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Forgiveness vs. Workability

SuperStroke
staticline said:
For irons, I like a like workability. But, I think 99% of the average golfers are probably losing a couple shots a round trying to work it.

For my driver, I want straight and forgiving. I just bough a 910 D2. When I was getting fitted for it, I was asked if I wanted to try the D3, which has a little more workability in it. My response, "If I'm standing on the tee box thinking I want to work the ball, I probably shouldn't be hitting a driver off that tee box."
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GREAT post. 100% true for me too.
 
For my game I can do the classic aim at the right edge of the fairway with the club face aimed at the center and hit a draw to keep it on the fairway or do the opposite if needed, aim left and align center and hit a fade, but the fade is a little harder for me to pull off and if I swing too hard the ball becomes a straight pull. For irons the only two things I usually do to work the ball is hit higher or lower or sometimes I will have to bend a shot with anything from a 7 iron up to a 3W to help keep it on line and in play or to get out of trouble. Usually I am trying to hit straight shots as much as possible. I don't usually try to bend short irons or wedges at all, those I want to hit straight at the target as much as possible.
 
I've tried playing various blades and started out with them in my game as well.....I like many believe that I am just not good enough to appreciate the workability of those, or the ability to shape a shot in the way the irons are designed to let you, thats why I play game improvement irons now. In my eyes they are just easier to hit straight which for me is the most important part of my game!
 
I play PING S58's, the best of both worlds! Certainly not a "players blade" but I can work them when I need to and they are forgiving as heck. Next to no offset and a nice thin top line.
 
As long as the GI iron allows you control the flight (lower or higher) of the ball then going with the GI iron seems to be the better choice. I say this because it is very seldom that you need to hit a hook or a slice as opposed to a draw or fade. Most GI irons can easily generate a draw or fade.

Keeping it low into the wind, drawing or fading it into a breeze, are needed much more often.
 
ghsace said:
I have to say personally, I prefer workability. Not because I am necessarily great at working the ball; in that regard, I am only mediocre. BUT, I appreciate getting the feeling and instant feedback that comes with clubs that aren't as forgiving. I think, for me anyways (at least I hope), that it will make me a better golfer in the long run.
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This is a question which I'm still trying to find the answer to. Will playing clubs that may be a bit too much for you improve your ball striking in the long run? It seems like everyone has a different answer to this. I used to think yes but now I'm questioning that. I wonder if a better idea (as someone who doesn't work the ball) would be to take lessons to improve ball striking (as I'm doing) and use the most forgiving clubs that you can stand. Perhaps this is one of those questions for which there is no correct answer.
 
Perkins Rooster said:
This is a question which I'm still trying to find the answer to. Will playing clubs that may be a bit too much for you improve your ball striking in the long run? It seems like everyone has a different answer to this. I used to think yes but now I'm questioning that. I wonder if a better idea (as someone who doesn't work the ball) would be to take lessons to improve ball striking (as I'm doing) and use the most forgiving clubs that you can stand. Perhaps this is one of those questions for which there is no correct answer.
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When I bought the MP32's, I had to slow my swing down and really concentrate on ball striking. When I had the luxury of playing all the time, I became a much better ball striker using those clubs. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. I don't think you will find a definite answer to this question though.
 
I think you need to judge whether you need workability in your game first off. Learn to hit straight first, if you are not a consistent swinger then steer clear of working clubs. When workability comes into your game should be when you are not needing as much forgiveness on your irons, i found it as a natural progression. Hit straight first, when that is successful start working the ball. You can hit a draw or a fade with any club.
 
I was playing Nicklaus NPS-2 irons which are a cavity blade.. I decided that I would go the other way and play something more game improvement. Queue the Diablo Forged irons. It's early but right now I look like "Wile E. Coyote... super genius". My GIR's are up in January and it all boiled down to me needing a shot coming down 18. Do I need workability or forgiveness. Under pressure and if my swing wasn't quite right the forgiveness might be the difference maker.

Alex
 
Wouldn't trajectory be more workable because an iron is forged instead of cast? Meaning, if you wanted to control trajectory AND get forgiveness then a forged CB would be best? Or even the new generation GI forged irons (Nike VR-S, Z star, etc?)
 
I have played better than I ever have in my life since I bought my MP32s. Not sure exactly why, but I think the swing and the focus I have had to develop to get good results from hitting this iron has definitely made everything else in the bag seem easier to hit. I can't decide whether a more forgiving iron will help me get to the next level or not. Nothing really seems better than what I have already.
 
I had a set of old Mizuno MP-11 blades that I grew up with. I think that helped develop a lot of my ball striking ability. When I got my current set I still wanted that look of a blade and ability to work the ball but I also wanted a little more forgiveness. That is why I went to a muscle back iron the Mizuno MP-60. I can work the ball a little when I want but I have a little more forgiveness on mishits. I'd say it's a balance between what you feel confident looking down at the ball with and what produces the best result from your shots.
 
I work the ball on every shot, but that is not the reason I play with blades. I use a blade because I cannot stand the look of a cavity back iron. I know it is all in my head but I was raised on blades(hand-me-downs from my family) and they are all I will ever use.
 
I bought my irons pre-THP. I bought them because I was always told that forged irons had better feel and that players irons would give me more ability to go into greens because I could shape the ball. I know now that is not the case. If I had a chance to go back, I would probably have bought GI irons. But I have grown into my irons and love them.
 
