Let's talk about swing speed.

Hell yeah!!! Started week 4 tonight and got a PB in the “Max out” swings at the end!!!

117mph
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Now we’re cooking with gas here. @OldandStiff does he need his own spicy trajectory music?
 
My new PR for all out with the blast sensor. Of course I played like crap later. Had trouble finding my swing on the course. Not sure if I’ll get to level 2 or not. I top at level one and just do once a week on an off day.
 

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It's addicting isn't it?
You definitely called this being addictive. Tonight is a speed training night and I’m already looking forward to trying to top 117.
 
You definitely called this being addictive. Tonight is a speed training night and I’m already looking forward to trying to top 117.
One of the maybe unintended benefits of the SuperSpeed and Stack type programs with the different swings and weights is most sessions you at least have a chance at a personal best, which keeps you wanting to do it
 
I drove a 273 y back edge of a green today with a group ahead of me walking up to it, so that was a thing.


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I’ve got to account for this new speed moving forward.
Guys out here trying to turn every par 4 into a short par 4. Love it 👊
 
One of the maybe unintended benefits of the SuperSpeed and Stack type programs with the different swings and weights is most sessions you at least have a chance at a personal best, which keeps you wanting to do it
And people complain about sim golf not being “real” golf. Seems to me that chasing espeed is even more a bastardization of the game. Espeed has become an entity all its own, especially when so many people aren’t seeing a direct correlation to on-course performance.
 
And people complain about sim golf not being “real” golf. Seems to me that chasing espeed is even more a bastardization of the game. Espeed has become an entity all its own, especially when so many people aren’t seeing a direct correlation to on-course performance.
Can you clarify what you mean by chasing espeed?

Also, where are you seeing lots of people not seeing a direct correlation to on course performance?
 
Can you clarify what you mean by chasing espeed?

Also, where are you seeing lots of people not seeing a direct correlation to on course performance?
Sure, espeed is what you get on your portable launch monitor when doing speed sessions without a ball. Chasing espeed, then, is going after your personal best in these sessions. Again, without a ball. It seems for many that espeed sometimes becomes an end unto itself. Nothing wrong with that.

As for the second point, everything is anecdotal at this point, but on this board and on the other big, unmentionable one, there’s lots of people expressing frustration that their speed session gains don’t always immediately translate to on course performance. Virtually every thread on this topic (and there are many) has posters who fall into this category.

In no way am I arguing that speed training doesn’t work, or that it has no value. But it clearly doesn’t work for everybody, and stick (or Stack) sessions aren’t the only way to increase swing speed. Par4success is a good source of info on this.
 
Sure, espeed is what you get on your portable launch monitor when doing speed sessions without a ball. Chasing espeed, then, is going after your personal best in these sessions. Again, without a ball. It seems for many that espeed sometimes becomes an end unto itself. Nothing wrong with that.

As for the second point, everything is anecdotal at this point, but on this board and on the other big, unmentionable one, there’s lots of people expressing frustration that their speed session gains don’t always immediately translate to on course performance. Virtually every thread on this topic (and there are many) has posters who fall into this category.

In no way am I arguing that speed training doesn’t work, or that it has no value. But it clearly doesn’t work for everybody, and stick (or Stack) sessions aren’t the only way to increase swing speed. Par4success is a good source of info on this.
The thought, at least for me , is that the non-ball swings where I’m chasing what you refer to as “E speed” is raising the floor of my overall on course swing speed. In the three weeks I’ve been doing this it has raised my own course swing speed I’ve gone from averaging right around 230 to 235 with driver to frequently hitting 250 based off my Grint club tracking. It’s also raising the ceiling with my irons as well.

That said, broken another PB with tonight’s speed training session
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The thought, at least for me , is that the non-ball swings where I’m chasing what you refer to as “E speed” is raising the floor of my overall on course swing speed. In the three weeks I’ve been doing this it has raised my own course swing speed I’ve gone from averaging right around 230 to 235 with driver to frequently hitting 250 based off my Grint club tracking. It’s also raising the ceiling with my irons as well.

That said, broken another PB with tonight’s speed training session
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I think that’s where some of the disappointment comes from, not recognizing that while they’re not hitting there max speed while playing, they are at least raising their floor a bit. Introducing a ball into the equation definitely affects their cruising speed.
 
