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  • I've played muni's in my area about 10 times starting in January. I'm thinking play has sped up in general and it is an improvement. On my trip go Myrtle beach in a few weeks I may get a shock of reality. In my group, I think we are faster because of the PIN in. We always play ready golf but now we do so even around the green. We were guessing others doing the same thing

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    • Originally posted by tgtt View Post
      Private courses have issues too. At least mine does...

      Mondays: closed until 10am for maintenance.
      Wednesday:. "geezer" golf. Actual name the old guys call it but allow anyone to play. 4 man blind draw starts at 830 when warm and 12 when cold.
      Thursday:. Women's day. Can still play but they don't have to let anyone play play thru and lasts until 12 or 2 but it's their day and not sure they recognize an end time. Afternoons are men's league.
      Friday:. Couples league. Busiest of them all and basically eliminates the 3-7 block.

      I'm sure I'm forgetting other things too such as boys and girls golf teams and probably more.

      I'm not complaining as I still have it better than most but there a many things to consider still when planning a round.

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      wow thats a lot of limitations. Kind of places a damper on things imo.
      Whats with the womens day? Is there a mens day?
      I mean i can certainly see a womens league if there are enough participants. But why a womens day? Ive seen this at another place too and i dont really get it. Is anyone stopping women from playing during any other time that something else isnt going on? Are women being blocked out during normal operations? I just dont see why block a big chunk (2/3 a whole day) just to have a women's day for the sake of it. Do they need a special day to golf? Cant they just play when they want?
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      • Originally posted by rollin View Post
        wow thats a lot of limitations. Kind of places a damper on things imo.
        Whats with the womens day? Is there a mens day?
        I mean i can certainly see a womens league if there are enough participants. But why a womens day? Ive seen this at another place too and i dont really get it. Is anyone stopping women from playing during any other time that something else isnt going on? Are women being blocked out during normal operations? I just dont see why block a big chunk (2/3 a whole day) just to have a women's day for the sake of it. Do they need a special day to golf? Cant they just play when they want?
        My private course has Women's day on Wedensdays and its a real PITA. Not because of the players but because of the way it's run. They set aside all the morning tee times for women and only women which is fantastic if there were more than about 8 women that actually play during that designated time. The course reserves 24 freaking premium tee times for 1-4 groups. It's our club's way of saying "look you matter too." Of course, there are absolutely no restrictions on women playing any other time the course is open.

        How does that relate to pace of play? Well, it really doesn't... So I digress.
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        • Originally posted by Awstyn View Post

          I think about this issue a bit. There are two things I believe individuals should focus on:

          1.) Donít rush, but be ready. Be aware. Before someoneís turn or when they are getting ready is not the time to start a discussion. I still see this happening too often.

          2.) Develop a routine. I used to take a full practice swing before every shot. Iíll loosen up out of address when I need to, but unless Iím trying something out of normal (curving, punching, side hill) I donít take a practice swing and honestly see no difference in results. Not saying you have to give up practice swings at all, but the routine and knowing what you are going to do will make you and everyone else more comfortable.
          These are both great points. Over the last five years I've played with a lot of new or returning to the game golfers including women and some retired guys. We play very social rounds of golf. The instincts & knowledge of how to get around a course smoothly and in a timely fashion can be a challenge for many of them. My wife started playing about 5 years ago and she plays most of her rounds with me and has made tremendous advances in learning how to be ready to play. She plays a forward tee box and now always has her club selected and pulled, ball & tee in hand(spare ball in pocket on water holes) and does really well getting the ball in play and often past some of our playing partners'. One of the recently retired guys loves getting out and playing. He was a very active guy his whole life and the wear and tear simply don't allow him to move very quickly. Even getting the ball on a tee can be a struggle. Often I will hit first, watch another buddy hit (he's in his 60's, hits it well but struggles to see where the ball ends up) then I get back to the cart while the 3rd guy hits. He should move up a box and does if we have another senior with us but rarely hits a fairway. After he gets on in play my wife and advance to her tee box and she plays her shot. So the 3rd guy is usually next to play and even being delivered to his ball (usually which I've found for him in the rough) he's not real quick addressing the ball and taking a shot. Hopefully he advances it far enough that he's not hitting next or again before we get to our tee shots.

