PGA & USGA Tee It Forward Initiative

[Golf 'N Gator]

Maybe so, but AVERAGE DRIVING DISTANCE is still AVERAGE DRIVING DISTANCE, no?

Like usual, you missed the point.

Oh I understand it and agree with it 100%. I'm just thinking some guys that beat balls at the range and get one out of five to go 250 would use this as validation to play the tips. It seems that way when I get stuck playing with them anyway. I thought the idea was to get guys to play the proper length tees to speed up the pace of play.

I think the idea is for you to select the tee's that have the best chance of making your round enjoyable. If it improves the pace of play, then that is even better.

 

[Hawk]

Yes, they should be banned from golf. That's exactly what the initiative says.

See, that's my point.

Why is it that everyone assumes that moving up will automatically equate to having more fun?
Are they suggesting that people who don't move up are essentially miserable and are not having any fun?
And what if someone says that even though they may not have the greatest game in the world, they really get a kick out of playing from longer tees? Are they lying?

I'm not saying that no one can have fun by moving up.
I'm just saying that there's probably a fair amount of people who won't see it that way, so what's to be done with them? Should they be banned from playing golf until they "come to their senses"?

I think TIF is a good idea but I just don't think it's for everyone.

 

[JWLI]

I think it's more than just speeding up the pace of play and I think it's less relevant the farther you hit the ball. I've played with many, many people that think they hit it farther than they do and play tees that make courses unneccessarily long for themselves. Those people are playing a version of golf that is completely different than many people, including professionals, play. It's fun to hit a PW or 9 iron into a green a few times a round, yet many people never get that chance unless it's their 3rd shot into a par 4.

I understand every single thing you just wrote. But my question is "What's wrong with that?"

If that's how someone likes to play and if they enjoy doing so, then who's to say they're wrong?

 

[couldbeu]

I don't know how it could possibly hurt... I think it makes the game a lot more fun for the weekend warrior and it speeds up play for everyone. I love the whole concept!

 

[JWLI]

Like usual, you missed the point.

No, I'm afraid that you've missed my point; which is that you can't assess a person's overall ability solely on average driving stats.

 

[Perkins Rooster]

Moving up one or two tees may or may not result in faster playing times because if someone sucks at the game, they'll suck no matter where they tee off from and if someone doesn't have a clue about ready golf or how to play efficiently then that too will show up no matter where they tee it up.

Yes they will suck no matter where they are but I'd suggest that there is less of a chance of them hitting their approach shot into the bush from 100 yards than 200 yards. Therefore, I believe that it's very likely that teeing it forward would increase the pace of play. I often play on a par 63 course and the difference in time between that and a par 72 is quite significant.

PR

 

[Hawk]

I understand every single thing you just wrote. But my question is "What's wrong with that?"

If that's how someone likes to play and if they enjoy doing so, then who's to say they're wrong?

Who said I said they're wrong? I don't care what other people do. There are people that play from tees that don't neccessarily realize they could have a little more fun and maybe hit shorter clubs if they moved up. Or they know it, and are afraid of being labled as weak.

 

[JWLI]

Yes they will suck no matter where they are but I'd suggest that there is less of a chance of them hitting their approach shot into the bush from 100 yards than 200 yards. Therefore, I believe that it's very likely that teeing it forward would increase the pace of play. I often play on a par 63 course and the difference in time between that and a par 72 is quite significant.

PR

Yes it could.

But in the 42 years I've been playing this game I've seen enough people play to say with confidence that pace of play is more about mindset than skill set.

 

[tnc200]

No, I'm afraid that you've missed my point; which is that you can't assess a person's overall ability solely on average driving stats.

This is why I think a hdcp is a better barometer for the proper tees. You can't tell me a guy who doesn't keep a hpcp or a scorecard even ought to be playing the tips. He'll be swinging out of his shoes, hacking out of the rough more often than not, and killing any pace of play the course may of had for that day. I originally thought the idea was to get more players back to the game. Many quit playing because of 5-6 hr rounds.

 

[huhhh]

I'd suggest that there is less of a chance of them hitting their approach shot into the bush from 100 yards than 200 yards. PR

Clearly...you've never seen my wedge game. For me the odds for the bush are about even from 100 or 200. And I can hit it consistanly 240 - 290 with a driver. Just not always the right direction.

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

No, I'm afraid that you've missed my point; which is that you can't assess a person's overall ability solely on average driving stats.

 

[Fairway2Green]

It seems no one mentioned that this initiative is also trying to bring new people into the game, which the game needs badly. Too many people seem to think that the state of the game is fine and push new players away from the game with their comments about people topping balls, thinning shots, etc. I don't understand the need to belittle people based on watching a few shots. I'm a single digit and I certainly still throw in a topped or thinned shot. Also, I've played quite a few courses here in FL where the pace of play listed in the cart is over four hours. If that's the POP the course posts can you really complain about slow play? Golf needs new players and anything that helps bring them in is great in my mind.


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[JWLI]

Who said I said they're wrong? I don't care what other people do. There are people that play from tees that don't neccessarily realize they could have a little more fun and maybe hit shorter clubs if they moved up. Or they know it, and are afraid of being labled as weak.

