Every time I read the term "covid golfers" and how they've ruined the game, I can't help but think back on all the slow play threads there had been the previous 10 years.Sounds like people think new players are slow
Serious question that is guaranteed to go down some rough roads!
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 24,407
- Reaction score
- 25,953
- Handicap
- 17.2
Itās never going to change.
radeon962
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2013
- Messages
- 1,017
- Reaction score
- 482
- Handicap
- 6
Some of the worst pace of play offenders are better players who think they need to look at a putt from every direction, walk up to the green from 30 yards out to āsee their landing spotā, wait for the green to clear from 250 yards out, etc.
Plenty of courses near me where the new golfers are just out having fun, learning to love the game and are respectful of moving along.
You have to play to improve. We all started out as a hack at one time.
Plenty of courses near me where the new golfers are just out having fun, learning to love the game and are respectful of moving along.
You have to play to improve. We all started out as a hack at one time.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
- Messages
- 63,390
- Reaction score
- 16,643
- Location
- Appleton, WI
- Handicap
- ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I love the new COVID golfers. Adore them. More golfers means courses won't close. Means more.golfers buying equipment. Just means more for everybody in this sport.
Sure, 3 hour 18 hole Saturday rounds might be a thing of the past, but oh well.
When it is a packed tee sheet, everyone should be on there best behaviour, and try to keep moving along, as best they can. Be ready to play when it us your turn. Par 3's can be a bit of a back up when a group does not hit the green on their first shot. I get it looking for your ball, but new rules say it is less time now than before. Don't play $5 balls if you have a habit of losing them. It happens to all of us, losing a ball. Can't find it after a few minutes, drop and move on, especially on prime time slots like Saturday, or Sunday morning. It's all good you want to play a tour ball,(me too) but if you are a slicer, into the trees most of the round, looking for your ball, hole after hole, I would definitely play a cheaper ball. If you can't hit the ball at least 150 yards, you should not come out during the peak hours. Some guys bring their kids, and 50 yards at a time is not good. During the summer, I like to come out late, say 3ish or so, on a Sunday, and the course is not too busy. Usually finish 3:45-4 hours. Nice pace, and don't have to wait on the tee for the fairway to clear. I don't mind a longer round, as long as I don't have to wait too long at the tee, or on the fairway for a green to clear. Starts getting north of 5 hours, that can be a painful round, and no consistency to the pace. You get out of rythym with your game. Never a fun round...
There's a whole other discussion about courses that do the bare minimum, and don't actually put the forward tees where they should on the course so that someone driving the ball that distance is playing a similar hole.
I play a lot with my wife - and we're lucky that our course has a large group of women that play and are involved in the club, so the course is set up well. And she's not particularly great (30s cap), but has no issues finishing her round within pace, even as part of a foursome of so-so at best golfers. Ready golf is the name of the game.
I'm still a hack...
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2015
- Messages
- 7,686
- Reaction score
- 4,311
So that could have been a marshal that doesnāt know what he is doing or it could be a lack of clear communication.
For example, if the group in front of you is slow (letās say there is already a one hole gap after the 2nd hole). The marshal may have told that group to pick up the pace. But the marshal should have made it clear that he asked that group to pick up their pace and simply wanted you to be prepared to maintain contact.
I played with some 15-20+ cappers that were some of the fastest players I've ever played with. I've also played with some scratch players that were slower than a Volkswagen on a highway.
I haven't noticed a difference. Slow golf has been exactly this bad for the 11-12 years I've been playing. The only 3 hour 18 holes rounds I experienced were/are when I got out in front of those who have been playing for decades.
- Staff
- #187
It hasn't changed that much, but, as a society now we are all in on finding a scapegoat rather than admitting any fault. Golf has ALWAYS been bad about that when it comes to newcomers.
I was listening to PGAT radio this morning, and one of the guys said he was watching Cantlay yesterday and on one tee shot he took 40 seconds to make the swing. I average around six seconds, lol.
Biggest issue is usually the rangers arenāt doing their jobs or tracking times.
Lou W
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,093
- Reaction score
- 1,295
- Location
- Poway, CA / Walker, MN
- Handicap
- 13.3
Starter needs to warn slow players/groups and eject them if they donāt pick up the pace. Id be cautious of dissing any new/higher cap players with restricted tee times.
