We've launched the new forums! Read more here

How you would play these two holes in a tournament?

Dazinkster said:
I'm assuming this is a handicap competition. Bearing that in mind with you being off 12.6 I'd go with the conservative option every time. I'm also off a similar handicap and I'd back myself to put a better score up with a short wedge in rather than a tricky bunker shot or being in the water.

Also, in strokeplay...a par is waaaay better than a double/triple. Where as a high risk birdie is only 1 shot better than a par. Just hit GIR's all day and give yourself putts at birdie or 22 for the par
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a senior women's tournament (50 and over) and you are flighted by handicap. The championship flight is 9.5 and under so I will be in the flight above that. It's great experience for me as I have a bit of a nervous problem when I play in individual tournaments. I'm trying to overcome it and just play my game. I usually play really well in team tournaments but there is just something about individual that gets in my head.
 
Hole 5 is the trickier choice and would depend how the round is going so far. Making it one is an intriguing option if you're having a good day out there or if your confident to get up and down from where you're likely to miss.

Hole 18 is called get me into lob wedge range and stick it close to the pin. Personally, I find putting over ridges to be diabolical so any chance I have to get on the right tier to start with is what I want. If the green is anything like the picture it's what I call a flytrap green. It invites you to go for it in 2 with it's utter hugeness and then murders you with a two putt or worse with an evil green layout/pin location.
 
KellyBo said:
Yes, it is a senior women's tournament (50 and over) and you are flighted by handicap. The championship flight is 9.5 and under so I will be in the flight above that. It's great experience for me as I have a bit of a nervous problem when I play in individual tournaments. I'm trying to overcome it and just play my game. I usually play really well in team tournaments but there is just something about individual that gets in my head.
Click to expand...

Awesome, it'll be a great experience I'm sure. One thing for this situation that springs to mind comes from Bob "doc" Rotella (he's probably the most widely used sports psychologist on tour). One of his philosophy's is "aim conservative, swing aggressive", i.e. when you plan out your shot try to bring as little risk in as possible, but when it comes to swinging the club then be aggressive and swing 100% for your target. Thats a big key of his to method of scoring.

Another thought that comes into my mind: your aim is to win the tournament, to do this you'll probably have to shoot a couple under your handicap and on any given round that you shoot under your handicap normally I'd be willing to bet that it is because your wedge play and chipping is dead on. And not because you've hit a couple of massive long shots into greens that happen to have come off. I'm guessing you'll have practiced hard for this event, so trust your swing on the day and trust that if you are to win the competition it'll be with sound course management and a hot putter. Just don't play yourself out of the competition with any large mistakes, if you're up there with a few holes to play all it takes is a couple of nice 10-20ft putts to go down and you'll be in with a chance.

Hmm, sorry for the rambling thoughts there. lol. I wish you all the best in the comp
 
Dazinkster said:
Awesome, it'll be a great experience I'm sure. One thing for this situation that springs to mind comes from Bob "doc" Rotella (he's probably the most widely used sports psychologist on tour). One of his philosophy's is "aim conservative, swing aggressive", i.e. when you plan out your shot try to bring as little risk in as possible, but when it comes to swinging the club then be aggressive and swing 100% for your target. Thats a big key of his to method of scoring.

Another thought that comes into my mind: your aim is to win the tournament, to do this you'll probably have to shoot a couple under your handicap and on any given round that you shoot under your handicap normally I'd be willing to bet that it is because your wedge play and chipping is dead on. And not because you've hit a couple of massive long shots into greens that happen to have come off. I'm guessing you'll have practiced hard for this event, so trust your swing on the day and trust that if you are to win the competition it'll be with sound course management and a hot putter. Just don't play yourself out of the competition with any large mistakes, if you're up there with a few holes to play all it takes is a couple of nice 10-20ft putts to go down and you'll be in with a chance.

Hmm, sorry for the rambling thoughts there. lol. I wish you all the best in the comp
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips! I need all of them I can get. I love Bob Rotella books. I've read a couple. I have been practicing really hard with my short game and putting lately and I've had a few rounds below my handicap in the last week or two. I know that is the secret to my success. I'm getting much wiser with course management too but still take too many chances sometimes. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post!!
 
First hole it depends what club you would be using to get there. I know my driver would plow right through that green if I could reach it in one. That said, if the conditions were favorable I would go for it. A nice headwind would be helpful. Even with an elevated tee it would be a gamble for me as to where the ball would land. Could plug in the green or take a bounce and wind up in trouble.

2nd hole I would go for it in 2 based on where my drive wound up.

Lot depends on the greens as well. You just don't want to be in certain spots on some greens. Hole on my usual course has a 2 tiered green and if you are on the tier opposite the pin, you're probably 3 putting. Laying up would give you better options as to where you will be putting.

Good luck! Sounds like a awesome opportunity for you.
 
I'd go for it on the par 4, I don't mind bunkers.

I'd lay up on the par 5. I do mind water
 
cj3ap2 said:
I'd go for it on the par 4, I don't mind bunkers.

I'd lay up on the par 5. I do mind water
Click to expand...