I can’t figure out how to swing fast either. I’m not a big man by any means but I do lift weights and am relatively strong for my size (can bench more than my own body weight etc). I swing in the low 80s but then again I’ve only been playing for two shortened (New York) seasons.
 
I think that’s where some of the disappointment comes from, not recognizing that while they’re not hitting there max speed while playing, they are at least raising their floor a bit. Introducing a ball into the equation definitely affects their cruising speed.
Indeed here is where the problem of the understanding of the training is. The idea is to raise your MAX swing speed which in turn raises your cruising / on course speed. Eg. Your max used to be 90mph with driver, then you would usually swing around 90% of that on course. So your on course speed is ~81mph. You do some training and you raise your max to 100mph, now at 90% on course swing, your cruising speed is 90mph etc. You keep raising that max and the cruising speed just gets higher also.

It generally boils down to understanding how the programming works. Also to note, it's a known thing that when just doing air swings with driver or whatever this is going to be faster than a swing with balls by a few mph. (it's talked about in one of the videos on the Stack website).

Personally for me, I've gone from cruising at ~95 mph and I am around 107mph ( with a ball) and I am seeing increased distance on the course too.
 
I can’t figure out how to swing fast either. I’m not a big man by any means but I do lift weights and am relatively strong for my size (can bench more than my own body weight etc). I swing in the low 80s but then again I’ve only been playing for two shortened (New York) seasons.
Are you doing any actual speed training or just lifting weights? Whilst the gym is absolutely beneficial, it really should be combined with actual dedicated speed training programming. Plenty of training programs out there, I've tried three now and I am seeing the best results and motivation from The Stack personally.

There's a whole seperate thread about it. If you don't have a device and want to look at the Stack, one of us can give you a code for $50 off. full disclosure, if you use a code we give you, we get a year of app access added to our sub. Another thing to note, Stack is IOS only at present, Android is supposedly under development.
(That thread is 3 years long now, so you can probably skip to later pages to see what people are up to)
 
Are you doing any actual speed training or just lifting weights? Whilst the gym is absolutely beneficial, it really should be combined with actual dedicated speed training programming. Plenty of training programs out there, I've tried three now and I am seeing the best results and motivation from The Stack personally.

There's a whole seperate thread about it. If you don't have a device and want to look at the Stack, one of us can give you a code for $50 off. full disclosure, if you use a code we give you, we get a year of app access added to our sub. Another thing to note, Stack is IOS only at present, Android is supposedly under development.
(That thread is 3 years long now, so you can probably skip to later pages to see what people are up to)
I haven’t tried to do any swing speed training of yet. I think I’ve just been so focused on setup and takeaway that I’m not swinging hard enough on the follow through.
 
We are a month in. I just finished my 4th week of Superspeed training. I’ve got to say I’m shocked and very happy with where things are right now.

A month ago when I was testing out 2024 Drivers my “on course” cruising speed was at 94-95 mph per the monitor. A couple days ago I went and swung the Darkspeed drivers again and was consistently cruising at 100mph even touched 103. 7 iron speed is also up. When I did my 243 fitting I was at 76mph. Today when I used the Mizuno shaft optimizer at fitting day I was 81.76 mph.

My guy @ryang13 told me that if I stuck with it I could easily reach my goal of a 10mph increase.


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We are halfway there with 6 weeks to go. I’m freaking pumped.
 
We are a month in. I just finished my 4th week of Superspeed training. I’ve got to say I’m shocked and very happy with where things are right now.

A month ago when I was testing out 2024 Drivers my “on course” cruising speed was at 94-95 mph per the monitor. A couple days ago I went and swung the Darkspeed drivers again and was consistently cruising at 100mph even touched 103. 7 iron speed is also up. When I did my 243 fitting I was at 76mph. Today when I used the Mizuno shaft optimizer at fitting day I was 81.76 mph.

My guy @ryang13 told me that if I stuck with it I could easily reach my goal of a 10mph increase.


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We are halfway there with 6 weeks to go. I’m freaking pumped.

