Want to guess my new (to me) driver? Could be fun....

ryebread · May 26, 2012

As the signature suggests, I've been in the market for a new driver. I figured it might be fun for people to try to guess what I ended up with. If this is too long, skip to the bottom and the red text. :act-up:

DISCLAIMER: I am "frugal." I can't really stomach the idea of buying new off the shelf (and the depreciation), so I only will buy clubs that are 1-3 years old. I live in a large urban area where people make fairly good salaries but are highly transient and often leave to move overseas. This means that I can typically be patient and find clubs in pretty good condition for reasonable prices. Some makes (TaylorMade, Titelist, Mizuno) are also just too expensive, regardless of how good they might be. I'm also concerned about resale value in case my pick turns out to be a bad one.

About my swing: I'd quit golf for about 10 years and just got back into it a year ago. Historically, I have fought a vicious slice that was in large part due to trying to swing too hard (wrists just never got the timing right). I was also too mechanical and thought too much about swing elements. Since starting back, I've basically decided to just slow the swing down (particularly the back swing), do what feels natural and have spent some time working on my grip. On full swings, my wedges are now pretty much dead straight, my irons play a draw and my hybrids go between straight and a slight fade. I'm still a high handicapper though due to wasted shots on the drive and a poor pitching game.

I now swing the driver about 85 MPH. I hit clubs fairly high, particularly off the tee and get little to no roll out. Well hit shots can go straight and have a distance that I'm satisfied with, but misses are short, high fades or slices.

A recent epiphany: I only started hitting with a launch monitor as a result of this process. Everything I'd purchased previously had been based on reviews and trial and error (buy something, don't like it, swap it out). I'd been playing some HL drivers (13 degrees) based on some back of napkin calculations based solely upon swing speed. I found out (consistent across several different monitors in different stores) that my launch angle is actually quite high (well over 20 degrees with the HL clubs). Playing around over some sessions with a couple of fitters suggested that 10.5 degrees paired with a regular flex shaft was about ideal for most of the clubs I was testing.

What I'm looking for: With the low swing speed, I'm obviously not a long hitter. Like everyone, I would like a bit more distance. More importantly, I'd like to eliminate the right hand side and play from the short grass so I'm not wasting shots on recovery or penalty drops.

Testing methodology: I know launch monitors can be "juiced." I tested across different stores and monitors with my baseline club and found one that seemed to read fairly accurately with what I see on the range and with my GPS on the course. Even then I took the absolute distance numbers and yardage offline with a grain of salt. When it came time to pick, I had one multi-hour session on the same monitor with me doing the operating (no shenanigans happening between clubs). I focused more on the relative performance of the clubs as opposed to the absolute performance. If the monitor was off, then it was off consistently for all of them. I'd hit about 10 shots with each club, photograph the results and then move on. I ran my baseline club at the beginning and the end of the session to monitor the potential impact of fatigue. Once at home, I dumped everything into a spreadsheet, tossed out any egregiously bad shots (though recording the number of shanks with a club) and went based solely on the data.

Here's what I tested: All clubs in regular flex, stock shafts unless otherwise noted. Loft at 10.5 unless otherwise noted. Adjustable drivers set on neutral.- Baseline: Callaway FT-IZ with Fubuki 63 Tour shaft and 11 degrees of loft. When hit on the screws, it was long (for me) and straight. Misses were very punishing -- high and right. This was an IMIX setup and I'd foolishly swapped this shaft into several different heads (FT-IQ, FT-IZ and Diablo Octane) with different lofts (HL, 11.5 and 11) with very similar results.
- Some I tried that were too new or expensive, but were reference points to see if newer really was better: Adams F12, Callaway Razr Hawk, Cobra AMP, Nike VRS, Ping G20, and Tour Edge XCG5. I love the looks of the Cleveland Classic, but didn't want to hit it for fear of falling in love and being smitten. More thoughts on those later.
- The contenders in alphabetical order:

- Adams 9064LS
- Callaway Diablo Octane
- Cobra S3
- Nike Machspeed Black (round)
- Nike Machspeed Black (square)
- Ping G15 with Serrano shaft
- Ping K15
- Tour Edge XCG-V (though I'd have really liked to have tried a XCG4)

The fun part: If you'd care to play along, I'm interested in seeing guesses regarding:
1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle)
2) Longest (carry + roll)
3) What I ultimately bought
4) The second and third place finishers
5) Biggest disappointment
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing

Scrap Iron · May 26, 2012

I want to say 9064 but the low spin ehh i dont think so hmmm. stuck between the s3 and the octane. I think with the tour edge you would always wonder what if.

