Short Hitter - How Good Can I Expect to Get?
bumpnrun
New member
I was struck when looking at PGA Tour statas that World #1 Martin Kaymer was middle of the pack, at best, in every stat but putting, where he was #1. Shows what counts.
Asden105
New member
Basically I hit my driver 250, hit 7 iron about 155, and i can play from the back tees and shoot 80. Short game mate. Not just how good your short game is, but where you leave yourself for those shots. Its like putting. Its not how well you putt, its where you putt from. Its not how well you chip, but where you chip from.
Keep strategy in mind when improving your short game, and don't feel like you shouldn't play the back tees. Play them sometime, and you may surprise yourself how well you play if you're in good position.
Keep strategy in mind when improving your short game, and don't feel like you shouldn't play the back tees. Play them sometime, and you may surprise yourself how well you play if you're in good position.
holy old thread batman!
I think there is a limit as to how low you can go based on distance. I have been really working to get my swing in order so I can get everything possible out of my limited swing speed and it is helping take the pressure off of my short game. You still have to score even with length, but if you are hitting a wood off the tee when other guys are hitting an iron or unable to reach par 4s in 2 it is definitely going to impact your handicap. Even if you get up and down 2/3s of the time, that 1/3 that you don't is going to limit your potential score.
I think there is a limit as to how low you can go based on distance. I have been really working to get my swing in order so I can get everything possible out of my limited swing speed and it is helping take the pressure off of my short game. You still have to score even with length, but if you are hitting a wood off the tee when other guys are hitting an iron or unable to reach par 4s in 2 it is definitely going to impact your handicap. Even if you get up and down 2/3s of the time, that 1/3 that you don't is going to limit your potential score.
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mesaman777
Member
It's really all about playing the appropriate tees right? I fall into the shortish hitting category. 240 is a good drive for me and 6 iron is my 150 club. I play from 6400-6500 yards and I maintain a single digit HCP. I need to hit fairway woods into some par 4's, but I don't stress over it, I just try to hit the best shot I can. I do work on my short game and it bales me out a lot, but I do make my share of birdies too. When it gets to the point where I am struggling to reach medium par 4's in reg, I will move up a set of tees.
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good thread bump imo.
been mentioned in this thread that 240/50..ish is not long and in fact implied by some as they are fairly short while hitting that. While its not long its certainly not short imo and probably longer than very many if not most amateurs. One can play 7000 hitting 240/50. You would have to be consistent off the tee but if you are its not something at all undoable nor too hard. Better off at something mid 6's max for that and is better but the point being that 245 ave is not what I would consider short at all.
But when it comes to being shorter and say 220 max and certainly 200 or less well then what can you do? you will need to move even further up and now think about 6000 max or less as a preferred tee. But either way and since sub 80 rounds are mentioned in this thread, even after playing closer one must be consistent virtually everywhere. Sub 80 rounds cant exist on any consistent basis with too many blow-up holes. There is just little to no room for them and still manage to shoot sub 80. Get on or near the greens in regulation and then when missed play a really good consistent short game and don't mis many putts. Imo sub 80 rounds cannot withstand many misses. Heck on a par 72 its only 7 strokes max that can be absorbed and that's assuming there are no doubles to be made up for. That's not a lot of misses at all. You have to be pretty darn good and be darn good often. You don't have to be long and is why there are different tees. What can you do if you lack distance (other than trying to gain some) but to play a more suited set of tees. It is what it is. After that you simply need to be a very good player who makes only few bad shots and misses. Just no room for many.
been mentioned in this thread that 240/50..ish is not long and in fact implied by some as they are fairly short while hitting that. While its not long its certainly not short imo and probably longer than very many if not most amateurs. One can play 7000 hitting 240/50. You would have to be consistent off the tee but if you are its not something at all undoable nor too hard. Better off at something mid 6's max for that and is better but the point being that 245 ave is not what I would consider short at all.
But when it comes to being shorter and say 220 max and certainly 200 or less well then what can you do? you will need to move even further up and now think about 6000 max or less as a preferred tee. But either way and since sub 80 rounds are mentioned in this thread, even after playing closer one must be consistent virtually everywhere. Sub 80 rounds cant exist on any consistent basis with too many blow-up holes. There is just little to no room for them and still manage to shoot sub 80. Get on or near the greens in regulation and then when missed play a really good consistent short game and don't mis many putts. Imo sub 80 rounds cannot withstand many misses. Heck on a par 72 its only 7 strokes max that can be absorbed and that's assuming there are no doubles to be made up for. That's not a lot of misses at all. You have to be pretty darn good and be darn good often. You don't have to be long and is why there are different tees. What can you do if you lack distance (other than trying to gain some) but to play a more suited set of tees. It is what it is. After that you simply need to be a very good player who makes only few bad shots and misses. Just no room for many.
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
Play the correct tees and you can go as low as scratch.
I would agree. Short/long is all about perspective 240-245 is not short in my opinion. I have shot low 80s at my home course (from about 6100 yards) while averaging under 200 off the tee. Moving back to 6500 yards makes it hard for me to keep it below 88 with those type of driving days. I shot 84 from 6500 yards in a tournament and it was one of the best wedge/putting rounds I may have ever had.
With my swing speed I should be able to get my avg up to 220 if not more and should help me quite a bit from the 6500 tees, but if I went back to the black tees (6900) it would be a real struggle, particularly on the par 3s.
