if you are in recovery or layup mode with the second shot or hitting three with your second swing of the hole. You have to get to that 125 and in first before those skills become useful.

for a mid high hdcp who struggles off the tee it doesn't have to be about scoring good it's about scoring better. If it takes 3 to get to 125 and 4 to get it in the hole ever hole the score will be high, but even with the same getting to 125 in 3 and then getting down in 2-3 strokes every hole starts to drop the score and hdcp of the player quicker. Amateurs are going to hit bad shots and have to play recovery shots and not get to or on the green in reg often so the better they can become around the green and on it they can improve their game quicker.

I play with a guy who is inconsistent off the tee and plays between low - mid teens because from inside 50yds he is going to get on the green and usually pretty close to have a chance at making the first putt.

 

[rollin]

Yes, it is important. But I think that of equal importance for the everyday amateur is the tee game. Not distance, but accuracy. A good short game will turn three shots into two (or one), but you are never going to score well if you are in recovery or layup mode with the second shot or hitting three with your second swing of the hole. You have to get to that 125 and in first before those skills become useful.

I agree with your general logic but one thing that imo is wrong is to say is that those skills wouldn't be useful unless you get there first. They are always useful. True if we cant get close in respectable amount of strokes we cant score low either bit having better short skills can certainly still minimize further damage so its never useless. It will always help to have better skills in any part.

Of course it's important. That's what separates you from the other golfers IMO. You might be able to bomb it off the tee 50 yards passed me, but if you don't have a short game and can't get up and down and I can knowing my short game is going to hold up under pressure ... the scores are going to be the same in the end. I know that if I miss a green, I have enough confidence that I can get up and down from anywhere. Having confidence in your short game is the quickest way to lower your handicap and it teaches you to learn to score. That's the problem with a lot of amateurs who practice by just beating balls at the range and don't go to a short game practice area or "practice with a purpose." If someone asks "what's the quickest way to lower my handicap" I'll say "how many greens in regulation do you hit on average" or "how many putts per round do you take" .... if those numbers are high, then the obvious answer is to practice the short game. I would rather spend an hour on just the short game practice than just beating balls.

Kind of contradicting in one sense you say its what separates players yet you then say the scores will be the same. The player bombs it 50yrds past you and that will place him with many more makeable greens via much shorter irons/wedges. You get up/down somewhat better than him and yet your scoring the same. How are you then separated from him? How are you more the "player" than him? You both excel in different parts yet score about the same so imo there is no separation.

Hitting greens imo would be something if one could work at perfecting may separate players more than short game (putting given an equal). Be efficient from the tees and with approach shots? imo can certainly separate a player too.

 

[Kevin Coleman]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Getting up and down is an invaluable skill especially since you are not likely to hit every green. However, I would suggest looking at why you are missing greens and working on your approach shots. Are you in bad position on your second shot; if so, work on your tee shot. if you are missing greens from decent lies, work on the approach shots and aim for the middle of the green. It is kind of a double edge sword, if you keep missing greens and can't get up and down, you are putting more and more pressure on yourself as the round goes on.

if it were me, I would focus on the approach shot.

 

[golfinnut]

I agree with your general logic but one thing that imo is wrong is to say is that those skills wouldn't be useful unless you get there first. They are always useful. True if we cant get close in respectable amount of strokes we cant score low either bit having better short skills can certainly still minimize further damage so its never useless. It will always help to have better skills in any part.


Kind of contradicting in one sense you say its what separates players yet you then say the scores will be the same. The player bombs it 50yrds past you and that will place him with many more makeable greens via much shorter irons/wedges. You get up/down somewhat better than him and yet your scoring the same. How are you then separated from him? How are you more the "player" than him? You both excel in different parts yet score about the same so imo there is no separation.

Hitting greens imo would be something if one could work at perfecting may separate players more than short game (putting given an equal). Be efficient from the tees and with approach shots? imo can certainly separate a player too.

I didn't say he hit the green. Did I? He might hit the ball a long way but he has NO short game that's my point. My short game out trumps his long game. I've played with countless number of people that can crush the ball but either have no idea where it's going or just can't hit the green or scramble when they miss it.

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[-CRW-]

It is important, but it's not the most important. Like others have posted, the strokes gained data show that the guys that are longest while being somewhat accurate have the best chance to win.

what i have seen in these type threads is that low-mid/low handicaps will say short game is important and mid/high group will say all aspects or tee game is as important or pretty important.

