GI Irons - Lofts Don't Make Sense

[Birdman03]

I've seen other discussions on this including an excellent thread by Tom Wishon.

I use Callaway Mavrik irons as my example. The longer clubs start with an 18 deg 4I and they are gapped at 3 deg. The wedges are gapped at 5 deg. And a 41 deg PW? I would like to know the rationale for all of this.

I doubt the average Mavrik buyer can hit the low lofted clubs very well so they have to try hybrids.

Most decent players are going to want tighter gapping with shorter clubs and wedges because that's where more precise distance control pays off. Also, most prefer wedges with lofts higher than 55 deg, so those players need to buy one or two wedges to add to this set.

 

[Jman]

I've seen other discussions on this including an excellent thread by Tom Wishon.

I use Callaway Mavrik irons as my example. The longer clubs start with an 18 deg 4I and they are gapped at 3 deg. The wedges are gapped at 5 deg. And a 41 deg PW? I would like to know the rationale for all of this.

I doubt the average Mavrik buyer can hit the low lofted clubs very well so they have to try hybrids.

Most decent players are going to want tighter gapping with shorter clubs and wedges because that's where more precise distance control pays off. Also, most prefer wedges with lofts higher than 55 deg, so those players need to buy one or two wedges to add to this set.

Loft gaps are NOT the same as distance gaps. It’s one of the areas which drives me absolutely nuts. Companies aren’t going to bunch gaps and not take into account distance gaps for the sake of gaining distance, it’s not reality though many always want it to be.

 

[Jman]

Another reason that loft is only one single part of club design, not the whole club design.

 

[ddec]

Lofts are only part of the equation. Most golfers(myself included) need to stop focusing on what the loft says and pay attention to what the club is actually doing for them. That's why you see some of these companies gap things the way they do. They test them, on pretty much every swing speed.

 

[War Eagle]

Lofts are only part of the equation. Most golfers(myself included) need to stop focusing on what the loft says and pay attention to what the club is actually doing for them. That's why you see some of these companies gap things the way they do. They test them, on pretty much every swing speed.

I came to say the same.

Other than my set GW, I have no clue what lofts my irons are. Dont care either. I know my distances, so that's good enough.

 

[Slowmo]

companies adjust lofts to meat a launch criteria they are looking for to create a distance gap between clubs. The GI clubs have so much tech in them and weight placement of tungsten and such that they have to lower the lofts to keep shots from ballooning and going nowhere.

 

[Jman]

Lofts are only part of the equation. Most golfers(myself included) need to stop focusing on what the loft says and pay attention to what the club is actually doing for them. That's why you see some of these companies gap things the way they do. They test them, on pretty much every swing speed.

This. Club selection or judgement by loft alone needs to stop.

Hit them, see the distance gaps, not the loft gaps, because you and I both know the two things aren’t at all the same.

 

[ddec]

I will also gladly say when I see a company do 41° PW it turns me off. Talking directly to you PING. I could easily game those 430's, but you messed with my head. Therefore....you out.

 

[Jman]

I will also gladly say when I see a company do 41° PW it turns me off. Talking directly to you PING. I could easily game those 430's, but you messed with my head. Therefore....you out.

You are better than that anyway haha

 

[ddec]

You are better than that anyway haha

true.

I did post something about lofts in the AI Smoke irons thread. I could see myself going with a set from 6-AW(whatever one they play at 45/46) and then keep my normal 50-54-60 wedge combo.

 

[blazinden]

I will also gladly say when I see a company do 41° PW it turns me off. Talking directly to you PING. I could easily game those 430's, but you messed with my head. Therefore....you out.

That's just a 9i going to a Halloween party.

 

[ddec]

That's just a 9i going to a Halloween party.

my guy, you never disappoint

 

[Birdman03]

companies adjust lofts to meat a launch criteria they are looking for to create a distance gap between clubs. The GI clubs have so much tech in them and weight placement of tungsten and such that they have to lower the lofts to keep shots from ballooning and going nowhere.

Very good points. If the longer clubs produce favorable trajectories and playable distance gaps, then you're right it doesn't matter what the lofts are.

A GI 4 iron like Mavrik may be the same loft as the 2I of yesteryear, but it's shorter length and much better technology so it's easier to hit.

 

[Birdman03]

Very good replies on this thread, thanks.

