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2nd Greatest QB this Century???

rollin said:
yea but I didn't send someone to intentionally do it while no one was looking. Big difference there....just sayin :)
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Haha..yeah..so says you and Roger..he hates the Pat's too..whatever happened to the data the NFL has on the football study they conducted after that travesty?
Heard he was giving away KC tickets to the SB...oops..
Just sayin..:)..

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I'm still waiting to hear from 1, just 1 fan that owned tickets before the 1984 season. I remember sitting in Sullivan Stadium with the other 2,000 season ticket holders and maybe 3,000 others for Patriot games. I remember them not wanting to put the new turf at the stadium because they had no fans and wanted to move away. I remember the State and towns voting down the Krafts for the new stadium because nobody believed. They were about to move. He stayed, he paid, he won and here came the fans. Remember Bob owned the stadium before he owned the Patriots. Man, imagine now. 35,000 seats, maybe 8,000 people attending. Now there is a wait list for the hot ticket. Mass fans are the 1st to complain, the 1st to celebrate and the 1st to hop on or off any bandwagon.

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AcushnetGolf said:
I'm still waiting to hear from 1, just 1 fan that owned tickets before the 1984 season. I remember sitting in Sullivan Stadium with the other 2,000 season ticket holders and maybe 3,000 others for Patriot games. I remember them not wanting to put the new turf at the stadium because they had no fans and wanted to move away. I remember the State and towns voting down the Krafts for the new stadium because nobody believed. They were about to move. He stayed, he paid, he won and here came the fans. Remember Bob owned the stadium before he owned the Patriots. Man, imagine now. 35,000 seats, maybe 8,000 people attending. Now there is a wait list for the hot ticket. Mass fans are the 1st to complain, the 1st to celebrate and the 1st to hop on or off any bandwagon.

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Rod Rust 1-15 season said
I'm proud of my team..
I sat at Shaefer Stadium in end zone seats watching Tony Eason being afraid to get hit..at one game we lost 24-7 to the Cardinals and I vowed never to return..
Then Bill Parcells happened and ticket sales went through the roof...

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Muzzy said:
Rod Rust 1-15 season said
I'm proud of my team..
I sat at Shaefer Stadium in end zone seats watching Tony Eason being afraid to get hit..at one game we lost 24-7 to the Cardinals and I vowed never to return..
Then Bill Parcells happened and ticket sales went through the roof...

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Muzzy. Guys like you mentioning Tony Eason, Steve Grogan, Stanley Morgan, Andre Tippett, Gino Capaletti dont exsist anymore. When I ask who was your favorite QB besides Brady, 90% will say Bledsoe. Besides Brady the most common name is Moss. Its like come on man. What was the name of the stadium before Gillette? Um, Patriots stadium...lol. I love hearing the stories though of fans like you who were out for years now riding the wave. Well deserved. I will say Coach Bill is the best ever period

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AcushnetGolf said:
I'm still waiting to hear from 1, just 1 fan that owned tickets before the 1984 season. I remember sitting in Sullivan Stadium with the other 2,000 season ticket holders and maybe 3,000 others for Patriot games. I remember them not wanting to put the new turf at the stadium because they had no fans and wanted to move away. I remember the State and towns voting down the Krafts for the new stadium because nobody believed. They were about to move. He stayed, he paid, he won and here came the fans. Remember Bob owned the stadium before he owned the Patriots. Man, imagine now. 35,000 seats, maybe 8,000 people attending. Now there is a wait list for the hot ticket. Mass fans are the 1st to complain, the 1st to celebrate and the 1st to hop on or off any bandwagon.

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I was like 15, Sorry I didn't have season tix back then but why would you when you could walk up and get a seat 3 rows off the field. My dad used to take us once or twice a year.
I remember when the games were blacked out and we would drive to somewhere that had the game on.
@Muzzy Respect for sitting thru that season. Those were the Dark days. Parcells was a Huge hire. it instantly brought some legitimacy + stability to the Franchise.
My favorite QB besides Brady would be Bledsoe because He was brought in by Parcells with the #1 pick and we went to 2 Super Bowls because of him. The 2001 SB doesn't happen if he doesn't throw the only TD against the Steelers after Brady got hurt.

