Hit Instict any solutions

[leftshot]

As with all swing changes, there is a progression.

1. Learning to incorporate the change without a ball. This alone can have several steps inside of it. Learning the positions to hit. Slow-motion walk-throughs. Mini swings or low-effort versions building up to regular speed and full motion.

2. Learning to incorporate the change with a ball on the practice range. With a "hit" mentality this can be an important intermediate step.

3. Learning to execute the change on the course. This too can have several steps inside of it. With getting rid of the "hit" mentality it is often helpful to explicitly schedule practice rounds where the ONLY objective is to perform the swing change in a new location (on the course). For those rounds you have to get it in your head that the ONLY objective is to learn to execute the swing change on the course. You have to give yourself permission that for that round, you don't care where the ball goes, what your score is (don't even keep score), or anything else. If you can arrange to go out as a single for that 'practice round' or rounds, that can be helpful too. You eliminate the desire to perform in front of others.

You may find yourself needing to go back to the previous step a few times if like a lot of people you get impatient and want to move to the next step before you are really ready.

 

[annsguy]

I found a video on YouTube by Eric Cogorno
Titled: you won’t believe how good you hit driver with this drill.
I’m ball bound, chicken wing,,,, all that plus I’m left handed but have always played right. Too late to change now.
The drill isn’t actually for your issue but it does instinctively get you to hinge going back and going through and to finish the swing.
I do this drill in the garage and think it will help you.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Finishing the swing, both the backswing and the follow through, was a big issue for me last year. That's how I came up with the idea of just swinging a club in the back yard. No ball, no hit impulse. Just swing! All the way back (at least as far as I can), and all the way through. Obviously, at 71 years old I'm nowhere near as flexible or strong as I used to be, but I'm actually not all that bad. What I discovered was that I need to commit to swinging the club! Not a target, not an alignment, just a full swing! Besides, the alignment happened anyway because of years of an ingrained setup routine. Once I started making a more complete swing, the results came.

 

[CTRosarian]

Yes, it also helped me to only do full swings with driver. If I need anything besides full driver distance I need to pull another club.
A full swing is needed for proper tempo, a big issue that I have.

 

[annsguy]

You might also look at Dr. Kwon's rope swing drills. None of these drills are done with a ball and they are effiective. My issue is I try something for a few weeks then move on to the next bunny hole. Biggest suggestion, try something and stick with it.

 

[collegefbfan]

I was thinking of making a new thread, but what I will post here applies. First off, this is a great thread. Tons of things mentioned here are exactly what I do, and many things I don't do but should. However, this is what I am going to say and ask about. I know many will say get lessons (I am) and practice and more practice (I am and do when the rain decides to stop).
In order to hit that good spot or even close (mainly speaking about irons), the individual needs to maintain the same spine angle, the same slight bent knee stance, same swing plane, same grip, etc. I relate it somewhat to baseball. The thing about baseball is the ball is coming at you and can be in a certain zone to be considered a strike. The swing has to be timed correctly to make good+ contact. However, the bat and ball is bigger than the tools used in golf.
The thing about golf is the ball is still, but the golfer is also standing over the ball. Golf swing is more of a body swing (in my mind), not that baseball isn't. The ball is smaller and the good+ spot is smaller. And in my mind, that is a way more difficult task. I just feel defeated in the fact that you want me to bend over the ball the same way every time, same knee bend, same swing arc, and hit a smaller ball with a smaller sweet spot.
What amazes me is when I watch club fittings on YouTube, the fact that the guys are swinging about the same speed within 1 mph or so. Their Trackman numbers are pretty identical even in 10-20 swings.
Those are my hit instinct thoughts. As a beginner, how did you all think through the fact that each part of the swing needs to be pretty much exact?

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

It doesn't necessarily have to be exact, it just needs to be repetitive. There are a lot of pros whose moves would never be taught. Scotty Scheffler's footwork is one example. But they've found something that works for them and they keep doing it. Practice and repetition will help with the muscle memory. When I was learning the game my Uncle, who was really good, cautioned me against copying pro swings from the PGA Tour. He said that a lot of guys swings were very idiosyncratic, and I'd be better off figuring out what worked for me. He said if I wanted to copy something that I should watch the LPGA pros. He felt that their swing were more "textbook".

