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Is Andy Reid a great coach?

Andy Reid's challenge flag isn't red, it's just covered in bar-b-q sauce.
 
Smallville said:
Again, no championships = not a great coach. A good, even very good coach to be sure. But to lose the big game four times doesn't show greatness. He got there sure, but he didn't seal the deal even ONE time. Levy was not a great NFL coach. He did win two championships in Canada, so he should be considered a great CFL coach. The NFL, not so much.
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I played a year in the CFL, go Argos, and 9 in the Mid States Minor Football League, MFL. (We thought MFL stood for something else) A Championship is a championship. The CFL, was not, is not and will never be the NFL, but it is a level of competitive sport most players and coaches do not reach.

IMO, Levy was a great coach. Getting to the Super Bowel 4 times was more of a challenge than winning one Super Bowel. Ditka, Madden and so many other one win wonders. IMO, Ditka and Madden sucked as coaches. I have friends who played for both. Living in Chicago I watched Ditka get out coached week after week. The 80's Bears could have won 3 - 4 more Super Bowels with Levy.
 
coughlin03 said:
I played a year in the CFL, go Argos, and 9 in the Mid States Minor Football League, MFL. (We thought MFL stood for something else) A Championship is a championship. The CFL, was not, is not and will never be the NFL, but it is a level of competitive sport most players and coaches do not reach.

IMO, Levy was a great coach. Getting to the Super Bowel 4 times was more of a challenge than winning one Super Bowel. Ditka, Madden and so many other one win wonders. IMO, Ditka and Madden sucked as coaches. I have friends who played for both. Living in Chicago I watched Ditka get out coached week after week. The 80's Bears could have won 3 - 4 more Super Bowels with Levy.
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I do have to agree that winning one championship does not a great coach make. Multiple championships, a lot more wins than losses in the regular season, getting deep into the playoffs often is the minimum criteria of what makes a great coach, IMO. Levy didn't win any championships. Not in the NFL anyway. Not a great coach. Sorry. And an MFL Championship, great as that may be, is not on the same level as and NFL Championship. It's an achievement, to be sure, but a great minor league coach? Come one. If he is that great he should be coaching in the NFL. And winning championships there.
 
Esox said:
Holmgren was out coached by Shanahan in that game. The players know it. To this day, Dorsey Levens won't speak of the game. He had a great first half, and Holmgren stopped running the ball. He was going to throw it no matter what, even though the Denver defensive backs, especially the safety, Atwater I believe, were all over the short passing game. Chumura, the creep, talks about it often. Sherm Lewis tried to talk to Holmgren, and he would not listen.

Pisses me off to this day.

Kevin
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He sure did. That was Shanny at his best.

blugold said:
I agree, but you can't blame the era. But Mike Shanahan doesn't stack up to those four.

I am not arguing whether or not I would want Mike S to coach a team I was GMing, I am just saying that he is not an all-timer. He is the closest that the 90s had though.
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According to what? All time wins? SB wins? I mean you keep using Belechik as the example and I have to ask why? First it was because Shanny had Elway and otherwise stunk. Yet the same argument can be made for Bill. Hello, time in Cleveland? Sure its an opinion, and frankly I dont like the guy, but you simply cannot choose Bill B if you discount Shanahan.

Tale of the tape. Belichik has 161 wins. Shanahan has 151 wins. One has 3 rings and the other 2. Both have 5 losses in the playoffs. Both won with HOF QBs and did little else without them.
 
this is alway a debate around these parts. most Eagles fans here hate Reid despite his 'success' His pressers are boring, he never tells you the truth, his game day management skills are awful, and his challenge ability is 'challenging' at best. But the players love playing for him and ownnership loves him so he's not going anywhere for a long time.

all that being said, he's a good coach, not a great one
 
Spoken like someone who has never been in a championship winning or loosing locker room as part of a team. I have been in both. This just opinion. Mine is based on experience, people I know who played on both CFL and NFL championships.

My high school coach was a great coach. We lost the city championship in Soldier Field by 3 points to a much better team, they had 75 dressed players, we had 29, they had 8 coaches and a head coach, we had 1 assistant and a head coach. Losing the championship does not mean you are not a great coach.

My last game we won the League Championship. Our coach was less than average. In fact he was ejected 3 times during the season and once in the playoffs. His skill was getting us ready at practice and making great lineups.