I'm still wondering why so many of the players who I assume GI irons are designed for end up mixing and matching especially from 6I and longer?

Should we trust Callaway and other OEMs to be offering the best solutions throughout the bag for the average player?

 

[OldandStiff]

It's a balance some work pretty hard at. The 5 gapping at the short end is part of the balance. Can stretch it a bit for some but you have to try to get them back to some kind of loft that works for short play and wedges that are available.

And yes, that player rarely uses a 4i. Companies are getting away from offering long irons like that in their strongest lofted sets.

 

[ddec]

Very good replies on this thread, thanks.

I'm still wondering why so many of the players who I assume GI irons are designed for end up mixing and matching especially from 6I and longer?

Should we trust Callaway and other OEMs to be offering the best solutions throughout the bag for the average player?

I think the number of combo sets out there is still relatively small. Becoming more popular yes, and we see companies designing clubs that really are made to combo well...Titleist and Srixon do it so damn well right now.

 

[Birdman03]

I think the number of combo sets out there is still relatively small. Becoming more popular yes, and we see companies designing clubs that really are made to combo well...Titleist and Srixon do it so damn well right now.

Srixon Mk4 II is their GI set, and can be combined with strong lofted Utility irons up to an 18 deg 2 iron.

Note they mention that keeping stock lofts is best for many players.

So I'm thinking with combo options like this the OEMs would like to sell full iron sets to the average player with no need for hybrids and or 7W/9W.

It would make things simpler for me to play an optimally designed matched set of irons without the need for hybrids or lofted FW clubs.

 

[ddec]

Srixon Mk4 II is their GI set, and can be combined with strong lofted Utilty irons up to an 18 deg 2 iron.

you could build a killer srixon set starting with a UT, adding ZX4, ZX5, and ZX7. To make that easier as part of their design, the topline is the same thickness to help give a similar look.

 

[PuffChippy]

A GI 4 iron like Mavrik may be the same loft as the 2I of yesteryear, but it's shorter length and much better technology so it's easier to hit.

The lengths are surprisingly similar. For example, a 4i Wilson blade from 1990 has a loft of 27 degrees and a length of 37.5 inches. The Mavrik 7i has the same loft but is only 0.5 inches shorter. Put them both on a LM and you'll get fairly similar results on centered hits. As gets tossed around so often, the club specs never really changed that much, we just shifted the number stamped on the heads 2-3 places to the left.

 

[blugold]

Very good replies on this thread, thanks.

I'm still wondering why so many of the players who I assume GI irons are designed for end up mixing and matching especially from 6I and longer?

Should we trust Callaway and other OEMs to be offering the best solutions throughout the bag for the average player?

The assumption that every player is anywhere near identical is a problem. There's NO way any company can offer one solution for every golfer.

If a golfer wants to have the best solution *for them*, Callaway has options. A stock set of irons is about fitting the needs of the middle of the bell curve.

 

[PatsFan]

Why do people care what the lofts are IF the clubs work as intended? Can someone please explain?

 

[golfinnut]

I will also gladly say when I see a company do 41° PW it turns me off. Talking directly to you PING. I could easily game those 430's, but you messed with my head. Therefore....you out.

what if they don't imprint the loft on the club? does that make a difference to you? not just Ping for instance if you went into buying the clubs without knowing the lofts?

 

[Louis_Posture]

Considering that player bags have a set of five to eight iron clubs, I've never understood the concept of stronger lofts. In other words, if the distance to the target is too long for an 8-iron, the player can choose a 7-iron or a 6-iron.

 

[Jman]

Very good replies on this thread, thanks.

I'm still wondering why so many of the players who I assume GI irons are designed for end up mixing and matching especially from 6I and longer?

Should we trust Callaway and other OEMs to be offering the best solutions throughout the bag for the average player?

Yes. But they can’t make people pick the best solutions, so, they provide options.

 

[Paddy1Putt]

I hit those exact clubs and find the distances are gapped really well for my game.

Note I don't use the Mavrik SW or GW

6 iron carry ~164
7 iron carry ~155
8 iron carry ~145
9 iron carry ~131
pw carry ~120
aw carry ~110

Of course like others have mentioned I have custom shafts etc which is part of the equation but I don't find the heads themselves effecting my distances.