Same, plus, how many times do you have the opportunity to go for a hole in one on a par 4? For me, the answer would be zero! I'm taking aim at that one every day all day long.
 
I'm trying to remember those holes, haven't played Brookstone in several years. But on any risk/reward hole, I hit the club I'm most comfortable with. Some days the driver feels good and I hit that, other days maybe the three iron. If I get on the tee and have the least doubt, I change clubs.

I played a course today in South Dakota with four short par 4s with lots of trouble but the driver was working and I hit it three times and made two birdies including one two-putt birdie. On the fourth short par 4 it didn't suit my eye at all so I put the driver back in the bag and hit the three iron leaving PW which I hit to 2 feet and made that birdie.
 
I'd play to the fairway and plan on a 75-110 wedge to the green. Hope for a good wedge and a 1 putt. Pars win tourneys too.
 
I'd go for the green on the 5th, aiming for the safest area. On the 18th, it depends on where the hazards are. If I have a long carry over water, I'm playing it safe. If there's an opening to the green, I'm aiming for that on my 2nd.

Play to your strengths and what you feel most confident doing.
 
4-iron and LW on the par 4.
Driver and long-to-mid iron on the par 5.
 
for my game...

i'm laying up on the par 4 because even with a lay up it's still a great opportunity to score. on the par 5 i'm going for it. with a good to mediocre shot i'm on or very close in 2 and have a good chance at birdie or better. with a slight miss i'm still clearing the water and possibly in a bunker. i'll take just about any but the most treacherous greenside bunkers in 2 on a par 5. i trust myself to put it just as close from a greenside bunker as i would from the fairway at 100yds.
 
I'm pretty conservative anymore with my shots, so I would likely layup with the longest shot possible to give me either a full wedge in or a short bump and run on the first hole. What I don't want is that little 40 yard 608 wedge that may or may not spin. On the par 5 it comes down to having a place to miss. I have a similar par 5 I play that has not right or left thats safe, so its go long, short or you had better hit center. I generally just go long and hope, lol.
 
KellyBo said:
Playing in a ladies tournament soon and thought it would be fun to see how you would play these two holes.

I'll probably be playing a practice round so that will help but just wanted you guys/gals to play along with me and give me your thoughts. Assume I have the distance to reach in one and two on both holes and I will be playing red tees (I think).

Hole 5 / Par 4
It is Larry Nelson's design philosophy that every golf course should contain at least one great "short par 4." The fifth hole is just that at 320 yards. The tee is elevated some sixty feet above the green and is easily within reach with a long, daring tee shot. For those who gamble for this green in one, there are plenty of strategically placed hazards (trees, sand and grass bunkers) to punish wayward tee shots. Simply put, those who stand on this tee with a driver can find a six as easily as an eagle or a birdie. For those who sacrifice distance from the tee and choose to hit an iron, a well guarded green becomes the challenge for a longer second shot.

Championship Tees (Back) - 320 yards
Blue Tees - 296 yards
White Tees - 272 yards
Red Tees - 208 yards






Hole 18 / Par 5
Brookstone's signature 18 provides the definition of a risk-reward golf hole. A short par 5 at 515 yards, this hole provides a player who hits a successful tee shot an opportunity to gamble for the green in two, trying to avoid a pond and large bunker left of the green and numerous bunkers to the right. The 18th green is 7650 square feet, making it the largest here at Brookstone. It has four distinct tiers, proving a number of great pin locations. Possibly the best finishing hole in the state, there can be a birdie or eagle waiting at 18 to solidify your round, however, bogeys and worse seem to loom even after a perfect tee shot.

Championship Tees (Back) - 515 yards
Blue Tees - 478 yards
White Tees - 449 yards
Red Tees - 415 yards



Fun thread KB!
Par 4--This is a no brainer for me as I don't hit the ball 300 yards. I layup with Mashie and PW/GW all day long. I am beyond confident that I will be within 10 feet with those 2 clubs
Par 5--I hit driver and take it from there. If I have anything more than Mashie coming in I layup. If I have Mashie I might go for it. Depends how I am hitting the Mashie that day
Click to expand...
 
Most everyone’s course management is based on being a plus handicap and driving over 270 yards in the air.

If you ever get play a lot with successful seniors both male and female, you will discover that their course management is to be patient and avoid extra strokes instead of being aggressive and lowering their score with birdies.
Another way of wording it is that they are serious about playing fairway and greens and getting up and down with a chip and a putt. They only play their most dependable shots.

Maybe you shouldn’t read this paragraph. If you are like many who think and analize too much it might help. I don’t know if this fits you, but If you look at “rule of thumb” which can tell a lot and misses a lot. Your handicap is about 13 meaning your better scores are 13 strokes over a base score of 75 which is 3 strokes over par 72. Meaning your better scores are 16 strokes over par and around 88ish. And your average scores are about 18 strokes over par around 90ish. 72 plus 18 = 90. That amonts to a stroke average above par per hole in extra strokes. But more likely you have a few bad holes that give you the extra strokes. If you avoid 6 extra strokes that come from impatience and being too aggressive you would score 12 over par, 84ish and have a handicap of maybe 9. But lets not be greedy, lets just eliminate the easy to avoid penalty strokes.