Dude. I love where this is headed for you, 10 MPH might be on the low end. Gonna crush it this season 🔥
 
Sure, espeed is what you get on your portable launch monitor when doing speed sessions without a ball. Chasing espeed, then, is going after your personal best in these sessions. Again, without a ball. It seems for many that espeed sometimes becomes an end unto itself. Nothing wrong with that.

As for the second point, everything is anecdotal at this point, but on this board and on the other big, unmentionable one, there’s lots of people expressing frustration that their speed session gains don’t always immediately translate to on course performance. Virtually every thread on this topic (and there are many) has posters who fall into this category.

In no way am I arguing that speed training doesn’t work, or that it has no value. But it clearly doesn’t work for everybody, and stick (or Stack) sessions aren’t the only way to increase swing speed. Par4success is a good source of info on this.

I get e-mails from Performance Golf and lately there has been a woman instructor kind of making these points. It's your body that moves your arms and hands, that move the club. She also did swing analyses of some of her students comparing their practice swings, without a ball, to their swings when they are actually hitting a ball. And it's like "Never the twain shall meet!" Their practice swings were gorgeous! Fluid, on plane, and rhythmic. Put a ball in front of them it all fell apart! It seems that the hit impulse took over.

About halfway through last golf season my game was crap! Short and crooked. Then somewhere I ran into the old idea of "swing the club and just let the ball get in the way". My main golf buddy tried to help with this telling me, "You're not making a swing! You're slugging at the ball!" So, I started taking a club out in the back yard and just swinging it. I'm 71, and guys my age like to complain about loss of flexibility, and in many cases that's true. But I sometimes think that we also need to be concerned with laziness!

True, I'm not as flexible as I was 30-40 years ago, but I'm more flexible that I was willing to admit or use! On the course my hands went from waist high to waist high and I was capable of much more than that. Once I started employing a more complete swing on the course, my performance and scores improved dramatically.

It makes sense physically. The farther your hands are from the ball when you start your downswing, the longer they have to gather speed. And you can make your transition in a more leisurely fashion, not feeling the urge to have to "jump" at the ball. A longer backswing gives you room to accelerate. I think this allows for a more accurate strike. You can have great clubhead speed, but if you're hitting it all over the face, how good can that be?
 
It’s kind of crazy how big of a difference rotating my hips has made. Before I was right around 88-89mph with a 7i and after learning to engage my hips more I’m up to 92-93mph….and that’s in the offseason while barely swinging
 
I haven't read all the thread so I'm unsure if the importance of the ribcage in creating clubhead speed has been mentioned.
For body rotation to be effective in the swing there needs to be good separation between the ribcage and the pelvis. The ribcage needs to rotate more than the pelvis by quite a bit. In a powerful swing the ribcage performs like a large spring.
 
I haven't read all the thread so I'm unsure if the importance of the ribcage in creating clubhead speed has been mentioned.
For body rotation to be effective in the swing there needs to be good separation between the ribcage and the pelvis. The ribcage needs to rotate more than the pelvis by quite a bit. In a powerful swing the ribcage performs like a large spring.
I dont think we’ve talked a lot about ‘coil’ in the golf swing but I’ve found it’s critical in my speed training to swing the speedsticks fast.

I’ve been thinking of it more as my thoracic spine than ribcage though but I guess the feels are similar. Trail hip depth is important but rotating just a touch more and get my spine square to the target is the feel I’ve been going for. That ‘coils’ the spring and as long as I start my downswing from the ground up I can just explode through impact.
 
I dont think we’ve talked a lot about ‘coil’ in the golf swing but I’ve found it’s critical in my speed training to swing the speedsticks fast.

I’ve been thinking of it more as my thoracic spine than ribcage though but I guess the feels are similar. Trail hip depth is important but rotating just a touch more and get my spine square to the target is the feel I’ve been going for. That ‘coils’ the spring and as long as I start my downswing from the ground up I can just explode through impact.
You are not getting it. What do you do with your ribcage when walking? It separates from your hips when they externally and internally rotate. The golf swing is rotational walking is locomotive. Separation of the pelvis and ribcage needs to be present in both for power. The separation in the golf swing needs to occur during the second half of the backswing when the hips reach their lock and again in transition during the directional change of the pelvis.
 
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