Wake · May 26, 2012

1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle):S3
2) Longest (carry + roll):G15
3) What I ultimately bought: Octane
4) The second and third place finishers: G15, K15
5) Biggest disappointment: Black Square
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing : 4th

bigputts · May 26, 2012

Callaway or Cobra.

JeffReedMO · May 26, 2012

1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle) - Ping G15
2) Longest (carry + roll) - Cobra S3
3) What I ultimately bought - Ping G15
4) The second and third place finishers - Ping K15 and Adams 9064
5) Biggest disappointment - Callaway Diablo Octane
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing - 4th

DB · May 26, 2012

1. Callaway
2. Ping G15
3. Callaway
4. Ping G15, Nike Match Speed Black
5. Cobra
6. 3rd

TwoSolitudes · May 26, 2012

1) Straightest... I'm gonna go with the K15
2) Longest (carry + roll)....Octane but I bet you were finding the right side quite a bit
3) What I ultimately bought... tough I am temped to say G15, but I will go with K15 here as well.
4) The second and third place finishers, #2 G15, #3 Cobra S3
5) Biggest disappointment....Tour Edge- it's not built for slow SS
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing..tried for #3. the Ft-iZ is a nice driver.

McRock · May 26, 2012

ryebread said:
- Adams 9064LS
- Callaway Diablo Octane
- Cobra S3
- Nike Machspeed Black (round)
- Nike Machspeed Black (square)
- Ping G15 with Serrano shaft
- Ping K15
- Tour Edge XCG-V (though I'd have really liked to have tried a XCG4)

The fun part: If you'd care to play along, I'm interested in seeing guesses regarding:
1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle) PING G15
2) Longest (carry + roll) NIKE SQUARE
3) What I ultimately bought COBRA S3
4) The second and third place finishers 2D IS NIKE ROUND, THIRD IS ADAMS 9064
5) Biggest disappointment PING K15
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing DEAD LAST

A very interesting thread. Now I must KNOW the answers!

~Rock

Zeff · May 26, 2012

1) Straightest... K152) Longest (carry + roll)....G15
3) What I ultimately bought... S3
4) The second and third place finishers....K15, G15
5) Biggest disappointment....Tour Edge
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing... 4th

Rvick82 · May 26, 2012

Ok, I'll play...

1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle) Cobra S3
2) Longest (carry + roll) - Ping G15
3) What I ultimately bought - Ping G15
4) The second and third place finishers - Tour Edge XCG-V, Adams 9064LS
5) Biggest disappointment - Callaway Diablo Octane
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing - 3rd

Neat idea for a thread. Now I'm curious what you decided on?!

ryebread · May 27, 2012

Great guesses so far. I figured that people might have fun with this because we read so many stories about peoples' fitments and it's kind of a chance to see if one can guess at it.

For those who have participated, I'll come back at the end of the day and post the results. Also, I hope to sneak over to the range today and see how it goes in my first hitting session!

ryebread · May 27, 2012

For those who were interested, I'm back to post the results along with some opinions.

Club Rank:

1a) Ping K15: I originally had virtually no interest in this club, probably because I'd not read much about it. On my first session though, I picked it up to hit along with a G15 (which I had high interest in). I hit the K15 a lot better -- with a nice, easy, high, long and straight ball. Second session? Same thing. As a high handicapper, I liked the alignment aid and the tall face also was confidence inspiring. I didn't like much else about the look. On bake off day, I hit 50% fairways, had no shanks and really only sliced one which for me is fantastic. The launch angle and spin were a little higher than I wanted, and I had a hard time swallowing the price, so this wasn't a clear winner.