Smallville said:
I do have to agree that winning one championship does not a great coach make. Multiple championships, a lot more wins than losses in the regular season, getting deep into the playoffs often is the minimum criteria of what makes a great coach, IMO. Levy didn't win any championships. Not in the NFL anyway. Not a great coach. Sorry. And an MFL Championship, great as that may be, is not on the same level as and NFL Championship. It's an achievement, to be sure, but a great minor league coach? Come one. If he is that great he should be coaching in the NFL. And winning championships there.
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coughlin03 said:
Spoken like someone who has never been in a championship winning or loosing locker room as part of a team. I have been in both. This just opinion. Mine is based on experience, people I know who played on both CFL and NFL championships.

My high school coach was a great coach. We lost the city championship in Soldier Field by 3 points to a much better team, they had 75 dressed players, we had 29, they had 8 coaches and a head coach, we had 1 assistant and a head coach. Losing the championship does not mean you are not a great coach.

My last game we won the League Championship. Our coach was less than average. In fact he was ejected 3 times during the season and once in the playoffs. His skill was getting us ready at practice and making great lineups.
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So what makes a great coach? How does winning equate to the Bill B theory then? Was he not a great coach in Cleveland and just became one in New England? Or did Tony Dungy become one when he won in Indy despite getting out coached for 3 straight years in Tampa in the big game? Coaching is all about the sum of your players at the highest level because frankly they are all great coaches. Was Tom Landry not a great coach in his last few years in Dallas? Did he forget how to coach?

I get that you have played in the CFL, and that you believe that gives you the ability to have a better judge of things on this level, but others have spent time around coaches and may have different views of the situation. I find that first part of your statement rather condescending personally. Just my opinion of course.
 
JB said:
I get that you have played in the CFL, and that you believe that gives you the ability to have a better judge of things on this level, but others have spent time around coaches and may have different views of the situation. I find that first part of your statement rather condescending personally. Just my opinion of course.
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It would have surprised me if he hadn't sunk to that level. I was waiting for it to happen, but I must say I didn't think it would take him that long to say it.
 
Sorry for being snooty. I was and should not have been. Please accept my appologies.

I am a very average golfer. Golf Analogy: My opinion on Greg Norman versusTiger Woods is far less valuable than any PGA player who had tour card. Playing on tour is different than playing for fun. Watching TV is different from playing for years, watching game film every day for years, knowing people who work with or play with Pro athletes.

JB said:
So what makes a great coach? How does winning equate to the Bill B theory then? Was he not a great coach in Cleveland and just became one in New England? Or did Tony Dungy become one when he won in Indy despite getting out coached for 3 straight years in Tampa in the big game? Coaching is all about the sum of your players at the highest level because frankly they are all great coaches. Was Tom Landry not a great coach in his last few years in Dallas? Did he forget how to coach?

I get that you have played in the CFL, and that you believe that gives you the ability to have a better judge of things on this level, but others have spent time around coaches and may have different views of the situation. I find that first part of your statement rather condescending personally. Just my opinion of course.
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Look at what Bill B has done in New England this year. Tons of players on IR which has led to rookies and unproven players starting. Yet they are sitting pretty with only 2 losses. Thats a great coach IMO. When you can plug players in and keep winning you've got a very good system in place and a very good coach running it very well. Andy Reid has proven to be a very good coach and hes been consistent too. He made McNab an above average QB. But McNab couldnt make Reid a great coach by winning the big one. I think coach and QB work hand in hand.
 
coughlin03 said:
Sorry for being snooty. I was and should not have been. Please accept my appologies.

I am a very average golfer. Golf Analogy: My opinion on Greg Norman versusTiger Woods is far less valuable than any PGA player who had tour card. Playing on tour is different than playing for fun. Watching TV is different from playing for years, watching game film every day for years, knowing people who work with or play with Pro athletes.
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Yet you might not be the only one that has spent time around players and coaches, but are assuming so. I know plenty of players that could not tell anything about a coach. Yet they can perform. Just like I know hundreds of media members and citizens that know far more. Its not black and white.
 
