What club design technology do you NOT believe in?

[Browndog]

Do you HONESTLY think loft is the only thing adding distance? That’s pretty staggering to me.

There is certainly more to it than loft.

Hot faces with more springiness, hollow bodied construction, cavities, tungsten weighting, multi materials, bottom slots, wrap around faces, Titanium. Lighter weight shafts.

All kinds of tech to help with whatever a golfer wants help with: More launch or less launch. More spin or less spin. More forgiveness on off center hits. More distance or less distance.
More consistent carry distances. More accuracy. More club head speed. More curve or less curve.

All else being equal, a 7 or 8 degree loft difference will create very different outcomes. That is about a 2 club yardage gap. Add in technology and maybe it’s a 3 club yardage gap.

It really doesn’t matter what the loft is or number on the club as long as it produces the trajectory, spin, landing angle, yardage and gapping that you need.

My 7 iron has 34 degrees of loft and my 5 iron has 26 degrees of loft.

Whenever someone asks me what club I hit generally I give them the yardage, I’ll say something like I played it at 155 yards because the number on the club has become kind of irrelevant.

 

[Jman]

There is certainly more to it than loft.

Hot faces with more springiness, hollow bodied construction, cavities, tungsten weighting, multi materials, bottom slots, wrap around faces, Titanium. Lighter weight shafts.

All kinds of tech to help with whatever a golfer wants help with: More launch or less launch. More spin or less spin. More forgiveness on off center hits. More distance or less distance.
More consistent carry distances. More accuracy. More club head speed. More curve or less curve.

All else being equal, a 7 or 8 degree loft difference will create very different outcomes. That is about a 2 club yardage gap. Add in technology and maybe it’s a 3 club yardage gap.

It really doesn’t matter what the loft is or number on the club as long as it produces the trajectory, spin, landing angle, yardage and gapping that you need.

My 7 iron has 34 degrees of loft and my 5 iron has 26 degrees of loft.

Whenever someone asks me what club I hit generally I give them the yardage, I’ll say something like I played it at 155 yards because the number on the club has become kind of irrelevant.

I usually give them yardages instead of numbers now because people seem to get so hurt about it nowadays

 

[PuffChippy]

Not to totally derail this thread but I have 3 sets where the 37" club with 32 degrees of loft in one set is an 8 iron, another where it's the 7 iron, and another where that's the 5 iron. They all have different shafts and different tech in the head but IRL you'd be hard pressed to notice a whole lot of distance difference between the 3 on well struck shots. The modern tech is helping for sure, but for the most part that's not what makes todays 8 iron as long as yesterday's 5 iron. Where this causes me trouble is switching back and forth. I know how far my primary irons go, but then when I switch I either have to move up or down depending on what I'm using and it's not always a 1:1 correlation.

All that said, I don't think there's any tech I'd say I don't believe in, it's the marketing claims that I tend to have trouble with.

 

[Paladin]

Heel/toe weight-shifting to fix or even noticeably manipulate shot shape has just not worked out for me.

Wedges that spin more because of their groove technology is a sales game. New wedges will spin more than old wedges, plain & simple, but it's not because the grooves from this year are superior to the grooves from last year aside from play wear.

 

[erock9174]

Not to totally derail this thread but I have 3 sets where the 37" club with 32 degrees of loft in one set is an 8 iron, another where it's the 7 iron, and another where that's the 5 iron. They all have different shafts and different tech in the head but IRL you'd be hard pressed to notice a whole lot of distance difference between the 3 on well struck shots. The modern tech is helping for sure, but for the most part that's not what makes todays 8 iron as long as yesterday's 5 iron. Where this causes me trouble is switching back and forth. I know how far my primary irons go, but then when I switch I either have to move up or down depending on what I'm using and it's not always a 1:1 correlation.

All that said, I don't think there's any tech I'd say I don't believe in, it's the marketing claims that I tend to have trouble with.

Out of curiosity if you took the 3 lofts that match, are the shaft lengths the same or are they up to an inch in difference?

My rub with joft jacking is shaft lengths. If an oem also jacks the lengths they work for me up to a point.