Sentimentally Grogan, The man was a Beast. He got the crap knocked out of him every week. I don't think I have ever seen another QB were a neck collar.
 
I also remember being scared to walk into the Mens Rooms that still had the troughs. There were some angry drunks back then. Remember the story about the guy peeing on the passed out guy? Turns out the poor guy had had a heart attack..
The Pat's back then were banned from Monday night football because the crowd was so insanely drunk..

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PatsFan said:
I was like 15, Sorry I didn't have season tix back then but why would you when you could walk up and get a seat 3 rows off the field. My dad used to take us once or twice a year.
I remember when the games were blacked out and we would drive to somewhere that had the game on.
@Muzzy Respect for sitting thru that season. Those were the Dark days. Parcells was a Huge hire. it instantly brought some legitimacy + stability to the Franchise.
My favorite QB besides Brady would be Bledsoe because He was brought in by Parcells with the #1 pick and we went to 2 Super Bowls because of him. The 2001 SB doesn't happen if he doesn't throw the only TD against the Steelers after Brady got hurt.

Sentimentally Grogan, The man was a Beast. He got the crap knocked out of him every week. I don't think I have ever seen another QB were a neck collar.
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I hear ya. I'm glad you guys are getting to witness this. Its fans like you guys that deserve all this winning. I watch them weekly, cheer for them but I can't take anymore more titles unless its the Sox or Celts. Lol.

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Muzzy said:
Haha..yeah..so says you and Roger..he hates the Pat's too..whatever happened to the data the NFL has on the football study they conducted after that travesty?
Heard he was giving away KC tickets to the SB...oops..
Just sayin..:)..

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your not really going to defend Brady for the deflate are you? I mean c'mon. Even a fan cant really be that blinded from reality by love and knows when his team/player did something wrong.
 
I rank DeflateGate right up there with BountyGate, and other totally bogus punishments handed out by Commissioner Idiot Roger Goodell... notice how they removed him from anything that has to do with punishments now? I guess they got tired of him embarrassing the league..you are the only person this year that's brought up that ridiculous episode...hey.. are the footballs the correct pressure now? If so, how can they still keep winning?
 
So Brady must get like three or four roughing the passer penalties called for him each game, from the sounds of it. Gotta be more than anyone else in the league, for sure. Say, does anyone have the numbers that would support or defend that position?
 
Muzzy said:
I rank DeflateGate right up there with BountyGate, and other totally bogus punishments handed out by Commissioner Idiot Roger Goodell... notice how they removed him from anything that has to do with punishments now? I guess they got tired of him embarrassing the league..you are the only person this year that's brought up that ridiculous episode...hey.. are the footballs the correct pressure now? If so, how can they still keep winning?
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I brought it up in good fun as per our latest Brady bashing conversations. There isnt too much i can truly bash him on but that is certainly one of them. Its not like i havnt gotten past it but its fitting for the conversation. And it is a legitimate Brady bash. He tried to cheat and he got caught. pretty simple really. The way the NFL handled it (good or bad) isnt relevant.
 
The thing (I think) people have to remember about Brady vs all the other great QB's is that this is 100% a full team sport. That starts and ends with coaching more than anything. Just look at the great QB's through the years in the NFL. Look at how hard it is for a team to go to just one and certainly to more than one SB. It takes about 400 things to all go the right way in order to have a season that ends with a visit to the SB. Its never about one player as much as we might like to think it is. Its far too much a team sport, a team effort, injuries, and a little luck along the way and a coach/coaching staff that has it all correct. No one player by themselves could ever create what has been created here. This entire run for a decade and a half has to be credited mostly to Belicheck and his ways. I have no doubt he would had very similar success with any of the greater QB's because there are just far too many things other than just the QB position that needs to happen in order for something like this to ever take place. In fact just getting to one SB takes whole heck of a lot to happen and go right let alone to have an enormous run like this. Brady is great no doubt and yea i like to bash him. But this amazing run is more on Belichick and his ability as a coach and a football mind.
 
Oh but the way they handled it was very significant
A. No controls to show the pressure of footballs in similar conditions
B. They hired a guy whose previous experience was creating a report that proved second hand smoke is not harmful.
C. Roger Goodell was the judge and jury.
This was a travesty and any reasonable person would consider it so.
This case in conjunction with the other ridiculous overbearing ways he handled "justice" is why the Owners took that responsibility away from him.
DeflateGate was a way to make himself look tough...
It failed..