You may not be saying it but you're certainly implying it.
Maybe they fully realize that that moving up would allow for shorter clubs and maybe they don't care.
Maybe being labeled as "weak" has nothing to do with it. Maybe they just like playing from longer tees and that's all there is to it.

I had a friend once who was just a bit better than a novice skier yet when he went on a ski trip, he decided to try a Double Diamond trail and ended up going down the mountain on his keister.
He laughed his head off and thought it was the biggest rush he'd ever had. He certainly knew that he had no business on such a trail but you'd never know it judging by the smile on his face when he told that story.
I'm sure that there were many experienced skiers nearby who had a lot to say about his presence on an expert ski trail and I'm sure he couldn't have cared less about any of them.

That's what I've been saying - that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and as long as no one else in being inconvenienced, what difference does it make where someone tees up a golf ball?

 

[Tadashi70]

I just wanted to get some opinions on this. I normally play tees between 6000-6200 yards. I can usually shoot mid 80s from those but I decided to try moving forward a few times lately to tees that are between 5600-5900 yards. My score was a couple of strokes better and it was a lot of fun. Course management comes into play since I can now reach all the trouble. I like having a shot at birdies instead of trying to save par most of the day. The problem with this is, how does moving forward affect your game? Does it hurt it to play shorter distances? Or does it help build accuracy (since more trouble is in play)? Right now I'm alternating between tees which is fun, but I was just wondering what others thought about this. Help or hurt? Or neither?

Shots at birdies are always great, can never get enough of those.
I think moving up a set of tees will force you to use other clubs in your bag, think before you bomb a drivers and work on great accuracy off the tee and into the greens.
Playing shorter distances will improve your accuracy. Provided you have a fairly good golf swing and a good grasp on the game itself, shorter shots will only improve your game.
I alternate tees according to who my playing partner is. I love playing the forward tee, its great for the ego, short game and course management. When I step up to the white tees and then back to tips my game is not effected in any adverse way. I hit long clubs into some of the holes and my GIR are down but that's about it. Oh, I have much fewer putts from forward tees...

 

[Hawk]

I'm not implying anything. I'm trying to logically explain the purpose of the initiative while you troll yet another thread.

I don't care what other people do. I'm sure there a few golfers out there that love to hit driver/hybrid all day long and that's great. I'm also sure there are people playing from a tee that is far enough back that it makes playing golf not even close to similar to the game that people who can hit the ball with decent distance play. I have been one of them and I don't think it's that fun.

 

[Fairway2Green]

You may not be saying it but you're certainly implying it.
Maybe they fully realize that that moving up would allow for shorter clubs and maybe they don't care.
Maybe being labeled as "weak" has nothing to do with it. Maybe they just like playing from longer tees and that's all there is to it.

I had a friend once who was just a bit better than a novice skier yet when he went on a ski trip, he decided to try a Double Diamond trail and ended up going down the mountain on his keister.
He laughed his head off and thought it was the biggest rush he'd ever had. He certainly knew that he had no business on such a trail but you'd never know it judging by the smile on his face when he told that story.
I'm sure that there were many experienced skiers nearby who had a lot to say about his presence on an expert ski trail and I'm sure he couldn't have cared less about any of them.

That's what I've been saying - that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and as long as no one else in being inconvenienced, what difference does it make where someone tees up a golf ball?

I think this skiing example is a horrible reference. The guy could've easily ended up paralyzed or worse going down a trail that hard without the ability. Playing from back tees when you shouldn't be isn't going to cause any physical harm. I'm sure those other skiers weren't happy and told him he's not to be going down that trail. You're referencing adrenaline junkies, which I used to be, and I can't see anyway how playing the tips when you shouldn't be is an adrenaline rush. Obviously golf is a much different environment, but if you paddle out on a surfboard to a popular break and start eating it all over the place you're going to get assaulted and probably have your board broken in half. Skiing, surfing, or other sports of that type you're putting your life and others in jeopardy when you go out of your skill level. I don't see a 36 hdcp causing any physical harm to himself or others on the course by playing the tips. I'm still against them playing the wrong tees, but I just thought this analogy was way off.


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[Golf 'N Gator]

I'm not implying anything. I'm trying to logically explain the purpose of the initiative while you troll yet another thread.

I don't care what other people do. I'm sure there a few golfers out there that love to hit driver/hybrid all day long and that's great. I'm also sure there are people playing from a tee that is far enough back that it makes playing golf not even close to similar to the game that people who can hit the ball with decent distance play. I have been one of them and I don't think it's that fun.

 

[tnc200]

Maybe being labeled as "weak" has nothing to do with it. Maybe they just like playing from longer tees and that's all there is to it.

I had a friend once who was just a bit better than a novice skier yet when he went on a ski trip, he decided to try a Double Diamond trail and ended up going down the mountain on his keister.
He laughed his head off and thought it was the biggest rush he'd ever had. He certainly knew that he had no business on such a trail but you'd never know it judging by the smile on his face when he told that story.
I'm sure that there were many experienced skiers nearby who had a lot to say about his presence on an expert ski trail and I'm sure he couldn't have cared less about any of them.

