The marketing of avx basically targets one type (better player) but seems to me it could cover two types of players

[rollin]

From what I gather the ball is basically marketed to target better (lets say single cap) players who want less spin. And while that is certainly very understandable, it also seems very much like the ball should/could also target mid and fwiw even higher players too. Its a bit interesting to me and here is what I mean.

And so the lessor spinning premium avx ball which seems to hold true enough throughout the bag (via reviews/tests) vs its premium cousins imo would/could also benefit the mid and or higher caps as for holding a straighter flight line. That is something which can easily also target such (non low cap) players who need the help keeping thier flights dispersions tamed. And not at all only the "better" player who may desire/need less spin for a different reason.
less spin through the bag also means straighter flight through the bag.

The obvious counter debate to this would be to suggest perhaps.......why not (for that lessor player) then just play a ball like the cheaper tour speed or some other brand/model and or bit cheaper ball that spins less? But then that very same question could be also applied to that better player who desires less spin. So the whole thing is just kind of curious and even a tad strange to me.

I recently been playing it (I should say mixing in for a number of rounds now) with tour speed, CS, pv, and even Brx. As a mid-mid/high cap I really like the avx a lot. For me it feels great to hit (all clubs) , does a real good job flying straight/er relatively speaking (for my lesss than good or not sooo bad mishits with all clubs) and has been reasonably longest of the bunch especially when hit real well. The tour speed (for 10 bucks less) has done well too in the same areas though I like the feel of the avx better. For hitting greens Ive yet to definitively determine if avx holds better for me than t-speed. Not to make this about me and my golf but it seems the avx can/may also fit not at all only the "better" player but also has characteristics that can suit many lessor players too. Strange its marketed to target the one group but I suppose thats in part due to premium price. This all began with me trying the t-speed (bit cheaper ball vs premiums) but then happened to pick a box of avx for the heck of it. Unfortunately I like it $$$. And yes even though its not marketed to my group.

 

[Desmond]

When I was at the Titleist Experience 3 years, the AVX was new and for players with high spin and typically high speed who needed to cut their spin for various reasons, but while urethane, it also cut down on greenside spin.

 

[OldandStiff]

What in the marketing makes it seem like it's intended for a 'better player'? I've never really got that impression, but I don't watch a lot of commercials and eventually internet ads kind of just become noise, so I could have missed it I suppose. Has just always seemed like a premium ball, that's softer, and lower spinning. I don't agree with the less spin equals straighter flight and tighter dispersion assumption, and for a fast swinger it's probably not the best ball unless you want to knock driver launch and spin down and that's worth more to the player than other things. There are low spin balls that will have a little more ball speed for a fast swing, but most fly higher there.

So to me they fit a bunch of players really well, and I think they're a great ball, but in the vast pool of people I see benefitting or who could from it, there's no real handicap consistency, just needs. Which I think is what you're getting at. It can benefit a lot of different people. Some lesser priced/premium balls having similar outcomes for those players is an interesting topic. They're not really my ball range these days, but there does seem to be a big selection of balls in similar compression/feel/flight/spin range with lots of little details separating them and fair difference in price.

 

[rollin]

What in the marketing makes it seem like it's intended for a 'better player'? I've never really got that impression, but I don't watch a lot of commercials and eventually internet ads kind of just become noise, so I could have missed it I suppose. Has just always seemed like a premium ball, that's softer, and lower spinning. I don't agree with the less spin equals straighter flight and tighter dispersion assumption, and for a fast swinger it's probably not the best ball unless you want to knock driver launch and spin down and that's worth more to the player than other things. There are low spin balls that will have a little more ball speed for a fast swing, but most fly higher there.