I think that is because a lot of the low-mid/low guys either never had to deal with penalties off the tee or they have amnesia about it. I've always said that the biggest contributor to strokes on my score cards is how I'm playing off the tee on any given day. And I've always been written off here when I say it. But everyone that played with me at the Hogan event knows it's the truth. If I could hit my second shot from the fairway just about every time like what was available to me in the Hogan shamble event I would drop from an 18 to a 10. Hitting GIRs on 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and a greenside bunker on 18 was a first for me and it was possible because I was given the set up for it through tee shots in play and from the fairway the majority of the time, not because I hit my irons exceptionally well that weekend. In fact, due to set up issues (lie angle, grip, shaft) I hit my Hogan irons worse than my previous set that weekend.

I see the same kind of results for most of the 15-25 index guys that I've played with so I know I'm not an anomaly, especially when I play scrambles with them.

 

[rollin]

for a mid high hdcp who struggles off the tee it doesn't have to be about scoring good it's about scoring better. If it takes 3 to get to 125 and 4 to get it in the hole ever hole the score will be high, but even with the same getting to 125 in 3 and then getting down in 2-3 strokes every hole starts to drop the score and hdcp of the player quicker. Amateurs are going to hit bad shots and have to play recovery shots and not get to or on the green in reg often so the better they can become around the green and on it they can improve their game quicker.

I play with a guy who is inconsistent off the tee and plays between low - mid teens because from inside 50yds he is going to get on the green and usually pretty close to have a chance at making the first putt.

But its also (for many) at times not just 3 to get to 125 and could be 4 and also again is the 125 thing. I think its fair to assume many mid and upwards cappers may view this as an approach the same way as a 140yrd 9iron or whatever. So in that sense its about hitting greens or iron striking and considered other than short game. But regardless, so now lets say one is at 140 (so as not to label it short game) with a 9iron and he blades one into the right side tree line and needs to recover. Now has reached his short game area yet is hitting 5 before it even begins. Surely he must now try to get in as few strokes as possible in order to not make it worse. But just like you mention that having a better short game is the quickest way to lowering scores. If one minimizes the damages with (other than short game areas of play) they can just as quickly lower scores too. Making sure your in short game position in 2 or 3 strokes instead of the 4 or 5 you had on 9 of the holes and you just very quickly took at least 9 strokes off your game. That's fast too and will lower your cap fast too. This doesn't minimize any of the importance for short game and is not my intent. But I just think some tend to minimize the importance of all else.

 

[rollin]

I didn't say he hit the green. Did I? He might hit the ball a long way but he has NO short game that's my point. My short game out trumps his long game. I've played with countless number of people that can crush the ball but either have no idea where it's going or just can't hit the green or scramble when they miss it.

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surely if he is just that bad from close in there will be a point where the damage is too great. And also of course hitting long means nothing if one is never in play well enough. You just didn't make it sound quite this way.

 

[McRock]

It depends on the person. Yes, for the most part, short game is the quickest way to lower a score. People who pay attention to where they are wasting strokes usually find that they miss the green, don't get their chip/pitch close enough, and so they two putt, for a bogey.

That said, there are plenty of people out there who would be better served by learning to keep the ball in play off the tee. I don't care what their short game is, if you are losing 5+ balls per round off the tee, that's a lot of penalty strokes that should probably be addressed first.

~Rock

 

[Fourputt]

I didn't say he hit the green. Did I? He might hit the ball a long way but he has NO short game that's my point. My short game out trumps his long game. I've played with countless number of people that can crush the ball but either have no idea where it's going or just can't hit the green or scramble when they miss it.

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To be honest, I've never met a player who hits a long driver and keeps it in play consistently but couldn't follow it up with a reasonably good approach shot most of the time. You are talking about a rare exception to the rule, not the norm.

When I make big numbers, it usually starts with a bad drive. When my driver is in control, the rest of my game follows right along.

 

[emart2173]

It is important, but it's not the most important. Like others have posted, the strokes gained data show that the guys that are longest while being somewhat accurate have the best chance to win.



I think that is because a lot of the low-mid/low guys either never had to deal with penalties off the tee or they have amnesia about it. I've always said that the biggest contributor to strokes on my score cards is how I'm playing off the tee on any given day. And I've always been written off here when I say it. But everyone that played with me at the Hogan event knows it's the truth. If I could hit my second shot from the fairway just about every time like what was available to me in the Hogan shamble event I would drop from an 18 to a 10. Hitting GIRs on 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and a greenside bunker on 18 was a first for me and it was possible because I was given the set up for it through tee shots in play and from the fairway the majority of the time, not because I hit my irons exceptionally well that weekend. In fact, due to set up issues (lie angle, grip, shaft) I hit my Hogan irons worse than my previous set that weekend.

I see the same kind of results for most of the 15-25 index guys that I've played with so I know I'm not an anomaly, especially when I play scrambles with them.