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Muzzy said:
Oh but the way they handled it was very significant
A. No controls to show the pressure of footballs in similar conditions
B. They hired a guy whose previous experience was creating a report that proved second hand smoke is not harmful.
C. Roger Goodell was the judge and jury.
This was a travesty and any reasonable person would consider it so.
This case in conjunction with the other ridiculous overbearing ways he handled "justice" is why the Owners took that responsibility away from him.
DeflateGate was a way to make himself look tough...
It failed..

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No...deflate gate was about nothing but a QB who tried to sneakily have the footballs deflated illegally (as per the rules) and got caught. They way it was handled is not relevant. He/they got caught. There is still and always will still be that.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
So Brady must get like three or four roughing the passer penalties called for him each game, from the sounds of it. Gotta be more than anyone else in the league, for sure. Say, does anyone have the numbers that would support or defend that position?
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For all the Folks who think Brady gets "A LOT" of bogus calls. This is from Bill Barnwell's ESPN article

"I'd also point out that it's the fourth time Brady has benefited from a roughing the passer call in 1,002 postseason dropbacks since returning from his torn ACL in 2009, which is one penalty for every 250.5 dropbacks. Teams like the Cardinals and Vikings have benefited from roughing the passer penalties more frequently over that same time frame, and the mark is right in line with the Pats' regular-season average since 2009 (224.5 dropbacks per roughing the passer call). It was a bad call, but it's also not representative of special treatment for Brady in the postseason, as much as that one play might suggest otherwise."
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Rollin: You obviously don't like the Patriots and Choose to accept everything Goodell and his crew puts forth. There is Science Backing Tom Brady in Deflategate but you just choose to IGNORE IT. Do you believe the Earth is flat also?

The only thing Deflategate proved was, Was that Rodger Goodell could do whatever he wanted by using Article 46 in the Collective Bargaining agreement.

It's all good but In Reality your just here Trolling. Please Keep telling me How much better Aaron Rodgers is.
 
I gotta troll now. Lol. I have a very good friend who WORKED for the Pats until he got caught videotaping the Jets signals on the sideline as instructed. They gave him a Superbowl ring and let Bill pay the 250,000 and sent him on his way. If anyone needs golf lesson in Arizona ( i wont saybwhere) but you may just find him. His is now a golf instructor.

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Haha, so says Roger Goodell. Zero Proof....Zero....
Why do you think he wouldn't allow a third party arbitrator to be part of the "DeflateGate" process?

Because..
He created a mess in every other Rules Violation Punishment that he ran, namely..

BountyGate...former NFL Commissioner Tagliabue overruled his decisions and punishments saying he had overstepped his authority.
RiceGate...3rd party arbitrator a former federal judge ruled the league (Goodell) had punished Rice unfairly, and his ban should be overturned, she ridiculed his findings...

For DeflateGate he wanted to be the Judge, the Jury and the Executioner to avoid the embarrassment of his ridiculous rulings and punishments again...he's a clown...

So keep thinking they did it...

Meanwhile we're looking forward to Ring #6...I hope it's warm in the MB Dome in Atlanta so the balls stay inflated...(drops mic, walks away).......
 
This is a tough question for me to answer. I can easily think of one guy today and change my mind tomorrow.

But I will still answer, at this moment my choice would be Peyton.
 
I say its Brady. Rodgers is #1 (just look at the stats). If Brady didnt play in the AFC, wheres theres no much real competition for the Patriots, he wouldnt even be in the conversation for #1. Not to mention Brady's legacy will forever be tainted by cheating.
 
Badger_Golfer said:
I say its Brady. Rodgers is #1 (just look at the stats). If Brady didnt play in the AFC, wheres theres no much real competition for the Patriots, he wouldnt even be in the conversation for #1. Not to mention Brady's legacy will forever be tainted by cheating.
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Aaron Rodgers is quoted as saying he prefers over inflated footballs..
Too bad Roger didnt investigate him...

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Muzzy said:
Aaron Rodgers is quoted as saying he prefers over inflated footballs..
Too bad Roger didnt investigate him...

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DeflateGate was dumb. All QBs work on the balls pregame to get them to feel right. Heck, I did in HS.