So to me they fit a bunch of players really well, and I think they're a great ball, but in the vast pool of people I see benefitting or who could from it, there's no real handicap consistency, just needs. Which I think is what you're getting at. It can benefit a lot of different people. Some lesser priced/premium balls having similar outcomes for those players is an interesting topic. They're not really my ball range these days, but there does seem to be a big selection of balls in similar compression/feel/flight/spin range with lots of little details separating them and fair difference in price.

honestly Im now not sure exactly where or how the heck I been under the impression it was intended for better players. I suppose it collectively came from a number of on line reviews and commentary. But also it could be because they claim its for the "high spin player' and that is barely ever a mid to high capper. most us are not capable of producing too much spin especially with irons.

as for less spin meaning tighter dispersion? imo it has to mean tighter. Spin is what causes a ball to move left/right or hook/slice. The less spin also means less movement. That is a general ideology behind balls that are designed to fly straighter. if someone hits two 6irons on same axis and one ball spins 1000 rpm less than the other . the lower spinner is going to move (or curve) less. That basically the whole thing through years with better players complaining that cheaper distance balls were more difficult to shape. Its because they spun less and are therefore less workable. So less spin generally means less dispersion. Thats just the physics of it.

 

[JB]

But also it could be because they claim its for the "high spin player' and that is barely ever a mid to high capper. most us are not capable of producing too much spin especially with irons.

this might be worth looking into. Most amateurs produce a ton of spin because they are steep or over the top in delivery creating unwanted spin on longer clubs. AVX was an answer to Chrome Soft and Bridgestone RX who both offered a lower compression golf ball.

 

[AnthonyC]

There are a few ways to produce a lot of spin; I'm very steep. I play the AVX to combat the spin that I produce with my specific swing. I'm a bogey golfer.

 

[rollin]

this might be worth looking into. Most amateurs produce a ton of spin because they are steep or over the top in delivery creating unwanted spin on longer clubs. AVX was an answer to Chrome Soft and Bridgestone RX who both offered a lower compression golf ball.

I was thinking more the mid and short irons when I said that. I also originally thought it was T's answer to chrome soft and etc,,, but then we read reviews and opinions and I guess alot of my thoughts regarding this topic have been somewhat skewed due to some of what Ive watched or read. Either that or I simply took things the wrong way when the term high spin player is mentioned. I took that to mean a low cap player which I couldnt quite understand. But when i think of it as a 'player needing the tamer tee and long ball the whole thing makes better common sense now. Sometimes I put too much thought into things skewing my own view and I suppose its what i did here.

In the end, and whats most important I like the behavior of the ball (for my swing). But it does leave question (as does most top tier balls) if one wants to pay the premium.

 

[rollin]

this might be worth looking into. Most amateurs produce a ton of spin because they are steep or over the top in delivery creating unwanted spin on longer clubs. AVX was an answer to Chrome Soft and Bridgestone RX who both offered a lower compression golf ball.

JB I had to requote your post here but for a different reason than I did in my other post. And yes we get intio a tad different discussion concerning the avx.
It seems the tourspeed may indeed be a truely very similar ball to avx except for the "Thermoplastic urethane" vs the avx urethane and probable why the pricepoint difference.
But the reason I now bring this up is that tour speed is also via some titleist commentary discussion articles compared to CS and BRx etx when discussing tour speed.
What i cant seem to find anywhere is any comparos between tour speed and avx. Just how far apart might these two balls actually sit in terms of shorter club spins and of course longer game spin and flight and distance numbers as well. All indications I been able to find (while separate commentary for each ball) seems unofficially to be fitting them in the similar category. Both softer (almost even from what I was able to find compression wise) , both less spinny of course vs the V and V1.
Just interesting if the avx is all that much better on shorter and greenside control vs the Tspeed, and which is longer (as well as starigher or more penetrating) in the long and tee games?
These two balls may not be far apart at all. I just cant find much that compares the two to each other. You can find each one being compared to the PV's but only one review I found which does all the T balls with a wedge. And within that multi titleist ball comparo it found (for that tester) the spin rate of avx almost exactly the very same as the speed.