Im not discrediting the need to hit a more playable tee shot or even approach shots. It makes the game easier from the fairway and working on all aspects of the game should be worked on to become better players but since the majority of the game is played with a wedge of some sort all levels of players can get better by reducing the strokes within this distance. Having a good wedge game will help get on the green in fewer strokes and will also help in reducing putts/hole.

I was a 15 last year and was not consistent with my tee game but because I spent as much time working on my short game including putting I dropped 5 strokes over the summer because I was able to knock off a stroke or two with wedge shots and reducing putts per round.

If more mid-high hdcps spent 30 mins more a week on short game practicing than they do now they could easily knock off a couple strokes on their cap and without changing anything else in their game.

 

[CBaker]

It's pretty dang important. The most important? I don't know, I'd say putting is the most important. But the highest % on the PGA tour for GIR is 72%. That's the highest...for the best players in the entire world...

So if the best players in the world are missing on average 3 out of every 10 greens, you're probably missing a bunch. Work on your approach game all you want, when it comes down to the facts, you're missing a bunch of greens no matter what. Work on your short game (chipping/pitching/putting) - It pays off more than anything else.

 

[-CRW-]

If more mid-high hdcps spent 30 mins more a week on short game practicing than they do now they could easily knock off a couple strokes on their cap and without changing anything else in their game.

And I agree with this. I just think that for someone who is inconsistent off the tee that they could knock off a lot of strokes off their cap by addressing it versus a few strokes by working on short game more. It's like putting the cart before the horse.

 

[rbarthle17]

If more mid-high hdcps spent 30 mins more a week on short game practicing than they do now they could easily knock off a couple strokes on their cap and without changing anything else in their game.

You assume that short game is the reason why all high handicaps are what they are. That is a bad assumption to make. There is no one size fits all plan for improving one's golf game, and people need to stop acting like there is. It's individual, just like player.

I spent a lot of time this winter work on my green side game out to 30y, and it has definitely helped. But I am so bad off the tee that my short game is relegated to "saving bogey" at best on holes. Not unimportant, but also not the biggest reason my game would get better.

Last year I did a test. I played the same nine holes from the back tees (3000y) and the front tees (2200y) consecutively. I scored EIGHT strokes better from the front tees over nine holes. One reason was that I was teeing off with irons almost every hole on the front. I was purposely trying to leave myself in about the same distance for a second shot - I did not want to skew things by trying to drive greens from the front tees. I was way more accurate off the tee from the front, and had 5 GIR instead of the 1 GIR I had from the back tees. Again, this is just over 9 holes. Massive difference.

So - for me - my handicap will drop more from a boost in my long game. Once that is fixed (if ever), then absolutely the short game will be the overriding factor in further decreases.

In the end it's all a matter of properly analyzing your game's defects, and answering the question "why is that a problem?". For some people, getting to the green is no problem but they lose all kinds of shots around the green. For others, getting on the fairway is good but they are wild on approaches. And for others (like me), it's all about decreasing the number of times that you put yourself in a hole from the very first shot.

 

[CBaker]

I would still love to see two 20 HC's do a study with 1 working solely on tee game and 1 working solely on short game and see which one is scoring better by the end of the season.

 

[MPlefty]

this discussion is always the same, we need to take this for what it is.

people claiming that one is more important than the other doesn't mean they do not think that you should work for long and short game.
my opinion is that once you reach a point in your game where you can get to 30-50 yards of the green most of the time (lets say 14 out of 18 holes) within regulation, the focus should move from the long game to the short game.

 

[rollin]

You assume that short game is the reason why all high handicaps are what they are. That is a bad assumption to make. There is no one size fits all plan for improving one's golf game, and people need to stop acting like there is. It's individual, just like player.

I spent a lot of time this winter work on my green side game out to 30y, and it has definitely helped. But I am so bad off the tee that my short game is relegated to "saving bogey" at best on holes. Not unimportant, but also not the biggest reason my game would get better.

Last year I did a test. I played the same nine holes from the back tees (3000y) and the front tees (2200y) consecutively. I scored EIGHT strokes better from the front tees over nine holes. One reason was that I was teeing off with irons almost every hole on the front. I was purposely trying to leave myself in about the same distance for a second shot - I did not want to skew things by trying to drive greens from the front tees. I was way more accurate off the tee from the front, and had 5 GIR instead of the 1 GIR I had from the back tees. Again, this is just over 9 holes. Massive difference.

So - for me - my handicap will drop more from a boost in my long game. Once that is fixed (if ever), then absolutely the short game will be the overriding factor in further decreases.

In the end it's all a matter of properly analyzing your game's defects, and answering the question "why is that a problem?". For some people, getting to the green is no problem but they lose all kinds of shots around the green. For others, getting on the fairway is good but they are wild on approaches. And for others (like me), it's all about decreasing the number of times that you put yourself in a hole from the very first shot.