But what seems to be forgotten is that the severity of the punishment was based on Brady not being forthcoming. He destroyed his cell phone and his texts to the ball boys were pretty damning. Probably would have been less of a big deal if he just copped to it and didn't fight it in the courts. All that said, it was still dumb, and definitely felt like Goodell had an axe to grind witht the Pats.

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JMB3 said:
DeflateGate was dumb. All QBs work on the balls pregame to get them to feel right. Heck, I did in HS.

But what seems to be forgotten is that the severity of the punishment was based on Brady not being forthcoming. He destroyed his cell phone and his texts to the ball boys were pretty damning. Probably would have been less of a big deal if he just copped to it and didn't fight it in the courts. All that said, it was still dumb, and definitely felt like Goodell had an axe to grind witht the Pats.

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Agreed on all points...great post..

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Badger_Golfer said:
I say its Brady. Rodgers is #1 (just look at the stats). If Brady didnt play in the AFC, wheres theres no much real competition for the Patriots, he wouldnt even be in the conversation for #1. Not to mention Brady's legacy will forever be tainted by cheating.
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Give him credit.....he has to play my Jets twice a year. That's not easy to stomach and bother suiting up for. Though we did pass him twice under Rex not too long ago. Not to mention the dynasties of the Bills and the Fish over the past decade.
 
PatsFan said:
For all the Folks who think Brady gets "A LOT" of bogus calls. This is from Bill Barnwell's ESPN article



Rollin: You obviously don't like the Patriots and Choose to accept everything Goodell and his crew puts forth. There is Science Backing Tom Brady in Deflategate but you just choose to IGNORE IT. Do you believe the Earth is flat also?

The only thing Deflategate proved was, Was that Rodger Goodell could do whatever he wanted by using Article 46 in the Collective Bargaining agreement.

It's all good but In Reality your just here Trolling. Please Keep telling me How much better Aaron Rodgers is.
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Sorry for the long post :)

Ok ...Rogers has more talent.LOL you asked.... And to boot. If he was the pats QB the past 15 years under the genius of the Belichick regime they might have more SB appearances and more wins than they currently do. So would have Manning and fwiw if we took Dan Marino out of his relaxed rules era (Brady doesn't handle getting rattled well at all) and transformed Marino to this one and been the pats QB the past 15 yrs he would not only have done it but probably exceeded brady in just about all stats. How about Elway, then of course Brees (you don't think he would've done it too?).

Point is that stuff can be said and it wouldn't be wrong for one to imply them and there are reasons people can make cases for most any of the greats as being better than another. Why is it so hard to take that? Brady being one of the greats has been fortunate to fall into a system put together by a genius of a football mind. Bill is the GOAT for this incredible run. Bill could have done this with most any "the great" QB's imo and with some of their talents maybe even better but Brady couldn't have done this without the real GOAT that is Bill and the "teams" he has produced out there and the way they perform for him. That doesn't mean Brady isn't great nor does it mean Nrady would not have also been great elsewhere. but it does mean that anyone can say hes not the GOAT QB if they feel otherwsie. Not when there are others and not when this is so very much a team sport.

As I said earlier in the thread when it comes the greats QB's of the game its very hard to give them a set specific order of greatness and imo they don't need one. Fwiw they don't ever technically play against each other at all. I really don't think its fair to do it because its such a team sport that relies heavily on coaching and so many other things. It is very fair to think if a number of the other great QB's fell where he did they too could have the same and even more success. That's being taken as an insult towards Brady. Its not an insult. Its not saying he isn't one of the greats. Its just recognizing that there are other greats who were not as fortunate to fall in the place where he did. And saying that another great QB (or more than one) has more talent is also not at all in any way wrong to imply. Its acceptable. Stats including winning SB do not at all tell the whole story when it comes to judging the great QB's in football in a specific set order of talent. This is not like the only one true Goat wayne gretzy who has left even the other greats of his game significantly behind. There is he and then there is the other greats a whole step down form there. This is just not the case with Brady. He doesn't have to be the GOAT at all. And it can certainly be challenged for valid reasons that people feel other had/have more talent. They just didn't fall where he was fortunate to fall. That being in what is probably the best coached team and system dynasty any sport has ever seen.
 
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