In summary: Play within your best ability and always play safe. Always hit the smooth easy tempo shots that you expect go at least a club shorter and straighter than that rare “best” with that club. Try to play only your favorite clubs and your favorite shots. Don’t think about score till you are finished. Be patient and enjoy yourself.
 
neophyte said:
Most everyone’s course management is based on being a plus handicap and driving over 270 yards in the air.

If you ever get play a lot with successful seniors both male and female, you will discover that their course management is to be patient and avoid extra strokes instead of being aggressive and lowering their score with birdies.
Another way of wording it is that they are serious about playing fairway and greens and getting up and down with a chip and a putt. They only play their most dependable shots.

Maybe you shouldn’t read this paragraph. If you are like many who think and analize too much it might help. I don’t know if this fits you, but If you look at “rule of thumb” which can tell a lot and misses a lot. Your handicap is about 13 meaning your better scores are 13 strokes over a base score of 75 which is 3 strokes over par 72. Meaning your better scores are 16 strokes over par and around 88ish. And your average scores are about 18 strokes over par around 90ish. 72 plus 18 = 90. That amonts to a stroke average above par per hole in extra strokes. But more likely you have a few bad holes that give you the extra strokes. If you avoid 6 extra strokes that come from impatience and being too aggressive you would score 12 over par, 84ish and have a handicap of maybe 9. But lets not be greedy, lets just eliminate the easy to avoid penalty strokes.

In summary: Play within your best ability and always play safe. Always hit the smooth easy tempo shots that you expect go at least a club shorter and straighter than that rare “best” with that club. Try to play only your favorite clubs and your favorite shots. Don’t think about score till you are finished. Be patient and enjoy yourself.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying. I just finished a round with a lady who is in her early 60's. I was flying right by her on all the drives. I was on the green in 2 putting for eagle, ended up 3 putting. She was on the green in 4 and made par. We both birdied #1, mine was from a 2 putt, hers was from a good chip off the green. She shot a 74, I shot an 85. It was her best score ever and none of us even realized it until after we were finished. She was in shock. Her short game was so good. Mine was terrible today. Last week I shot 77 and 78 because my short game was good. It's all about the short game and playing smart.
 
KellyBo just make sure you fuel up with good nutritious breakfast. I would recommend a large bowl of grits and an even larger bowl of fruit loops. The rest should take care of itself. Oh and borrow OG DST launcher hybrids.
 
Truetemper said:
KellyBo just make sure you fuel up with good nutritious breakfast. I would recommend a large bowl of grits and an even larger bowl of fruit loops. The rest should take care of itself. Oh and borrow OG DST launcher hybrids.
Click to expand...

Haha. You sure are fascinated by those grits I had at the outing. I don't remember having the Fruit Loops though!
 
You already know what to do! I am looking forward to to hearing about all the good experiences of your tournament.
 
neophyte said:
Most everyone’s course management is based on being a plus handicap and driving over 270 yards in the air.

If you ever get play a lot with successful seniors both male and female, you will discover that their course management is to be patient and avoid extra strokes instead of being aggressive and lowering their score with birdies.
Another way of wording it is that they are serious about playing fairway and greens and getting up and down with a chip and a putt. They only play their most dependable shots.


In summary: Play within your best ability and always play safe. Always hit the smooth easy tempo shots that you expect go at least a club shorter and straighter than that rare “best” with that club. Try to play only your favorite clubs and your favorite shots. Don’t think about score till you are finished. Be patient and enjoy yourself.
Click to expand...

There is a time for both playing safe and playing for birdies. Don't be afraid to score.
 
In competition it may be more important to know yourself and your game than to know the course. What is your "miss"? If your miss with a particular club will put you in the water choose another club. If you are an aggressive personality, go for it.

If you have a good short game, trust it; know that you can get up and down and rely on wedges and putting to make you birdies.

You must also be aware of your competition. If you are at the low end of the handicaps in your flight you start out several to many shots behind; you might want to be more aggressive. If you are on the receiving end of handicap strokes par is your friend and avoid the big numbers at all cost.

Most of all, don't beat yourself; make your opponents play their best and HAVE FUN.
 
I have a tee time this afternoon at 12:10 and I'm reading back over this thread. My game hasn't been too great the last two weeks (bad crick in my already terrible neck that is finally getting better) so I'm thinking I will just play safe and smart today.

I played at a tough course Saturday and for the first time used a 6 iron off the tee and then a 7 iron and made par on a sneaky par 4 that looks so easy to birdie but is loaded with trouble. I have used anything from a 5 wood to a driver in the past with sometimes really bad results because of all the trouble. I will remember to use smart course management today.

Thanks for all your help!!!
 
Good luck KB!!
 
Chunkylover77 said:
Good luck KB!!
Click to expand...

Thanks Chunky! Lord knows I need it, especially the way I've been putting. I hear these greens are some of the fastest around.
 
I putt far better on fast greens. Its the slow ones that give me fits:banghead:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top