I can make a 26* 37.75 iron work no matter if that is called a 5i, 6i or 7i.
But when you make it 26* and 37" it does me no good any longer because I do not have the speed to get that loft into the air no matter how much tech in the head it has.

 

[Tenputt]

I am repeating what has been said, but I haven’t seen any measurable benefit from technology touted to be aerodynamic. It could be because my swing speed is not fast enough to take advantage of it.

I also don’t believe that Squairz shoes increase your distance by 8 yards (or whatever they tout), even though I think that they are great shoes.

 

[hackitup]

High launch, low spin shafts. I used to believe in it, but after hearing some of the experts on Off-Course I'm not sure I do anymore.

 

[Iceman!]

TaylorMade RocketBallz Fairway Woods gives you 17 additional yards

 

[Ooo]

I disagree vehemently on that, but my stance against the loft army is well known.

I would ask, IF that were true, who cares? Does it hurt peoples ego to see others hitting it further?

My problem with them is that I don't hit them as far. Can't begin to get them in the air.

 

[pumbaa]

For me it would have to be turbulators as well.

 

[erock9174]

My problem with them is that I don't hit them as far. Can't begin to get them in the air.

Goes back to my points above. if you jack the lofts and also jack the lengths it works out up to a certain point (for each person its different), but for us slower swingers, a 22* 6i at 37.5" or 25* 7i at 37" isn't going to elevate enough. It's nice that most if not all oems offer irons that can come 2* weak.

Having said that though I could see someone with a fast swing speed advocating for jacked lofts. My buddy went from 20 yr old Mizzy blades, where his 5i carried 185 to JPX HM Pro's and now he carries his 8i that far on a much shorter shaft which helps his accuracy and overall consistency. If I could get equal distance like that via jacked lofts I would.

 

[PuffChippy]

Out of curiosity if you took the 3 lofts that match, are the shaft lengths the same or are they up to an inch in difference?

That's the funny part because each club just so happens to be 37 inches long with 32 degrees of loft (plus or minus a degree of reported loft), the only difference is the number on the club head. A better test would be to shaft each one the same and make sure everything like swing weight, total weight, etc is exactly the same except for the club head itself and see what differences you get. I think someone has done something similar and IIRC found that modern tech can add 3-5 yards on avg but other than that the difference just comes down to loft itself. Now forgiveness, that's a different matter.

 

[Realmfg]

That's the funny part because each club just so happens to be 37 inches long with 32 degrees of loft (plus or minus a degree of reported loft), the only difference is the number on the club head. A better test would be to shaft each one the same and make sure everything like swing weight, total weight, etc is exactly the same except for the club head itself and see what differences you get. I think someone has done something similar and IIRC found that modern tech can add 3-5 yards on avg but other than that the difference just comes down to loft itself. Now forgiveness, that's a different matter.

I have had the exact same results on my simulator. If the lofts match, its damn close.

 

[russtopher]

For me it would have to be turbulators as well.

My vote also.

 

[rallo]

This might be a hot take. For me it is the carbon crown/frame. I understand what is does, and why they do it, but I'm unsure if it provides any tangible difference. Especially since a few companies like srixon don't use it on their drivers, and I hit them just a far as all the companies rolling out the carbon crown/frame. It seems like an overengineered way to justify an inflated price tag.

 

[erock9174]

This might be a hot take. For me it is the carbon crown/frame. I understand what is does, and why they do it, but I'm unsure if it provides any tangible difference. Especially since a few companies like srixon don't use it on their drivers, and I hit them just a far as all the companies rolling out the carbon crown/frame. It seems like an overengineered way to justify an inflated price tag.

Not to mention Titlleist and Ping (mom LST model) hang in there on ball speed.

 

[Mark_UK]

Jacked lofts!

Have commented on this several times in the past, there's a reason a lot of the iron sets are 5 - W, W2, W2, W3. The 5i is 3i loft. Realize these might work with a decent swing speed, but with my sub 70 any set of irons with a 7i of less than 33° gives me a lot of problems. In all honesty I don't hit any iron good so the jacked lofts really hurt me.