1b) Nike Machspeed Black Round: I really loved the looks and I felt confident with the shorter shaft. If it'd have had an alignment aid, I'd have given it a perfect ten. This wasn't on my original list due to the Fubuki, but I hit the square and was very pleasantly surprised with the shaft. I hit the round and loved it as the contact feel and sound were both great. I got more yardage with the round than the square and really loved the way it set up behind the ball. Most importantly, the launch angle was exactly where I wanted it and the spin was about 500 rpm lower than almost every other club (other than the square Machspeed Black). The only real negative was that I hit it a bit right (with a neutral setting). The pro was that I hit virtually every one of them straight and most balls within about a 20 yard spread. I think that I could have aimed a bit left and landed 75% of the balls in the fairway given the dispersion. I liked the price and my experience suggests that there is is a solid resale market for Nike gear.

3) Cobra S3: I liked the paint scheme and alignment aid and was pleasantly surprised by the solid feel, sound and shaft. It felt hot on mishits and had good distance in general. I thought the head shape was a little bit weird given they were seemingly going for a traditional look. Shot dispersion was very similar to the Machspeed Black round. The Cobra's head shape and a little worry about resale is what pushed it to third. These are surprisingly good clubs though.

4) Callaway FT-IZ: When hit on the screws, it was as long as anything that I hit. I always loved the feel and sound of this club and the combination of the triangle head, alignment aid and shorter shaft really gave me confidence at address. Mishits really punished me though. Possibly with a lower loft and different shaft, this could have been a better fit and a winner. As someone mentioned, the FT-IZ is a good club.

5) Nike Machspeed Square: I tried this out because I'd had really good luck with a Nike 5900. I never loved the looks, feel and sound of that club, but it was definitely straight. The Machspeed Black square sounded and felt much better than the 5900 but it was possibly even uglier. I loved the shaft, launch angle and what I found to be a low spin. I was rewarded with straight balls that were close to my "fairway." It was the shortest thing I tried. In the end though, the looks made this totally unbuyable.

6) Tour Edge Exotics XCG-V: I had a XCG3 4 wood that I could (for me) crush off of the tee, so I felt pretty confident when I picked this up. My swing always reflected that -- with a long, smooth stroke that really felt fluid when paired with the shaft. Even the older V model was long. The problem though was that I hit it all over the yard. Some went right, some went left, but virtually nothing landed in "the fairway." The XCG4 is supposed to be a bit easier to hit, so I'll keep an eye out for one to see if I can get it on the cheap. I wonder whether Tour Edge in general is just a poor match for my ability level.

7) Ping G15: I had come in thinking that this was what I'd purchase and I was really interested in the Serrano. The results just weren't there for me though. It was mid pack in pretty much everything -- distance, shot dispersion, looks, feel. There was nothing awful about it, but I couldn't point to a single thing it really did that well. To me, this was the most disappointing club against the hype, particularly when price was factored in.

8) Callaway Diablo Octane: I'd had this as an IMIX head and didn't like it as much as the FT-IZ. I really liked the looks and alignment was a breeze. Feel was good and sound is probably the best of any driver I've ever hit. The aesthetic side meant nothing for me though given the consistently poor results. The Octane IMIX didn't really feel any lighter to me than the FT-IZ IMIX and I always hit it higher and shorter. The Octane was actually worse for me with the ProjectX though than it was with my Fubuki. I just repeatedly hit high fade/slices -- big skying balloon balls. The longer shaft gave me less confidence. Bleck.

9) Adams 9064 LS: As much as I like Adams equipment, this club really disappointed me. I never felt confident with the head shape (like I might totally whiff if I were a little high with one on the toe). The sound was absolutely awful. I think I was flinching in negative anticipation and never hit anything in my "fairway." I also found it to be short.

Thoughts on the newer gear: The Adams F12 was my favorite of the new stuff, despite the weird, Starship Enterprise looks. The Razr Hawk was my second favorite, but again I hit high, ballooning shots which I personally seem to find as a disturbing trend with the Callaway composite heads. The Razr Hawk was straight and I felt confident at address. The G20 was unremarkable in every way. The Tour Edge was long, but again all over the map and I missed a lot. The AMP felt like a S3 with a longer shaft. Regardless of club, I was erratic with the longer shafts. I generally prefer and am more accurate with the previous gen stuff. For me, newer isn't better.