Smallville
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Don't you mean as low as even par? I don't think I could get to scratch from any possible tees ever. I might shoot par, but I sure won't be scratch.
MrDC
Well-known member
I think the Macarena was still a hit when this discussion first started.
Mark_UK
Legal Alien
Nice thread revival. I play with a female low single figure handicapper who uses woods until she's about 130 in. I have played with a senior who struggles to hit his driver over 200, but has a freakin killer short game and regularly hits a couple over. Length is a huge advantage, but I believe you can get into low single figures without being a bomber.
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Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
Getting to that level is dependent on the persons skill, commitment and all that stuff but if they are playing the correct tees sure someone could. Now if you spray it all over or have a weakness in your game no scratch isn't obtainable but isn't a reflection of how far you hit the ball.
My buddy that I play the most golf with is a 9 - 11 index and his carry distance with a driver is only about 190. His 5 iron is maybe 145 on a good day so he normally is playing a hybrid or fw into most par 4's. His short game is super solid and his 3-putt avoidance is better than most scratch golfers, me included. He has no problems playing out to about 6600 yards. I've been incouraging him to lose weight and improve his flexibility and he is in the process of doing that and has already picked up about 10 yards.
Don't discount how a proper golf fitness/flexibility routine can maintain or improve how far you hit it. There are certainly a bunch of golfers at my club in their mid to late 60's who still can hit it over 250 yards consistently.
Don't discount how a proper golf fitness/flexibility routine can maintain or improve how far you hit it. There are certainly a bunch of golfers at my club in their mid to late 60's who still can hit it over 250 yards consistently.
Gulby
#SemiPro
I play with an almost scratch golfer who doesn't hit his driver further than 200 yards. Straight down the middle every time though. Sometimes I look back on him from 80 yards ahead and give a little chuckle, I usually end up losing the hole though lol
ntanygd760
Well-known member
As long as there isn't any forced carries that you can't make you can get away with being short and still do well.
This is going to be an ugly year. Given that I've lost nearly 20 mph since last summer, I'm moving up to the reds.
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What he said with one addition. We also need to talk about your potential for hitting the ball farther. I'm 60 and hitting it farther than ever. Combination of getting in shape to up my swing speed. Focusing on technique and quality of the impact (smash factor). Making sure I have the right equipment setup to get the maximum out of my swing.
Asden105
New member
I notice you're in plus figures for your handicap. Damn I wish I could be that good. I'm a 9.8. If I could just take off those 9 to 10 shots that I waste around the greens I'd be plus figure.
Still, Hitting a ball farther helps when you play from the back tees. Me, hitting it 250-260 on average, It can be difficult to reach greens in reg, especially when i miss a fairway. (I don't hit many fairways, and they go this far. If I were to hit fairways it would go about 20 yards further, because normally I slice the ball about 15 yards, so I aim left, and allow for it to come back. It just comes back too far.)
For me, personally, if I didn't slice the ball, I'd hit it 280. I have around 107 mph clubhead speed, so I should be hitting further than 250.
I also hit high on the face, but centered. If I could get this strike centered I'd hit it a mile (280-290 for me is a mile, being 5'6" and 180 ib.)
I just think distance, in all its glory, should be accurate. Jack Nicklaus said there are two ways of hitting the ball further, either you hit the ball harder, or you become more accurate. Distance is only an asset if it's in the fairway and not in the trees. If I could straighten out my ball, I'd hit it 20-30 yards more, just because it's in the fairway, and rolling a bit instead of being in the trees or in the thick grass. Mind you, I carry it 250, so for the most part a bit of roll would help.
Distance equals potential as Hank Haney likes to say. It is very, very rare to find a scratch golfer that doesn't hit it 250+ with the driver and all the ones at my club can hit it at least 265 yards. I do believe most male golfers can learn to hit it 250 yards through instruction and fitness if they are willing to put in the work.
moosejaa
Mr. Inconsistent
Correct me if I'm wrong, but playing from the proper tees for your game depends on how far you hit the ball as much as your age or gender even. I think if you are averaging 200 off the tee the easiest answer is to move up and, depending on the rest of your game, could play to scratch.
ntanygd760
Well-known member
It bleeds over into everything though. If you only hit the ball 200 with a driver you will have serious issues holding greens with a hybrid when others are using a 9 iron. So it also depends on the course. You need one with greens open in the front that offers more options than just the aerial game.
I agree with moving up to the appropriate tees but it often gets harder and harder to play to a scratch handicap as you move up though. The course ratings and slope can get so much lower that you might end up having to shoot well under par to get anywhere near scratch.
For instance, Buffalo Ridge is my favorite local course. If I played it exclusively I'd have to shoot significantly different scores to maintain a scratch handicap depending on the tees I selected. Par is 71 from all tees.
Black 7000+ yards: I could average 74.4 (+3.4) and be scratch (10 best of last 20)
Gold 6600+ yards - I could average 71.5 (+0.5) and be scratch (THP gathering tees)
Bronze 6200+ yards - I could average 69.4 (-1.6) and be scratch (my prefered tees)
Silver 5900 yards - I'd need to average 67.6 (-3.4) to be scratch (sometimes tees)
Red 5000 yards - I'd need to average 63.9 (-7.1) to be scratch
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ntanygd760
Well-known member
You are only supposed to beat your handicap 25% of the time. But your point stands you better be shooting well under par from the forward tees at most courses to be scratch. It pretty much turns into a putting contest.