 

[JB]

JB I had to requote your post here but for a different reason than I did in my other post. And yes we get intio a tad different discussion concerning the avx.
It seems the tourspeed may indeed be a truely very similar ball to avx except for the "Thermoplastic urethane" vs the avx urethane and probable why the pricepoint difference.
But the reason I now bring this up is that tour speed is also via some titleist commentary discussion articles compared to CS and BRx etx when discussing tour speed.
What i cant seem to find anywhere is any comparos between tour speed and avx. Just how far apart might these two balls actually sit in terms of shorter club spins and of course longer game spin and flight and distance numbers as well. All indications I been able to find (while separate commentary for each ball) seems unofficially to be fitting them in the similar category. Both softer (almost even from what I was able to find compression wise) , both less spinny of course vs the V and V1.
Just interesting if the avx is all that much better on shorter and greenside control vs the Tspeed, and which is longer (as well as starigher or more penetrating) in the long and tee games?
These two balls may not be far apart at all. I just cant find much that compares the two to each other. You can find each one being compared to the PV's but only one review I found which does all the T balls with a wedge. And within that multi titleist ball comparo it found (for that tester) the spin rate of avx almost exactly the very same as the speed.

We have threads on both balls with tons of reviews but they are quite different.
As to Titleist's comparison...It makes perfect sense to compare their less expensive golf ball to that of the top tier from other companies.

 

[blugold]

You guys are seeing AVX marketing?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I personally doubt there are many amateur golfers who actually produce too much spin.

 

[JB]

I personally doubt there are many amateur golfers who actually produce too much spin.

Off the tee?
There are so many steep swingers.

 

[rollin]

I personally doubt there are many amateur golfers who actually produce too much spin.

Thats the part which sort of through off my thinking in the first place. i took the term too much spin to mean better player because none of us amateurs are pulling strings on the greens like a yo-yo. I now think (much more understandably so) that term was used much more for referencing things like those of us who may balloon and much more for those who have trouble flying straighter but instead tend to struggle with too much hook/slice dispersion. Less spin would/could mean less turning left/right and more penetrating so that same less spin could be something many folks would benefit from.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd suggest if it's that bad off the tee a ball change isn't going to make a huge difference.

I was thinking more approach play though regarding spin. Regarding ball flight, how many amateurs hit it too high? Surely the vast majority of mid-high handicappers don't hit it near high enough. And again, if they do somehow hit it too high, there's clearly a much more pressing issue where a ball change isn't going to make a massive difference.

 

[JB]

I'd suggest if it's that bad off the tee a ball change isn't going to make a huge difference.

I was thinking more approach play though regarding spin. Regarding ball flight, how many amateurs hit it too high? Surely the vast majority of mid-high handicappers don't hit it near high enough. And again, if they do somehow hit it too high, there's clearly a much more pressing issue where a ball change isn't going to make a massive difference.

A ball change can amount to well over a thousand RPMs of difference on full swings. Here is just one of the THP TV spots showing how much compression can change spin on full swings.

 

[rollin]

You guys are seeing AVX marketing?

No, its just some things I noted or wanted to question about the ball as i had been searching for and reading/viewing what i could find.
So no none of this was meant to suggest we are seeing any kind of large marketing campaign for the ball.

 

[-CRW-]

I don’t see much marketing for AVX either. From what little I have seen, my perception was that it was for slower swing speeds who need less spin. Titleist always pushes their top tier balls for everyone, not “better” players.

And a 75 mph driver swing speed at -5 AOA optimized for carry is spinning the ball ~3700 rpms. That’s optimized. So a bad face to path could easily produce 4500+ rpms. I think the issue with some wrapping their head around this is the general lack of launch monitor availability and use. It’s the same reason that most players have no idea how high they actually hit a golf ball.

https://trackman.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/115010271208/TrackMan_Driver_Optimization_2010.pdf?mobile_site=true

 

[Sox_Fan]

What in the marketing makes it seem like it's intended for a 'better player'? I've never really got that impression, but I don't watch a lot of commercials and eventually internet ads kind of just become noise, so I could have missed it I suppose. Has just always seemed like a premium ball, that's softer, and lower spinning. I don't agree with the less spin equals straighter flight and tighter dispersion assumption, and for a fast swinger it's probably not the best ball unless you want to knock driver launch and spin down and that's worth more to the player than other things. There are low spin balls that will have a little more ball speed for a fast swing, but most fly higher there.

So to me they fit a bunch of players really well, and I think they're a great ball, but in the vast pool of people I see benefitting or who could from it, there's no real handicap consistency, just needs. Which I think is what you're getting at. It can benefit a lot of different people. Some lesser priced/premium balls having similar outcomes for those players is an interesting topic. They're not really my ball range these days, but there does seem to be a big selection of balls in similar compression/feel/flight/spin range with lots of little details separating them and fair difference in price.