JB said:
According to what? All time wins? SB wins? I mean you keep using Belechik as the example and I have to ask why? First it was because Shanny had Elway and otherwise stunk. Yet the same argument can be made for Bill. Hello, time in Cleveland? Sure its an opinion, and frankly I dont like the guy, but you simply cannot choose Bill B if you discount Shanahan.

Tale of the tape. Belichik has 161 wins. Shanahan has 151 wins. One has 3 rings and the other 2. Both have 5 losses in the playoffs. Both won with HOF QBs and did little else without them.
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For me, since this a subjective argument, Shanahan has been been awful since Elway left. Belichik was awful before Tom Brady. Those Cleveland teams also had awful players. Landry and Lombardi couldn't have won with those guys. Shanahan is just not that great of a coach in my eyes. I just don't see him out coaching anybody anymore. Those Denver teams were great. But history since those teams has been generous to Mike.
 
coughlin03 said:
Spoken like someone who has never been in a championship winning or loosing locker room as part of a team. I have been in both. This just opinion. Mine is based on experience, people I know who played on both CFL and NFL championships.
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coughlin03 said:
Sorry for being snooty. I was and should not have been. Please accept my appologies.

I am a very average golfer. Golf Analogy: My opinion on Greg Norman versusTiger Woods is far less valuable than any PGA player who had tour card. Playing on tour is different than playing for fun. Watching TV is different from playing for years, watching game film every day for years, knowing people who work with or play with Pro athletes.
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JB said:
Yet you might not be the only one that has spent time around players and coaches, but are assuming so. I know plenty of players that could not tell anything about a coach. Yet they can perform. Just like I know hundreds of media members and citizens that know far more. Its not black and white.
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I was going to respond to this, and had a real long post typed out, but decided, why bother? He's obviously more expert at this than I, being a former pro athlete and all, that I couldn't possibly have spent the last 25 years around coaches and players in football and non football settings, so I just deleted it and will just move on at this point. Sorry for blowing up Esox's thread.
 
Hey JB - Is/was Don Shula a better coach than Shanahan? I would have a tough time making that argument. You are swaying me off of my argument on Shanahan not being an all-time great, but too me Bill Belichik is still a better coach right now.
 
blugold, I dont disagree that Bill is a better coach right now, but that was not your argument. You said all time opposed to right now.
 
Yeah I'm moving off of my stance that Mike Shanahan is not an all-timer. But he is definately below Belichik on the list of greats, but he is WAY above Andy Reid. The fact that the Redskins have won as many games this year is strongly correlated to Mike S being their coach.
 
Can you clarify how he is above him in your opinion? I showed the stats which are almost identical. THey both struggled in HUGE proportions without their star QB. How is one better than the other? I have a feeling many feel that way because they have a short memory.
 
Andy Reid is a good coach. Am I an expert? No, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night
 
I hate to jump into this.......but I will anyway. The way I see it is that the only way a coach becomes "great" is when he wins multiple championships. The only way a coach can win multiple championships is with a great quarterback. They must co-exist and without each other they're not on the short list like Belichick and Knoll etc.... Winning one title doesn't make a great coach...ie Brian Billick.
 
stop drinking on the job!
OEM Kevin said:
He'd probably be a great coach if he had Tony Romo as his QB. Maybe even have that elusive SB by now.
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Pirate,
That means this list is not considered great by you?

Levy - Only coach with 4 straight league championships and was 17-6 all time against Don Shula.

Hank Stram - Been to two SB's, won one. Considered by many to be the most creative NFL coach of all time. Created the 2 TE set, and I-Formation.

George Allen - Not sure I even need to say anything about him. Responsible for bringing back two dead franchises and I think 3rd or 4th all time in wins.

Bill Cowher - Too recent to have to list his accomplishments.

John Madden - Got to 100 wins in 10 seasons. 103-32 in the regular season is astonishing in 10 years.



Heck, Landry and Shula only won 2 I believe and they were there for 20 + years.
 
JB said:
Can you clarify how he is above him in your opinion? I showed the stats which are almost identical. THey both struggled in HUGE proportions without their star QB. How is one better than the other? I have a feeling many feel that way because they have a short memory.
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I think BB is above in that his success has gone on for a longer period of time. In the span on 7 Years went to the Super Bowl times. Mike Shanahan has won two Super Bowls. But has won exactly 1 playoff game outside of those two Super Bowl years. Belichik has put up more post season success over a longer period of time.
 
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