          A whole round of it can be exhausting. My old regular partner's and my games have suffered over the last years simply due to the effort of bringing our other buddy (and sometimes my wife - she's gotten much better, should be breaking a 100 this year) along but we love 'em. They are great companions on & off the course. We truly enjoy playing as 4somes and during the times we choose to play, weekend afternoons, we are able to more than keep up with the pace, but it can be a lot of work. Tracking not only your own ball but 2 or 3 of your playing partners. At times managing the other cart or clubs (we all hit into ponds or OB and need a different club or to walk down the far side of the hole away from the cart path).

          So next time you are behind a group on a course full of 4somes remember there's a reason we're out there too... Sometimes accommodating your round of speed golf before a hot date just isn't high on the priority list...
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          • Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
            I thought the whole point of a charity day was to get sozzled and try to play some golf, and win longest drive or nearest to the pin
            Agreed; just not how Iíd like to spend my day.
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            • Originally posted by DaBuckBoys View Post
              These are both great points. Over the last five years I've played with a lot of new or returning to the game golfers including women and some retired guys. We play very social rounds of golf. The instincts & knowledge of how to get around a course smoothly and in a timely fashion can be a challenge for many of them. My wife started playing about 5 years ago and she plays most of her rounds with me and has made tremendous advances in learning how to be ready to play. She plays a forward tee box and now always has her club selected and pulled, ball & tee in hand(spare ball in pocket on water holes) and does really well getting the ball in play and often past some of our playing partners'. One of the recently retired guys loves getting out and playing. He was a very active guy his whole life and the wear and tear simply don't allow him to move very quickly. Even getting the ball on a tee can be a struggle. Often I will hit first, watch another buddy hit (he's in his 60's, hits it well but struggles to see where the ball ends up) then I get back to the cart while the 3rd guy hits. He should move up a box and does if we have another senior with us but rarely hits a fairway. After he gets on in play my wife and advance to her tee box and she plays her shot. So the 3rd guy is usually next to play and even being delivered to his ball (usually which I've found for him in the rough) he's not real quick addressing the ball and taking a shot. Hopefully he advances it far enough that he's not hitting next or again before we get to our tee shots.

              A whole round of it can be exhausting. My old regular partner's and my games have suffered over the last years simply due to the effort of bringing our other buddy (and sometimes my wife - she's gotten much better, should be breaking a 100 this year) along but we love 'em. They are great companions on & off the course. We truly enjoy playing as 4somes and during the times we choose to play, weekend afternoons, we are able to more than keep up with the pace, but it can be a lot of work. Tracking not only your own ball but 2 or 3 of your playing partners. At times managing the other cart or clubs (we all hit into ponds or OB and need a different club or to walk down the far side of the hole away from the cart path).

              So next time you are behind a group on a course full of 4somes remember there's a reason we're out there too... Sometimes accommodating your round of speed golf before a hot date just isn't high on the priority list...
              I'd imagine that you're letting other groups through though right? If your buddy is really struggling and you can't keep pace that is.

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              • Originally posted by JonD View Post
                [...] waiting (sometimes up to 20 minutes) between shots.
                That's brutal -- I don't know how you did it. My game completely falls apart when I have to wait 5+ minutes between shots.

                What bothers me most about slow play is that many think it's coming from low-skill/high-HC players. It's not a skill issue. I played a round last week at a local muni course, paired up with two others, and both my game and one other guys' was awful -- multiple lost balls, the occasional second tee shot, etc. Total time: 3:22. And never felt like we were moving overly fast. It's reading putts forever, a dozen practice swings on each shot, not playing ready golf, and other course management issues that hold up play ... all stuff that should be very easy for anyone to learn.

