Driver issue & advice?

[Faiz]

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this but I wanted to get some of this out of my head and share with like minded people. I guess for advice and a sanity check.

So I've gone through a really big swing change this year which more or less started towards the end of the summer. I'd bought a new Rogue Sub Zero I believe at the end of 2019. Yes I bought it late and tbh I wasn't even intending to buy it, I wanted the Original One 11.5 but it wasn't in the store or anywhere else in this country for that matter. So I tried a load of drivers and hit this one considerably better than the rest so bought it and saved money.

I've had some monster drives with this club but when I think about it I've never had a round with more than 2 or 3 good drives. By good I mean on or near the fairway!

It's just always gone right for me. Gently with my old swing which had an extremely strong grip and viciously at times with my new swing. I've included a pic where you can see my grip change. I've managed to get it vaguely in control at times but I generally feel very nervous to pull it out unless I know I can miss far right or aim so far left to bring it back to the fairway or right rough. Crazy huh.

But with my new swing I can hit my 3 wood so well. Straight down the fairway and long. It's predictable and at times I've removed the driver from the bag to remove the temptation knowing that I'll score better with my 3 wood. My 3 wood is a Cobra F8+ set at 12.5°D.

During the last month in lockdown I was putting in my garage and noticed my old Bertha Mini 1.5 head which I bought from Toad on here! I'd retired it in 2018 because the shaft snapped. Looking at it I realised that the Rogue shaft would fit in the Mini head. I realise this is not ideal with regard to swing weight etc but at this point I knew I had nothing to lose.

I played yesterday exclusively with the Mini off the tee. My god.
It was so easy to control and know where it was going. I even played a draw on one hole. One hole I intentionally played a fade around the dogleg and it ended up in the middle of the fairway. It was exactly as I imagined it which hasn't happened in a good way for so long! Haha

So I know that adding length will make the club more upright so I was interested to see what the lie difference was between the two.

Mini 1.5 standard length is 57.5°, adding 1 and 1/4 inches adds 2.5° to make it 60°.
Research showed the Rogue SZ to be 56°, further research and I found the attached quote, funnily enough the quote is more or less about my setting

This got me thinking and I remembered my best ever driver was the TaylorMade R1. This had a lie of 61°! Unheard of based on the research I've done on today's clubs.

This is a long post but I really wanted to share this. Is there more to it than what I've said? Where does this leave me. Should I be looking for more upright drivers? I don't struggle to stay straight with my 3 wood or irons but I severely struggle with the driver. I can't help but think after this experiment that the club is not helping. I know every bad workman blames his tools etc but in this case I do wonder.

What would you do? I'm tempted to take a look at some more forgiving drivers and see what happens. I've seen that a fair few drivers have far more upright lie angles. I'm actually quite excited to see if I've solved this problem and where it leads me

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[tequila4kapp]

Grip change + swing change... I wouldn't buy a new club for a while. If the Mini works now fine, put that in the bag otherwise I'm locking my CC up and staying away from golf retailers until I've got the changes fully engrained.

 

[mtbloco]

So I know that adding length will make the club more upright so I was interested to see what the lie difference was between the two.

Mini 1.5 standard length is 57.5°, adding 1 and 1/4 inches adds 2.5° to make it 60°.
Research showed the Rogue SZ to be 56°

I've never heard this before. Would someone explain this to me?

 

[jvbart]

Interested to follow along with this one. I'm playing a GBB Epic and having a similar issue pushing everything right (50 yards offline sometimes but no sidespin) and I just can't figure it out. I never considered lie of a driver, interested to see what others say.

 

[YukonLiving]

That is a significant change - grip, ball placement, width of stance...

If it were me, I'm with @tequila4kapp and I'd lock up the CC for awhile until you're happy the new swing feels natural. Sounds like the mini is going to work for you in the meantime.

 

[YukonLiving]

I've never heard this before. Would someone explain this to me?

Length affects dynamic lie angle. For every 1/2" of additional length, your iron will play 1 degree more upright. For every 1/2" reduced, the iron will play 1 degree more flat.

 

[mtbloco]

Length affects dynamic lie angle. For every 1/2" of additional length, your iron will play 1 degree more upright. For every 1/2" reduced, the iron will play 1 degree more flat.

thanks. I still can't get my head around it. but thats ok.

 

[-CRW-]

Length affects dynamic lie angle. For every 1/2" of additional length, your iron will play 1 degree more upright. For every 1/2" reduced, the iron will play 1 degree more flat.

thanks. I still can't get my head around it. but thats ok.

It doesn’t alter dynamic lie as that’s a product of the golfer/club/swing. It alters “effective” lie. It just means that assuming your set up remains constant (namely spine angle and hand position) the longer club will have to be tilted more toward the ground. This points the toe of the club up and the face left of where it would have been at the same lie angle with a shorter shaft.