That's what I've been saying - that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and as long as no one else in being inconvenienced, what difference does it make where someone tees up a golf ball?

While I agree in the freedom to choose, your analogy of your skiing buddy is soo flawed. Watching some 200lb idiot barrel down a mountain and plow into a kid or old lady because he is out of control ain't fun or funny at all. I'm a lifelong skier and have seen way too many senseless injuries and some fatalities to let that go unanswered. Imagine you go play tennis pairs and one player insists on hitting the ball out of the court and over the fence every time. Would that be fun to you?

 

[JWLI]

I'm not implying anything. I'm trying to logically explain the purpose of the initiative while you troll yet another thread.

I don't care what other people do. I'm sure there a few golfers out there that love to hit driver/hybrid all day long and that's great. I'm also sure there are people playing from a tee that is far enough back that it makes playing golf not even close to similar to the game that people who can hit the ball with decent distance play. I have been one of them and I don't think it's that fun.

Troll?

What am I saying that constitutes "trolling"? :confused2:

All I'm doing is offering another point of view and saying that there's more to what constitutes a player's overall skill level (and what tees they would likely do best from) than just basing that on driving distance and that one person's "fun-factor" may be different from another's.

How is that trolling?


I've said that the TIF program is a good idea, but I think it's just a start.
I think that it's a step in the right direction but that there's more to it than just "moving up".
Personally, what I'd like to see is the USGA or the PGA come up with a way to Slope and Rate individual holes and tees rather than an entire set of tees.
This way everyone would be able to choose specific tees for each hole they play and STILL be able to maintain a handicap. I think that would be the ultimate way to fully enjoy golf because it would mean that people could choose to play each hole based upon how how much challenge they'd like to have instead of just playing from a fixed set of tees for an entire course and having to deal with holes that they feel are either too long or too short.

I think that many egos would be satisfied that way because the people who want to experience "the tips" can do so from selected holes rather than for the entire round and even those whose games don't really match up to a long course could, from time to time, play a few long holes. Together everyone would be able to satisfy all of their needs without any stigma or judgment all while still maintaining a handicap.
"Tee It Forward" is a great step in the right direction but it's just a step and I think there's more to it than just tee choice and I hope it evolves into something more.

 

[JWLI]

I think this skiing example is a horrible reference. The guy could've easily ended up paralyzed or worse going down a trail that hard without the ability. Playing from back tees when you shouldn't be isn't going to cause any physical harm. I'm sure those other skiers weren't happy and told him he's not to be going down that trail. You're referencing adrenaline junkies, which I used to be, and I can't see anyway how playing the tips when you shouldn't be is an adrenaline rush. Obviously golf is a much different environment, but if you paddle out on a surfboard to a popular break and start eating it all over the place you're going to get assaulted and probably have your board broken in half. Skiing, surfing, or other sports of that type you're putting your life and others in jeopardy when you go out of your skill level. I don't see a 36 hdcp causing any physical harm to himself or others on the course by playing the tips. I'm still against them playing the wrong tees, but I just thought this analogy was way off.


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OK maybe that WAS a bit of a stretch but I was just trying to illustrate the "fun" aspect.

 

[Hawk]

You remind me of another gentleman we had here for a long time.

I like the idea of rating holes and allowing people to maintain a handicap, but it seems like a logistical nightmare and will most likely never happen. I don't bother with a handicap as 1) I don't use it for anything and 2) I think most course ratings around here don't really reflect the true difficulty of the course anyway. There are plenty of course that I move up on some holes and move back on others.

Like I said, it's not a perfect plan and the yardage 'chart' isn't all-encompassing. However, I think it could be a great way to encourage people to look at where they are playing from with an eye on enjoyment rather than what their playing partners think.

 

[Smallville]

Isn't there a Tiger book out there you've yet to read? The fact that researched that just to troll this thread is ridiculous.

I agree Hawk. I'm surprised he hasn't pointed out that the long driver competitors need to play 10,000 yard courses.

 

[Smallville]

I should add that as long as people keep up the pace of play and aren't holding up people behind them, they should play whatever tees they want. But as soon as you have people waiting on you, it should make you realize you are taking too long. Unfortunately, once you have people waiting, it's too late, the backup has started.

 

[Sean]

I performed a Tee it Forward experiment today. Our practice facility has a nine hole championship course and you can play the back tees on one nine and the mid tees on another nine and post a score as they are rated by the MGA. I played nine from the back tees and shot a 40, having to lay up on two par 4's. I played the other nine from the mid tees and shot a 35, with three birdies, and didn't have to lay up on those same par 4's. Granted, I had a good day, but the mid-tees were a lot more fun.

I don't see how it can be fun for people hitting hybrids and woods into greens greens as opposed to irons, as Hawk alluded to earlier.

 

[JWLI]

...I don't see how it can be fun for people hitting hybrids and woods into greens greens as opposed to irons, as Hawk alluded to earlier.

And if that works for you that's great!

But there may be just as many people out there who wait all week just to be able to hit those hybrids and fairway woods because that's THEIR idea of fun.

Not everyone has the same opinion of what makes something fun.
That's all I've been trying to say.