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                • Originally posted by zoned_post_meri View Post
                  That's brutal -- I don't know how you did it. My game completely falls apart when I have to wait 5+ minutes between shots.

                  What bothers me most about slow play is that many think it's coming from low-skill/high-HC players. It's not a skill issue. I played a round last week at a local muni course, paired up with two others, and both my game and one other guys' was awful -- multiple lost balls, the occasional second tee shot, etc. Total time: 3:22. And never felt like we were moving overly fast. It's reading putts forever, a dozen practice swings on each shot, not playing ready golf, and other course management issues that hold up play ... all stuff that should be very easy for anyone to learn.
                  Poor play doesnt have to be an issue but sometimes it can be. The pooreer the play the harder the person needs to work in order to not become an issue. And if a group has a couple or the entire group playing very badly it can add up to a problem. But that's only when the players do not take care of their play with a sense of urgency and awareness of pace. So it dosnt come down to the play but it comes down to the person. Whenever I play badly (Im talking 100) I simply adjust everything I do in order to make it work pace wise. I walk much quicker and get ready quicker and take care of all my golf business with greater effort so that to make certain it wont cause an issue. And on those times when things are really bad I will even pick up just to respect the pace. Let lost balls go with only minimal effort to locate, etc,etc..
                  Its when people (and they are out there) play badly but then don't adjust nor make the extra required effort due to their play being outright bad is when bad play becomes a pace problem. Again its not the play itself but is the person.

                  So of course there are a percentage of bad players who are a problem. But very many bad players do make the efforts to move faster , let lost balls go, and even pick up when they need to and do whats necessary not to become a problem. I think most do from my experiences. I see far more a pace issue from better players than I do from bad players. Many better players tend to spend an eternity searching for the couple/few balls they may errantly hit, take their sweat long time preparing for their shots, often not playing with a ready golf mindset , and don't even get me started with all antics as for how they go about chipping on the greens and putting. Many have this idea in their mind that because they play well they cannot be a pace problem at all and they have all the time they want and no clue that they actually are an issue. Yet they then quickly look to blame the poorer players and tee choices and everyone but themselves.

                  Bottom line is slow play issues can and do come from all levels of ability. Its the player not the play. I been in countless groups with mixed bag of ability levels and countless times found the best player/s in the group was the slowest one/s of all. But to be fair Ive also seen the bad player fail to see that they need to adjust what they are doing in order to make up for time. So it works both ways.
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                  • Handicap has absolutely zero to do with slow play. Slow players are slow. It's a mindset.


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                    • Originally posted by Golf Ghost View Post
                      Handicap has absolutely zero to do with slow play. Slow players are slow. It's a mindset.


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                      While I agree with this for the most part, looking for a ball in the woods takes longer than hitting a ball from the fairway. Even poor golfers can play fast though if they are ready to play when itís their turn.
                      My frustration is watching Tour golfers take forever and new golfers replicating that behavior on the golf course.
                      I listen to a podcast called Shotgun Start. They followed Kisner and Dechambeau one round in the US Open and timed every shot. Kisner took an average of 12 seconds to play a shot and Dechanbeau took 40. Kisner scored better that day. Koepka plays fast and I consider him to be the best player on tour right now.
                      Regardless of skill level, anyone can be ready to play when itís their turn and this should be instilled in new golfers. The recent NCAA matches took forever and that shouldnít be allowed to happen.


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                      • Originally posted by Golf Ghost View Post
                        Handicap has absolutely zero to do with slow play. Slow players are slow. It's a mindset.


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                        I agree to an extent.

                        Certain course setups that have a lot of forced carries, OB areas, water, thick rough and other things that can easily trap a higher handicapper will slow down those groups more than a group full of lower handicappers. That's just how it is.