I’m not a great iron player, but the 4 iron used to be one of my favourite clubs to hit. Now I can’t hit one for the life of me. Stronger lofts are definitely one of the mains reasons I now need to carry more hybrids and fewer irons.
Turbulators seem to be a popular answer, and although I hit my current Ping driver further than any previous driver, I probably wouldn’t put that down to the turbulators. But credit to Ping, they found what they thought was a design that worked and have stuck with it. Unlike, say Callaway, who obviously agreed with the rest of us and thought Boeings contribution to their drivers was marketing bs.

 

[Bosco...]

So I’ll settle the iron tech debate right here. Or stir the ****, however you want to view it. Looking at adding a utility iron to my bag and sifting through numbers





Aside from the fact my irons are 20 years old (and I love them) the Ping Crossover is a mere 1/2 degree stronger and 3/4” longer. Cut it the same length and tell me there’s not considerable tech there.

 

[G-Man]

Carbonface is not working ...

 

[Wantacigar]

I have a set of Cobra 3100 i/h irons with Dynamic Gold S flex shafts I bought in 2002. The 7 iron is 33*. Two years ago I bought Sim2 Max irons with KBS Max 85 S flex shafts. The 7 iron is 28.5* I hit them the same distance. I get more height on the Sim2. . Obviously my swing speed has noticeably slowed. I find the Sim2 Max easier to hit and get it up high for a nice height.
I think they had to jack the lofts to offset the MOI and not for more distance.
I have never hit a 7 iron more than 160 yds whether it was 33* or 28.5*

 

[Jman]

I have a set of Cobra 3100 i/h irons with Dynamic Gold S flex shafts I bought in 2002. The 7 iron is 33*. Two years ago I bought Sim2 Max irons with KBS Max 85 S flex shafts. The 7 iron is 28.5* I hit them the same distance. I get more height on the Sim2. . Obviously my swing speed has noticeably slowed. I find the Sim2 Max easier to hit and get it up high for a nice height.
I think they had to jack the lofts to offset the MOI and not for more distance.
I have never hit a 7 iron more than 160 yds whether it was 33* or 28.5*

 

[erock9174]

I have a set of Cobra 3100 i/h irons with Dynamic Gold S flex shafts I bought in 2002. The 7 iron is 33*. Two years ago I bought Sim2 Max irons with KBS Max 85 S flex shafts. The 7 iron is 28.5* I hit them the same distance. I get more height on the Sim2. . Obviously my swing speed has noticeably slowed. I find the Sim2 Max easier to hit and get it up high for a nice height.
I think they had to jack the lofts to offset the MOI and not for more distance.
I have never hit a 7 iron more than 160 yds whether it was 33* or 28.5*

I’d be curious the difference if you put the max 85 shaft in the cobra irons. I’d think a bunch of it has to do with shaft profile there. DG Gold vs max85 are worlds different.

 

[Daddio]

I think all the tech makes some difference, it's just physics. But those differences are orders of magnitude less than OEM marketers insinuate.

 

[PuffChippy]

I have a set of Cobra 3100 i/h irons with Dynamic Gold S flex shafts I bought in 2002. The 7 iron is 33*. Two years ago I bought Sim2 Max irons with KBS Max 85 S flex shafts. The 7 iron is 28.5* I hit them the same distance. I get more height on the Sim2. . Obviously my swing speed has noticeably slowed. I find the Sim2 Max easier to hit and get it up high for a nice height.
I think they had to jack the lofts to offset the MOI and not for more distance.
I have never hit a 7 iron more than 160 yds whether it was 33* or 28.5*

The Sim2 Max 7i is 28.5 degrees and 37.25 inches long
My Fluid Feel 7i is 39 degrees and 36.25 inches long

All else being equal with solid impact, I’d bet that you hit that Sim2 Max 7i almost 3 clubs longer than the Fluid Feel 7i, which you should be. That’s what they’re selling. The difference in spin would be shocking as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Fluid Feel 7i had close to twice the spin.

 

[Jman]

I love that this thread has done exactly what I expected it to.