 

[mtbloco]

It alters “effective” lie.

Now that makes sense.

 

[YukonLiving]

It doesn’t alter dynamic lie as that’s a product of the golfer/club/swing. It alters “effective” lie. It just means that assuming your set up remains constant (namely spine angle and hand position) the longer club will have to be tilted more toward the ground. This points the toe of the club up and the face left of where it would have been at the same lie angle with a shorter shaft.

I had my words mixed up. Thanks for clarifying! This is the thread I used when I was learning about lie and length of clubs:

THP - Lie Angle and Shaft Length

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

Like others have said, maybe wait until you are more into the swing change, but the Big Bertha B21 has really helped mitigate my big miss to the right while remaining in the low spin category.

 

[Faiz]

Thanks guys some sound advice!
I'll give it 6 months or so and see how it goes.

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[Faiz]

Hi all!
So I had an iron fitting and was really happy with how much difference it made to my game in terms of dispersion both front to back and side to side.
What really amazed me was the difference from shaft to shaft.
I know most of you are probably aware of the power of a fitting but getting fit is quite new to me having been in Uganda before 2018.
This really got me thinking about my driver and what a fitting could do for me. I'm still hitting the Bertha Mini 1.5 well and still slicing the Rogue Sub Zero sadly. We will see in my fitting but I think my slice is specific to my Rogue SZ as I don't slice any of my other clubs.
What I wanted to ask is what drivers do you think I should try in my fitting in terms of being forgiving without much distance sacrifice?
So far I was thinking of the Bertha B21 and Ping G425 Max.
I was also going to try some low spin drivers and see if we can get the right shaft to tighten up the dispersion.
Just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right heads in my fitting.

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[nicklongdrive]

Hi all!
So I had an iron fitting and was really happy with how much difference it made to my game in terms of dispersion both front to back and side to side.
What really amazed me was the difference from shaft to shaft.
I know most of you are probably aware of the power of a fitting but getting fit is quite new to me having been in Uganda before 2018.
This really got me thinking about my driver and what a fitting could do for me. I'm still hitting the Bertha Mini 1.5 well and still slicing the Rogue Sub Zero sadly. We will see in my fitting but I think my slice is specific to my Rogue SZ as I don't slice any of my other clubs.
What I wanted to ask is what drivers do you think I should try in my fitting in terms of being forgiving without much distance sacrifice?
So far I was thinking of the Bertha B21 and Ping G425 Max.
I was also going to try some low spin drivers and see if we can get the right shaft to tighten up the dispersion.
Just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right heads in my fitting.

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The Rogue is a pretty aggressive club that gives great ball speed at the expense of dispersion (by a great margin). Definitely try the B21, G425 Max and Epic Max LS if you're looking for ball speed and very controllable. You could even throw in the RadSpeed XB, however, I was deeply impressed by the Epic Max LS and would use one if I didn't like the Ping aesthetic/position at address a hair more.

The shaft is really going to pull it all together and smooth out the launch conditions and increase consistency dramatically. I've done so much testing with different shaft profiles with my own money and can definitively say getting fit for the right thing is going to make a dramatic difference. Funnily enough some of the low spin options I have tested were actually producing terribly spinny results for me and the only way to know how something is gonna perform is to test it.

I, of course, am saying this after purchasing a Tensei Pro White 1K 50 TX on a whim, lol.

 

[Kenomikes]

Make sure you also try the Cobra Radspeed XB as mentioned above. It’s long, lower spin, and very forgiving at a great price with amazing shafts tossed in for free.

 

[Faiz]

Cool I'll definitely try those 4.
I found this great shop in the town next to mine and they have pretty much everything so should be able to try a wide range.


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[McLovin]

if you're high spin and need some reduction without losing too much forgiveness, i would say callaway b21 and callaway epic max ls would be two great drivers to start out with. if you want to look at different manufacturers, it seems like the cobra is one of the lower spinning out right now.

i personally worry when someone says they want low spin and forgiveness, because it's pretty hard to make both happen. i'd rather go for a little more spin with the driver head, and maybe go for a lower spinning golf ball (if your short game can handle it).

 

[nicklongdrive]

if you're high spin and need some reduction without losing too much forgiveness, i would say callaway b21 and callaway epic max ls would be two great drivers to start out with. if you want to look at different manufacturers, it seems like the cobra is one of the lower spinning out right now.

i personally worry when someone says they want low spin and forgiveness, because it's pretty hard to make both happen. i'd rather go for a little more spin with the driver head, and maybe go for a lower spinning golf ball (if your short game can handle it).

It's pretty possible with today's tech, but the head alone won't be the solution as you mentioned. Low spin is all relative as well, most people would be well off to just be below 3k rpm.

 

[jdish13]

The Max LS is a neutral biased head and feels a bit hard to me where as the Speed head is a little draw biased and feels more comparable to your rogue head in my opinion. I would add the Speed head to your list.