                        That being if all other things are equal, speed at walking, decision making etc etc

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                        • Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
                          I agree to an extent.

                          Certain course setups that have a lot of forced carries, OB areas, water, thick rough and other things that can easily trap a higher handicapper will slow down those groups more than a group full of lower handicappers. That's just how it is.

                          That being if all other things are equal, speed at walking, decision making etc etc
                          There's always variables. Again though, I still believe it goes back to mindset more than anything based on 5 years of collecting pace of play data for two courses.
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                          • Originally posted by Golf Ghost View Post
                            Handicap has absolutely zero to do with slow play. Slow players are slow. It's a mindset.


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                            and its also a mindset of the course management itself. I go back to my post about tee time intervals needing elbow room in order for pace to ever work in the first place.

                            My old place of residence area was constant 5 plus hr rounds and often 5.5 and even longer vs where I live now for years is 4 to 4.5 (usually about 4:20) on weekends an often can be 4 or rarer but can even be less. The only difference between the two areas is that my county uses 10 minute tee intervals vs my old place/s used 7 minutes. Same types of players and people, nothing different about anyone or anything. The only difference was tee time intervals. A golf course has no business preaching pace when they themselves are causing the issue from the first tee and want to get as many greens fees as they can and it comes at the expense of good pace. Its a farce and its hypocritical.

                            Unfortunately my county this year decided to bring the intervals down to 9 minutes from the 10. I did not know this at first. I usually head out as a single with no reservation and so I just plug when when a spot opens. Without having any clue about the new tee times I did notice that the pace had become a bit slower than normal. It just seemed liked the rounds were living more on the longer side of the normal spectrum. I was simply thinking I was just got a bit unlucky that several rounds I played in were the ones which took a bit longer. And then I come to find out they changed the times down to 9 from 10. And that's when I realized I wasn't just unlucky ending up in a few slower sided paced rounds but instead that one less minute of less elbow room between tee times has now increased the rounds times a bit. That one minute is all it took. Ok so its not 7 but it made a noticeable difference being 9 vs 10. We use toi get to part 3's with a group on the green and wait an now its become norm to have a grouo still teeing off as we make our way to the 3. I mean just that one minute has affected things. As said I had no idea and simply thought I was unlucky to coincidentally play in rounds that were slower than average. But now I see because of the one minute difference it has actually had a negative affect and moved the average up a to be a bit longer.

                            They got too greedy. Not only increased fees but now squeezing in more groups. One minute sounds like nothing but tee times (concerning the required elbow room neede in order to work well) reach a curve of diminished returns at some point. From 12 to 11 may not mean anything pace wise and from 11 to 10 may have some but minimal affect. But 10 to 9 has become very noticeable and imo crosses that line where now its felt and no longer works so well. And of course less than 9 would be even worse eventually reaching the disaster my old courses had pace wise with their 7 minute tee times.
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                            • Agreed, a group of decent players will usually outpace a group of poor players, and the notion that a poor player making 8's is going to keep up with a bogey golfer easily if they just play ready golf is plain wrong, they can't.

                              This disparity in player skill is probably the biggest cause of slow play on any given course, although just plain old congestion and the courses unwillingness to gap tee times to allow for it is really the biggest issue IMO.

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                              • Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
                                I agree to an extent.

                                Certain course setups that have a lot of forced carries, OB areas, water, thick rough and other things that can easily trap a higher handicapper will slow down those groups more than a group full of lower handicappers. That's just how it is.

                                That being if all other things are equal, speed at walking, decision making etc etc
                                yea I can agree but the problem is that very many better cappers are very capable of causing gridlock in a desert. can be human rain delays. Many can spend much more time playing there better played game than the higher cappers do playing their lousy one. That is not at all uncommon. In fact is far from uncommon. It does work both ways. And because of the better play that better player who is the human rain delay dos not for one second even consider that he is a problem.
                                I golf because I can But I stink because I can't

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