To be fair I do think he has a point when he says getting better at short game will drop strokes. It has no choice because you will be better at doing it and so then will the strokes drop some of course. Its just that (like you say) one can also drop strokes by getting better at whatever areas of play he suffers from. Cant get off a tee efficiently enough? well then getting better at that is going to drop scores. Cant hit an qpproach well enough? getting better at it will drop scores.

 

[rbarthle17]

I would still love to see two 20 HC's do a study with 1 working solely on tee game and 1 working solely on short game and see which one is scoring better by the end of the season.

Same issue, why are they 20s? You need to find two people with similar games (i.e. same general issues) and then your test will be valid.

 

[rollin]

I would still love to see two 20 HC's do a study with 1 working solely on tee game and 1 working solely on short game and see which one is scoring better by the end of the season.

your assuming the 20 capper is only struggling from the tee where as it could (and often is) very well be approach and irons too. It could be a lack of consistency with all parts of ones game that leaves him a 20 cap. If you found a 20 capper and his only issue was short game and another whos only issue was long game and all else was equal, then they would both be about the same after fixing each ones issue.

 

[emart2173]

And I agree with this. I just think that for someone who is inconsistent off the tee that they could knock off a lot of strokes off their cap by addressing it versus a few strokes by working on short game more. It's like putting the cart before the horse.

i have sad that I'm not discrediting the ability to save strokes thru accuracy off the tee and keeping the ball in play or in front of the golfer. I struggled with this and still do sometimes but because i have put in time working on the short game it tends to take pressure of my tee game and approaches because i feel that I can get up/down or no worse than two putts on most holes yo help keep my blow up holes to a minimum.

I just look at where a majority of the game is played which is with a wedge in hand either full swinging from a pw distance or with pitches/chips and it has to be IMO an important aspect of the game to focus on.

You assume that short game is the reason why all high handicaps are what they are. That is a bad assumption to make. There is no one size fits all plan for improving one's golf game, and people need to stop acting like there is. It's individual, just like player.

I spent a lot of time this winter work on my green side game out to 30y, and it has definitely helped. But I am so bad off the tee that my short game is relegated to "saving bogey" at best on holes. Not unimportant, but also not the biggest reason my game would get better.

Last year I did a test. I played the same nine holes from the back tees (3000y) and the front tees (2200y) consecutively. I scored EIGHT strokes better from the front tees over nine holes. One reason was that I was teeing off with irons almost every hole on the front. I was purposely trying to leave myself in about the same distance for a second shot - I did not want to skew things by trying to drive greens from the front tees. I was way more accurate off the tee from the front, and had 5 GIR instead of the 1 GIR I had from the back tees. Again, this is just over 9 holes. Massive difference.

So - for me - my handicap will drop more from a boost in my long game. Once that is fixed (if ever), then absolutely the short game will be the overriding factor in further decreases.

In the end it's all a matter of properly analyzing your game's defects, and answering the question "why is that a problem?". For some people, getting to the green is no problem but they lose all kinds of shots around the green. For others, getting on the fairway is good but they are wild on approaches. And for others (like me), it's all about decreasing the number of times that you put yourself in a hole from the very first shot.

not assuming every high capper is where they are because of short game but for a good portion of them it's part of the problem. Playing the right tees or the right clubs off the tee is part of the problem. Keeping the ball in front of oneself will go to helping reducing scores.

I am am just saying that without changing any other aspect of consistency in ones game and using the short game as an area of focus for a very important aspect of the game for improving a reduction in scores can probably be achieved quicker than what it takes for some to fix the accuracy and distance off the tee or on approaches.

If I can be relaxed on the tee or hitting an approach because of confidence with short game i usually play better because I feel confident in being able to reduce the big number after problems off the tee or on a bad approach.

 

[Fourputt]

To be fair I do think he has a point when he says getting better at short game will drop strokes. It has no choice because you will be better at doing it and so then will the strokes drop some of course. Its just that (like you say) one can also drop strokes by getting better at whatever areas of play he suffers from. Cant get off a tee efficiently enough? well then getting better at that is going to drop scores. Cant hit an qpproach well enough? getting better at it will drop scores.

However, short game improvement will hit a wall very quickly. It doesn't do much good for your overall scoring to consistently get up and down for double or triple bogey. The thinking on game improvement has done a 180 over the last few years. The common thought used to be that to properly learn golf, you started at the hole and worked out (think Harvey Penick). Now the best teachers go the other way, starting with the full swing and only worrying about a strong short game focus once the player has show the ability to get on or near the green in regulation.

Some short game work is always advised, but the strongest focus should be on getting to the short game area in the fewest number of strokes possible.