 

[Faiz]

The Max LS is a neutral biased head and feels a bit hard to me where as the Speed head is a little draw biased and feels more comparable to your rogue head in my opinion. I would add the Speed head to your list.

I'll give all 3 a crack!
Draw biased as opposed to fade biased sounds good to me.

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[McLovin]

It's pretty possible with today's tech, but the head alone won't be the solution as you mentioned. Low spin is all relative as well, most people would be well off to just be below 3k rpm.

i just get annoyed with the low spin craze, and i think a lot of people do themselves a disservice when they chase it because as you say, low spin is relative. if someone is already at 2,800, sure they can drop some rpm by switching head and maybe ball, but at what cost? spin is forgiveness for many types of misses. so when someone opts for low spin like the tsi4 or g425 lst or radspeed xb, misses can be exacerbated. sure you may see the occasional long ball, but don't be surprised when dispersion suffers. fwiw that's not directed at you, just generally what some tend to overlook.

 

[Kenomikes]

i just get annoyed with the low spin craze, and i think a lot of people do themselves a disservice when they chase it because as you say, low spin is relative. if someone is already at 2,800, sure they can drop some rpm by switching head and maybe ball, but at what cost? spin is forgiveness for many types of misses. so when someone opts for low spin like the tsi4 or g425 lst or radspeed xb, misses can be exacerbated. sure you may see the occasional long ball, but don't be surprised when dispersion suffers. fwiw that's not directed at you, just generally what some tend to overlook.

I don’t think Cobra Radspeed XB is low spin, it’s lower spin for me then like say a Ping G400 MAX and 425 MAX in my fitting but we’re all different. That said, I still will say it’s lower spin than a lot drivers so give it a whirl. I guess all I’m saying is the Ping was too high spin and cost me distance.

 

[dbigstick]

I found that changing to a better fitting shaft has turned a pretty good driver to outstanding. Don't get me wrong if I put a horrible swing on it I can get bad results. But the ball is staying in the yard with that bad swing. It has also taken thinking out of the process. Pick my target, aim a touch left and let it rip. A straight ball flight with a hint of a fade if I want it on demand. So my advise is find a good fitting shaft that fits your swing. Then you can worry about club heads. I switched out CB Alta to a Tensi AV raw.

 

[Faiz]

Driver fitting booked for Wednesday afternoon!
Clubs that I will definitely try are:
Mizuno STX
Cobra Rad XB
Ping G425 Max & LST
Callaway B21 & whichever Epic the fitter decides is best
In addition to this I'll try whatever the fitter suggests but I have a feeling my new driver will come from this selection.
I am super excited!

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[Faiz]

So I went for my fitting yesterday.
Turned up with my Rogue Sub Zero and I explained all of my problems with the big slice etc. He asked me to hit a few shots with it so we could get a baseline to work with. I laughed and told him to get ready for the slice.
I proceeded to pipe 5 bombs right down the middle. What just happened! We both laughed and I think it was because I was so sure I was going to slice it and wanted to show him that I was so relaxed about it.
Anyway it was a bit ridiculous and I had already sold the driver and was posting it off that night.
We used the shaft optimiser to get an idea of shafts. I can't remember the exact three but they were all heavy X flex shafts.
He selected the following:
Callaway Epic Max LS
Ping G425 LST
Cobra Radspeed & XB
TaylorMade Sim2 Max

So I hit a few shots with each, working my way through them and now actually hitting my regular slice ball and generally struggling with dispersion. To try and correct it I was turning some of them over and it just wasn't great. One of the problems for me is that they generally sat quite open and I was struggling to grip them ensuring they were square.

After hitting the Cobras he suggested I try the Srixon ZX7. I was sceptical tbh just because I don't like the sole design. What a stupid reason not to try a club.
He got it set up and I lined it up.
OMG. It just sat absolutely perfectly square to the ball. I could let it sit and then grip my hands on to the club and get comfortable. As soon as I saw that I just knew I was going to hit it well. I proceeded to hit a series of very nice small draws. I laughed because it was so different. At this point I was sweating because I'd hit so many balls and we have to wear a mask indoors. I continued though and just couldn't stop hitting it well.
At this point I knew this was the driver, we swapped the shaft out to a Project X Hzrdus smoke Black and my dispersion was not as good. Went back to what I discovered was a Graphite Design Tour AD HD7 X and again went back to the tight draws.
That's it I'm sold! However he wanted to call Srixon and check availability as they messed up my iron order so he said he'd call me. Now he's said I should go back in tomorrow and hit some with the ZX7 whilst I'm fresh and make a final decision.
I am very excited and can't believe I never even considered Srixon despite ordering their irons.
Blue circle is Rogue Sub Zero
Red circle is Epic Max LS
White is G425LST
Yellow is Radspeed
Orange is ZX7

Let's hope tomorrow goes well!

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