Answers to the "game" questions:
1) Straightest (most shots that would land a fairway that is 40 yards wide if I were aiming down the middle): K15. The key though was in the part about aiming down the middle. My shot dispersion was just as tight with the Machspeeds.
2) Longest (carry + roll): On average, this was surprisingly the K15 with the Machspeed round being second. The K15 got more carry, but the Machspeed had more roll. The FT-IZ was just as long as the K15 on well struck balls, but the misses brought the average down.
3) What I ultimately bought: I decided to search for a deal on a K15 and Machspeed Black Round. I ended up finding a like new K15 with a slightly shorter shaft for a good buy, so I pulled the trigger.
4) The second and third place finishers: Machspeed round (1b) followed by the Cobra S3.
5) Biggest disappointment: Ping G15. This was due to expectations not meeting my results. I expected this to finish #1 and it was #7. While the Octane and Adams were worse for performance, I expected far less from them coming in.
6) Where my incumbent FT-IZ landed in the testing: 4th. If it were just more forgiving on off center hits, I'd have searched for a 10 degree head and tried to get fitted for a shaft. The thought crossed my mind on multiple occasions during this process.

Winner of "the game": TwoSolitudes -- Congratulations! You picked the winner, the third place finisher, the longest club and the fact that the Octane went right. I don't want to insult you by comparing your ability to mine, but I'm guessing you might relate to my plight on some level.

First night's results: Incomplete. I went to the range tonight to try out the K15. I was totally psyched out by a woman hitting next to me. She hit the ball better than almost anyone who I'd ever seen that wasn't on the PGA or Nike tour. She could drop balls all over the target flags one after another and had amazing trajectory and length on her driver. I talked to her a bit, and it turns out that she was a former professional. She'd been playing since age 6, played for her college and had played on the LPGA tour. I think I was trying to keep up with her and was swinging way too hard. As soon as she left, I slowed things down and starting hitting much better. Unfortunately, I got chased by lightning about 1/2 way through my bucket and had to depart.

Parting thoughts: I'm still longing for the low ball flight, looks and the ability to adjust the Machspeed Black round. I may try and pick one up in case this K15 doesn't work out. I think the verdict is still out for me on it.

Thanks for all who participated!

ryebread · Jun 10, 2012

In case anyone was curious, I wanted to provide a final update to this thread. I "sourced" a Machspeed Black Round for an outstanding price given it's condition (seemingly hit about a dozen times). I took both the Machspeed Black Round and the K15 to the driving range for a couple of direct comparison sessions.

One thing to remember is that my K15 is cut down a bit. I like shorter shafts, so I am definitely more confident with it, though I'm probably losing a little bit of that added distance. The cut down K15 has a shorter shaft than the Machspeed does.

I tried the Machspeed black round both with a neutral setting and with it closed at the first level (which gave it slightly more lot). I personally found closed to work better.

Overall, the Machspeed when struck well is probably longer than my K15 (due to the shorter staff). The K15 is more accurate for me though and definitely punishes me less on mishits. I can still slice it if I swing too hard, but it's smaller with the K15.

The bottom line is the more I swing with the K15, the more confident I am in the club. The more I swung with the Machspeed Black round, the more erratic I became. The Machspeed Black round leaves the bag tomorrow, which is a shame because it's a pretty club with a fantastic cover.

omega4 · Jun 10, 2012

My results were just the opposite of yours with regards to the Ping G15 and K15.

I found the internal draw bias of the K15 made it too easy to hit draws and tougher to work a fade. While the K15 is certainly a nice club, I found the neutral bias G15 much more to my liking and the perfect blend of forgiveness and workability.

ryebread · Jun 10, 2012

Omega: Thanks for the info. Sady, there's a huge difference between our handicaps so I probably have far more propincity to push one right than you do. The work-ability that you like is like kryptonite for me. I really wanted to like the G15, but it just wasn't a performer for me.

omega4 · Jun 11, 2012

ryebread said:
Omega: Thanks for the info. Sady, there's a huge difference between our handicaps so I probably have far more propincity to push one right than you do. The work-ability that you like is like kryptonite for me. I really wanted to like the G15, but it just wasn't a performer for me.