A lot of guys will still maintain that hitting a baseball is harder than hitting a golf ball. I've heard a couple of stories about that. One was of a conversation that supposedly happened between Joe Dimaggio and Sam Snead. Dimaggio made all the usual points, the ball is moving, you're hitting with a round bat, etc. Then Snead said, that all of that was true, but Dimaggio didn't have to climb up in the stands and play his foul balls!

The other story I heard first hand. The Cleveland Browns were holding their charity outing at a local resort, and the local radio sportstalk host was interviewing players. This was quite a few years ago, and the host was interviewing Greg Pruitt, former Browns running back. He asked him how his golf game was. Pruitt related how he was All State in football, basketball, track, and baseball when he was in high school. Then, when he got to the pros, his teammates introduced him to golf! He said, something like, "That little ball just sits there, not moving, and I can't hit it where I want it to go! This is the most frustrating game I have ever played!"

 

[collegefbfan]

I love stories like that. Thanks for the input folks. Can't wait for my next lesson.

 

[razaar]

I spent most of my youth playing basketball. Actually was a regular member of the State men's team. When I took up golf in my early 20's some of the skills I owned on the court carried over to golf. I never had to look at the ball or target because my awareness skills were highly developed. I used my right arm the same way I shot free throws and jump shots. Pivoting was very similar to single and double fakes with tons of speed off the mark.
The right arm and shoulder movements in free throws was something I learned from Bill Sharman's book " Sharman on shooting". The elbow is under and Infront of the ball and lined up with the back of the rim with the shoulder externally rotated. The power comes from the summation of forces of the body moving upwards with the arm levering upwards from the shoulder and elbow snapping the wrist as the arm straightens and the wrists snap imparting backspin on the ball. Same principal applies in the golf swing. The elbow stays Infront of the hands until late in the downswing with the wrists fully cocked back until the hands are opposite the trail leg. The summation of forces from the rotation of the body provides the power that drives the swing.Anything else is a hitting action.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Maybe a little too complicated of an explanation for those without a physiology degree, but I agree. The power in a golf swing comes from the movement of the body, not just flapping your arms around!

 

[razaar]

Maybe a little too complicated of an explanation for those without a physiology degree, but I agree. The power in a golf swing comes from the movement of the body, not just flapping your arms around!

That was the best I could do to keep it simple. The simple guide to the golf swing is called popular golf instruction which we see on YouTube , golf magazines and instruction books.
I have played this game for 50 years and can honestly say that the standard of "average golfer " has gotten worse. Maximum handicap was 24 for stroke competition and 18 for Stableford and Vs Par competitions. The maximum now is over 40 plus.
The difference as I see it is the social golf explosion following the investment in resort courses worldwide. This may be a subject for another thread.

 

[collegefbfan]

Finishing the swing, both the backswing and the follow through, was a big issue for me last year. That's how I came up with the idea of just swinging a club in the back yard. No ball, no hit impulse. Just swing! All the way back (at least as far as I can), and all the way through. Obviously, at 71 years old I'm nowhere near as flexible or strong as I used to be, but I'm actually not all that bad. What I discovered was that I need to commit to swinging the club! Not a target, not an alignment, just a full swing! Besides, the alignment happened anyway because of years of an ingrained setup routine. Once I started making a more complete swing, the results came.

This sounds like we need to have a drink sometime. I battle the same stuff. I need to practice this also with no ball. Then, we can place balls on the ground and laugh at who looks worse with our swing trying to hit a ball.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

That was the best I could do to keep it simple. The simple guide to the golf swing is called popular golf instruction which we see on YouTube , golf magazines and instruction books.
I have played this game for 50 years and can honestly say that the standard of "average golfer " has gotten worse. Maximum handicap was 24 for stroke competition and 18 for Stableford and Vs Par competitions. The maximum now is over 40 plus.
The difference as I see it is the social golf explosion following the investment in resort courses worldwide. This may be a subject for another thread.

Yet, I understood what you were referring to and totally agree! Oddly enough I received an email today from Performance Golf with a lesson by Martin Chuck showing a student exactly this! How to move your body through the swing. It's a wonderful lesson and I think you can find it on You Tube. I will agree that a lot of You Tube instruction is garbage. Kind of one size fits all. I learned from Golf Digest and the advice of a golfing Uncle who could really play! I payed more attention to my Uncle, and developed the attitude that I would quickly discard ideas from GD that ran counter to what I was doing.