I only started shaping shots over the last few months when I finally got to where my instructor thought I was ready to add that to my game. I had already bought my :ping: G20s by then. So I'm not sure if I missing something in the workability area or not. I can induce draws and fades when I need to with my SGI irons. Does the offset make that much of a difference or have l just learned to compensate to get the draw/fade when I need to?
 
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I just switched from gi irons i typicaly dont like a thin top line but when i tried them i hit them really well. i dont work the ball or much concern myself with it at this time. they also have some good forged irons with deep cavitys could be an option depending on what your looking for.
 
Resuscitating this thread because I'm pondering some more forgiving irons, and thought it might be interesting to revisit this. The more I play, the more I realize that 95% of the time, I really just want to hit the damn ball straight or with a slight draw, and I don't want to be punished when I catch one a groove or two low or hit it out on the toe a little bit. No, more forgiving irons will not cure the total bladed shot or the "so far out on the toe it doesn't even touch a groove" shot, but I know for a fact I'd be closer to the mark on the marginal ones. I just love my irons when I'm striking them nicely, and I'm a solid iron player for the most part (for my cap at least), but I can't help but wonder.
 
It's looks and offset. For some reason I tend to be more accurate with less offset and don't like looking down and seeing shovel. Now that being said I do wish more companies would offer really low offset in a smaller GI head.
 
greggdrews said:
It's looks and offset. For some reason I tend to be more accurate with less offset and don't like looking down and seeing shovel. Now that being said I do wish more companies would offer really low offset in a smaller GI head.
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This is me as well. I can't get past it, visually. There are some heads out there that I am quite a fan of though, particularly in the "crossover" type category - Apex, X Hot Pro, RocketBladez Tour, Adams CB3, those types. My trouble is I often don't like the stock shaft offering, and I'm not willing to pay anywhere near full retail, so it's tough. I imagine I will make a change at some point when the right set at the right price comes along, but for now I'll probably stay where I'm at.
 
I am one of those folks that have tried everything and my last set was Alpha blades, custom fit with C taper shafts and I hit them very well 90% of the time. If you miss it you get nothing, but a good strike and you know where the ball is going.

I liked the smaller blade which in my mind made me focus more on hitting the the ball correctly. I had to have the new APEX irons and after a fitting I went for the more GI APEX instead of the Pros, big mistake for me I am just not happy over the ball.

Now I do not have the skill to work the ball on purpose, most of the time I "used" to hit a slight draw with my normal stiff, upright, ugly swing.

Now I have no idea where the ball is going, thought I could sell them quick with a cheap price but no takers at all. Trade in time and after reading Hawk's review I am going to try the XH2 pros and the Prototype MB from Callaway.

It is feel and it is what your eye is happy with, I have played 3 rounds this weekend with rental clubs and some really nice Japanese forged Mizunos and could not break 98, they are big CB clubs with quite a bit of offset.

The answer IMO is you have to be happy with what you are swinging, different things for different folks.

Get fit, get fit again and by all means try use more than a 6 or 7 iron. Most of my shots on par 4's (with a good drive) are 7 iron down and they do not normally let you try those. I believe now it is a plan to make us crazy people buy more clubs.
 
If I decide my Amp Cell Pros are a little too unforgiving for me this year I will be looking at the Apex Pros for sure. I picked up the regular Apex PW at the store and was turned off immediately by the size of the head. The great thing about the Apex Pros is they come with recoil shafts stock which I am loving in my current irons.
 
Joshzilla said:
I don't really think the two are mutually exclusive, but I get your meaning.
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Thainer21 said:
To me, forgiveness and workability isnt connected at all.

Just because a club isnt forgiving, doesnt mean its workable, and vice versa.

All IMO of course..


Forgiveness is mishits,
workability is the golf swing.
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fwiw I think these guys nailed it in that you can have both. I still have a set of 1982 W/S FG-17 tour blades that I have played for years, and now I have Altitude hyrons. Can't get much more polar opposites than that I think. I'm no great player or anything, as I can shoot 80 - 95 on any given day.
I can hit the same basic shots with either set. I never thought I could stomach looking down at anything with a thick topline either, now I could care less. I care more about ball flight than what the club looks like at address. I know the feeling you can get when puring a shot with a blade iron, it gives a great sense of satisfaction. I can tell you though, when I pure one with the Alts it feels just as good and makes me just a s happy. The only difference I can find is that it happens more often with the Altitudes, if I'm honest.
Just my 2 cents.
 
The Rocketbladez Tour for me seem like a good blend of both forgiveness and workability and you should be able to get a good deal on them
 
I bought MP-32s a couple years ago and watched my scores balloon. Swinging the much smaller clubhead took a lot more concentration and mishits vibrated the heck out of my arms. Quickly went back to Rac OS and enjoy golf again. I plan on bringing the MP32s back again one day once I develop a more repeatable swing. I will probably go with something more middle of the road first like Tour Preferred though.

The biggest drawback that I can see with GI is how high the ball goes. Any amount of wind can knock your shot off target.

Secondly is the offset is awful. I wonder if this develops bad ball placement in stance and swing pattern over time...
 
grathan said:
Secondly is the offset is awful. I wonder if this develops bad ball placement in stance and swing pattern over time...
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This is not truly the case. Take Cleveland Altitudes for example that have virtually no offset and are max forgiving irons.
 
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