You're welcome and no worries, Rye. I believe you picked the perfect driver for your game at the moment. As you increase in proficiency over time and learn to work the ball, avoid casting the club on your downswing, etc., be mindful of the internal draw bias weighting of the K15.

By the way, I enjoyed reading your "blog" on testing drivers. You were very methodical in your approach and didn't rely on a simple "gut feel" as you systematically evaluated the drivers.

majBC · Jul 24, 2012

One thing I wanted to mention on the driver search. How much credit do you give to familiarity and experience to the K15 usually winning out over other drivers?
Also you said it is about an inch shorter than standard for the K15 did you have some weight added to the head of the driver or maybe put a much lighter grip on the club? This might give you a boost since you like heavier feeling clubs.

ryebread · Jul 25, 2012

majBC: Good question. I started the search with a FT-IZ. That was the incumbent and was the one I was familiar with. The K15 beat it out despite being a newbie based solely on the numbers. I think I like the K15 for the numbers, despite the fact that I don't really find anything remarkable about its looks, feel, or sound. It just provides solid results. I like a little flash though and miss the sound and feel of the fusion Callaways, so that keeps the door open for other options.

Other than being shortened, nothing else has been done to the K15 to my knowledge. It's got the stock Ping grip and doesn't seem to have any weight, lead tape, etc.. I think the shortened shaft and large deep head keep me confident.

My K15 has fought off a direct challenge from the Machspeed Black Round (1b in my testing) and is now going head to head with a XCG4 (what I didn't get to test but wanted to). We'll see how it does against the XCG4.

ryebread · Aug 17, 2012

I wanted to give a final update on this thread because the XCG4 was in the original discussion. I couldn't find a XCG4 to hit locally before I purchased my K15. I sourced an ultralight 276 gram version with a 46 inch shaft and did a head to head comparison against the K15.

Thoughts?
- Length: XCG4 was probably 15 yards longer than my K15 with shortened shaft. It was without question the longest driver that I hit out of this group.
- Ball flight: I hit a high ball with a driver due to swing flaws. My K15 balloons and kind of falls out of the air (and my Fubuki shafted FT-IZ did as well). The XCG4 for me hit even higher. Interesting though, the decent angle seemed a little flatter so I was getting more run out.
- Accuracy: Every shot I hit with the XCG4 was pretty much a high fade. As a traditional slicer, that's a flight path that scares me a little bit. If I go after it a little too much and that fade can potentially turn into a slice out of bounds. The ball flight with the K15 was straighter for me.
- Looks: I loved the looks of the XCG4. It was a beautiful club with a beautiful cover. The large face was confidence inspiring. People definitely took notice of the club at the range. Visually, this is an extremely attractive package. The white grip got dirty quickly though, despite the fact that I wear two gloves. I don't think I like white grips.
- Feel: The XCG4 has the hardest face of any driver that I have ever hit. It doesn't matter if the hit is good or bad; it just feels like the golf ball might split into two pieces. I really felt like I was just punishing the golf balls. This cuts both ways though. With soft balls, that was a wonderful feeling. With hard balls, it felt like I was hitting rocks. Range balls really felt harsh. Since I play balls I find, I end up hitting a lot of hard ones. Not good.
- Sound: The XCG4 has a cracking sound when the ball hits. It's not overly loud or harsh, but it doesn't sound remotely as good as a Callaway composite (which is a little surprising given the composite crown on the XCG4). The Ping K15 doesn't sound all that great either though. The sounds are seemingly of equal volume, just at different pitches.

At the end of the day, I thought the XCG4 was a really, really good driver. I just struggle with long shafts, and the 46 inch long shaft in the XCG4 was no exception. Good shots were like higher, longer and slightly more exaggerated flight path versions of my typical K15 shots. It makes sense though given a shaft that is two inches longer.

I think this club would have been a very good match up with my K15 if the XCG4 would have had a shorter shaft. I'm not sure which I'd have ultimately chosen, but it'd have been pretty close. I decided just to stick with the K15 which had been working well as opposed to going to the hassle of getting the XCG4 cut down. I think if people are looking at the K15 though at the stock shaft length, they should probably cross shop the XCG4.

I think the biggest thing that I've learned out of this exercise is the importance of shaft length. Shorter shaft = higher % of shots hitting the sweet spot for me = more confidence.