And let's not leave Covid out of this. Golf courses were one of the first recreational opportunities to open up, and people flocked to them! It was a golf boom! I, and my main golf buddy, are retired so we could head out any time in the middle of a weekday to a local course and play! Not anymore! You needed a tee time no matter when.

This sounds like we need to have a drink sometime. I battle the same stuff. I need to practice this also with no ball. Then, we can place balls on the ground and laugh at who looks worse with our swing trying to hit a ball.

I'll tip a bourbon to you right now! Salut! An old saying just popped into my head after typing that. "The swing's the thing!" That is so true. As we age, we lose flexibility. That's just axiomatic. I was a heck of an athlete in my younger days. Today, I can't run across the street! I think that what I was succumbing to was a kind of "surrender" to that loss of flexibility when I should have fought against it, which I eventually did. It's easy to go that way! It's easy to surrender!

What we need to do, as much as it is possible for each of us, is what Dylan Thomas advised in his poem "Do not go gentle into that good night"! We need to "Rage, rage against the dieing of the light!" Let's face it, life is a struggle, at least for most of us. And isn't it interesting that those who have the easiest lives are often the most screwed up? But, would any of us give up this life willingly? Not many! It can be sweet and bitter, but it can always be interesting!

Okay, enough philosophizing!

 

[Slot708]

You can hit as hard as you want.And come OTT as much as you can in the swing.Infact that is the best way to advance a golf ball.Just need to know when you can

 

[razaar]

You can hit as hard as you want.And come OTT as much as you can in the swing.Infact that is the best way to advance a golf ball.Just need to know when you can

Depends on your your definition of OTT. My definition of OTT is internal rotation of the trail shoulder early in the down swing. We can only use IR of the trail shoulder once and given that it is a power move it needs to happen through the impact zone.

 

[Slot708]

Depends on your your definition of OTT. My definition of OTT is internal rotation of the trail shoulder early in the down swing. We can only use IR of the trail shoulder once and given that it is a power move it needs to happen through the impact zone.

All great swings in the history have a cast,a hit and over the top.The difference between them and mere mortals is (when and where it happens).They use the club for how it was designed

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

You can hit as hard as you want.And come OTT as much as you can in the swing.Infact that is the best way to advance a golf ball.Just need to know when you can

My main golf buddy does that all the time off the tee. He'll aim way right, throw it OTT, and pull the ball back into play. Somehow he manages to square the clubface, and hit it where he wants.

 

[Slot708]

My main golf buddy does that all the time off the tee. He'll aim way right, throw it OTT, and pull the ball back into play. Somehow he manages to square the clubface, and hit it where he wants.

 

[hackitup]

He said, something like, "That little ball just sits there, not moving, and I can't hit it where I want it to go! This is the most frustrating game I have ever played!"

That and the other baseball stuff sounds almost exactly like what I used to say. Fastball moving at low 90’s? No problem. Sliders and curves defying physics? Easy peasy. A little ball sitting still on a tee? Impossibly hard. It was frustrating and probably added to my hit impulse.

 

[razaar]

Couldn't hear the video but by definition his outside to in is not OTT. OTT has the elbows separating through the trail shoulder internally rotating. His elbows remain close together through the swing. He is holding right shoulder external rotation until just before impact .

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Besides, the problem he is describing is getting the club stuck behind you, which will lead to early extension and flipping. I had a problem with this and began solving it toward the end of last season. It kind of FELT like OTT, but it really wasn't.

 

[MacTourney]

Some of these YouTube guru instructors remind me of TV evangelists with their presentation. Might be a good rainy-day project, starting a list.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

God help us if they start speaking in tongues! Some of these guys are hard enough to understand as it is!

 

[Desmond]

God help us if they start speaking in tongues! Some of these guys are hard enough to understand as it is!

True ... I have had a tough time with some Scots...

 

[razaar]

God help us if they start speaking in tongues! Some of these guys are hard enough to understand as it is!

If you struggle understanding some of the descriptions I use in my posts then I suggest you google Anatomical movements of the subject body parts - pelvis, hips, shoulders, knee, wrists, spine etc.. That way you will understand the exact movement/s in the post.
I found this information vital to understanding the golf swing and understanding what we are actually doing against what we should be doing. I started in my 60's when I first became aware of its importance to understanding movement.