So you think itās more an influx of new golfers? Or how about an influx of new golfers with unrealistic expectations? Or golfers in general with unrealistic expectations? Self centered/entitlement plus not taking any responsibility for oneās self?
Iām thinking āD: all of the aboveā
How about publicizing some of the rules of golf?
1) like the Maximum Score Rule. I know the rule says it's Par + 5 strokes if you don't have a handicap. But if you have a HC it's your net DB. You can pick up and move on without having the round DQ'd. It can also be set by the committee. I say make it "pick up when you hit net DB or triple bogey, whichever is less." If you're playing a $1/hole you lost the hole anyway.
2) You have three minutes to find your ball. If you can't find it, walk onto the fairway, drop a ball approximately 8' in no nearer the hole, add two strokes to your score, and hit. MLR E-5. Don't drop the ball in the woods where you think you lost the ball for a 1 stroke penalty and have it ricochet off trees and lose the ball again - this is what some people do. Or if the ball goes out of bounds, don't drop three feet in from the OB marker in grass up to your knees. You get to drop on the fairway in a good lie with a 2 stroke penalty.
3) If you swing at your tee shot with intent to hit and barely graze it, and the ball stays in the teeing area, the stroke counts but you get to place the ball back on the tee w/ no penalty. If it is elsewhere in the teebox, you have to play it as it lies. This is an advantage to playing it the full two yds behind the markers just in case you screw up. If there was no intent to hit the ball.... there was no stroke.
Then we get to other things:
1) Allow sufficient time between tee times and no fivesomes.
2) Cart sharing - Financially I'm a fan to split the cost of a cart. Speedwise, I'm not a fan.
4) Golf course architects - please... please don't put a long par 3 as the 2nd hole.
5) And remember, you can only play as fast as the group in front and the group in front of them. If the course is moving slow, don't rush. It creates backups and short tempers. Enjoy an extra beer. Or two.
6) For the love of God, don't spend 15 minutes on the green discussing a potential rule violation because someone in your foursome might have hit from the wrong place and then make them walk back 180 yds and rehit their shot. I know you might have $1000 riding on the game, but you're backing up the entire course and I've got to go potty and it's a lot more complicated for me to go than you men.
1) like the Maximum Score Rule. I know the rule says it's Par + 5 strokes if you don't have a handicap. But if you have a HC it's your net DB. You can pick up and move on without having the round DQ'd. It can also be set by the committee. I say make it "pick up when you hit net DB or triple bogey, whichever is less." If you're playing a $1/hole you lost the hole anyway.
2) You have three minutes to find your ball. If you can't find it, walk onto the fairway, drop a ball approximately 8' in no nearer the hole, add two strokes to your score, and hit. MLR E-5. Don't drop the ball in the woods where you think you lost the ball for a 1 stroke penalty and have it ricochet off trees and lose the ball again - this is what some people do. Or if the ball goes out of bounds, don't drop three feet in from the OB marker in grass up to your knees. You get to drop on the fairway in a good lie with a 2 stroke penalty.
3) If you swing at your tee shot with intent to hit and barely graze it, and the ball stays in the teeing area, the stroke counts but you get to place the ball back on the tee w/ no penalty. If it is elsewhere in the teebox, you have to play it as it lies. This is an advantage to playing it the full two yds behind the markers just in case you screw up. If there was no intent to hit the ball.... there was no stroke.
Then we get to other things:
1) Allow sufficient time between tee times and no fivesomes.
2) Cart sharing - Financially I'm a fan to split the cost of a cart. Speedwise, I'm not a fan.
4) Golf course architects - please... please don't put a long par 3 as the 2nd hole.
5) And remember, you can only play as fast as the group in front and the group in front of them. If the course is moving slow, don't rush. It creates backups and short tempers. Enjoy an extra beer. Or two.
6) For the love of God, don't spend 15 minutes on the green discussing a potential rule violation because someone in your foursome might have hit from the wrong place and then make them walk back 180 yds and rehit their shot. I know you might have $1000 riding on the game, but you're backing up the entire course and I've got to go potty and it's a lot more complicated for me to go than you men.
Received this email this morning from one of the local municipals:
We are implementing a new rangering procedure that will make communication between our golfers and our rangers seamless. We have created a flagging system that will allow our ranger to communicate with golfers without having to disrupt play. The flag system works as follows:
Green Flag: You are on Pace! Thank you!