I have seen it commented on here numerous times that this ball fits a very small niche group of golfers. Never really understood that, given my experience with the ball, and never receieved a reply as to why that statement was made after I questioned it. To me, it seems to be a better fit than Prov1 or Prov1x for most mid to high handicappers that are dead set on playing a "tour level" urethane ball. If I can't find a Bridgestone Tour B RX (which would not happen given my extremely large hoard ), AVX would easily be my 2nd choice.

 

[rollin]

I'd suggest if it's that bad off the tee a ball change isn't going to make a huge difference.

I was thinking more approach play though regarding spin. Regarding ball flight, how many amateurs hit it too high? Surely the vast majority of mid-high handicappers don't hit it near high enough. And again, if they do somehow hit it too high, there's clearly a much more pressing issue where a ball change isn't going to make a massive difference.

Not if things off the tee are very bad, no ball is fixing that..........But I do know all too well from personal experience that the spraying (within reason) of balls off the tee can indeed be helped with a ball that spins less. It does make a difference that is very noticeable. Balls that fly straighter due to less spin do disperse several yards less than others. Can mean the difference between being in or just out of play on those border line shots. And can also (in just that exact same manor) be the difference between edge of fairway vs rough on the decent but not real good shots. I feel that same help may hold true also for one who hits too high. Its not the norm but there are many amateurs who do suffer from moon shots. i do see them around enough.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Not if things off the tee are very bad, no ball is fixing that..........But I do know all too well from personal experience that the spraying (within reason) of balls off the tee can indeed be helped with a ball that spins less. It does make a difference that is very noticeable. Balls that fly straighter due to less spin do disperse several yards less than others. Can mean the difference between being in or just out of play on those border line shots. And can also (in just that exact same manor) be the difference between edge of fairway vs rough on the decent but not real good shots. I feel that same help may hold true also for one who hits too high. Its not the norm but there are many amateurs who do suffer from moon shots. i do see them around enough.

How does this work when it's driver spin being too low that causes accuracy issues?

 

[Scorp]

You guys are seeing AVX marketing?

I'm seeing it... it's few and far between but it's out there.:confused2: Sometimes on tv... others on the internet

 

[Desmond]

From our 2018 Titleist Experience, the only players that Titleist fitted into the AVX were high spin, high speed golfers. I think there were 2 of those players Most were fitted into ProV1x and then ProV1. FWIW. I remember concluding from the presentation that the AVX was meant for a limited range of golfers. Has the ball changed in its evolution? Don't know.

 

[rollin]

Not if things off the tee are very bad, no ball is fixing that..........But I do know all too well from personal experience that the spraying (within reason) of balls off the tee can indeed be helped with a ball that spins less. It does make a difference that is very noticeable. Balls that fly straighter due to less spin do disperse several yards less than others. Can mean the difference between being in or just out of play on those border line shots. And can also (in just that exact same manor) be the difference between edge of fairway vs rough on the decent but not real good shots. I feel that same help may hold true also for one who hits too high. Its not the norm but there are many amateurs who do suffer from moon shots. i do see them around enough.

How does this work when it's driver spin being too low that causes accuracy issues?

Ok so now your latest question doesnt seem to match what we discussed so Im confused now.
I didnt say too low driver spin causes accuracy issues. I only explained too much driver spin can hurt one who can be somewhat errant with hooking/slicing and struggles with dispersion. Less spin can be desirable in order to help tame that turning type of dispersion. If one slices a ball that spins less it will curve less. Thats how it can help ones dispersion.

 

[Canadan]

I really don't agree with the handicap range or swing speed range of golf ball advertising, despite the fact that so many companies are basically all in on the logic.

Do I get it? Sure, generally speaking, it hits the averages. Do I agree with it? Not at all.

 

[rollin]

We have threads on both balls with tons of reviews but they are quite different.

I understand they are constructed differently. But from what i have found, the compression is very close or the same and spin rates are similar (at least with short club).
If long game numbers are similar enough then its quite possible the two are very similar in thier behavior performance.