Yellow Flag: You have fallen behind the group in front of you, please pick up pace of play.
Red Flag: Pick up your ball and move to the next hole, cart number will be noted. If your group gets a second red flag, the course manager will be out to address the situation and you will be asked to make changes to your play. Changes could include letting a group or more play through, skipping a hole(s) to increase pace, or an end to your round.
We hope our patrons respect the decisions our team members set forth for the benefit of ALL golfers!
We are implementing a new rangering procedure that will make communication between our golfers and our rangers seamless. We have created a flagging system that will allow our ranger to communicate with golfers without having to disrupt play. The flag system works as follows:
Green Flag: You are on Pace! Thank you!
Yellow Flag: You have fallen behind the group in front of you, please pick up pace of play.
Red Flag: Pick up your ball and move to the next hole, cart number will be noted. If your group gets a second red flag, the course manager will be out to address the situation and you will be asked to make changes to your play. Changes could include letting a group or more play through, skipping a hole(s) to increase pace, or an end to your round.
We hope our patrons respect the decisions our team members set forth for the benefit of ALL golfers!
Not a bad idea, just hope the course manager looks like a middle linebacker, or he will have a problem asking people to leave. Or going to have to have a security force, packing, to make it work, especially when alcohol is involved.
Disagree strongly with this post. I find low and mid cap players as bad or worse with pace of play as new players as they are much more concerned with their scores. The most egregious violations usually come from better players who take forever obsessing over their shots.
Iām a 20 hcp right now and despise slow play and always play fast. Among the large group of friends i play with, the highest cap players are by far the fastest bc they are just out for fun and walk up and hit their ball.
The only way to speed up play is for courses to enforce it. One warning if youāre off pace and if you donāt pick it up they make you skip a hole or leave.
I played a course a few weeks ago with excellent Marshalls who did just that, found the group holding up play and followed them until they were back on pace.
Played another 3 weeks ago that was a disaster. Made the turn in 3 hours. The two groups ahead of us (who were good players) were the worst violators i have seen. I think they were playing for money and were multiple holes behind. We waited at the turn for 25 minutes, there were 4 groups backed up on the tee when we finally got to tee off and with 15 people complaining in the pro shop they refused to do anything but give a light warning.
I ended up walking off the course as i had to get home to feed my dog but Iāll never play that course again. Sorry for the rant but still annoyed about it.
Iām a 20 hcp right now and despise slow play and always play fast. Among the large group of friends i play with, the highest cap players are by far the fastest bc they are just out for fun and walk up and hit their ball.
The only way to speed up play is for courses to enforce it. One warning if youāre off pace and if you donāt pick it up they make you skip a hole or leave.
I played a course a few weeks ago with excellent Marshalls who did just that, found the group holding up play and followed them until they were back on pace.
Played another 3 weeks ago that was a disaster. Made the turn in 3 hours. The two groups ahead of us (who were good players) were the worst violators i have seen. I think they were playing for money and were multiple holes behind. We waited at the turn for 25 minutes, there were 4 groups backed up on the tee when we finally got to tee off and with 15 people complaining in the pro shop they refused to do anything but give a light warning.
I ended up walking off the course as i had to get home to feed my dog but Iāll never play that course again. Sorry for the rant but still annoyed about it.
Love this! I would pay a sizeable fee each round to help fund this
I don't think there is 1 easy fix for slow play since there can be multiple factors. Tee time spacing is a major cause but probably fits under other.
I know I play better when I am not waiting on every shot and I have seen some great golfers who were super slow because of their "Process".
Having Rangers that actually do something other than ride around and chat with their friends would be nice.
I know I play better when I am not waiting on every shot and I have seen some great golfers who were super slow because of their "Process".
Having Rangers that actually do something other than ride around and chat with their friends would be nice.
I'd be surprised if any group received two red flags, but first, you can't bring your own alcohol on the course, and secondly, very bad idea to put a beat down on the course manager. He has an excellent rep in the community for all the First Tee work that he does, among other things. If anyone put the hurt on him, they would be in for a world of hurt themselves.
Yes, and the best thing about it is the marshal doesn't have to confront anyone...the flag says it all.
I get it, but it COULD happen. Most folks are pretty good about moving on, once a ranger gives a warning. I was talking about alcohol purchased at the course. My BIL was good for a six pack on the front, by another at the turn, and by 14, would complain his game is going south. I told him have another beer...