How many strokes?

[Smallville]

I'm just curious. For times sake. If I were to just drop from the spot it went out(say red stakes) and I play out the rest of the hole.

If I just play the hole out. So say my next shot I hit onto the green and two putt, it's a 5 right? Cause how I always do it in my head is after I finish out the hole I jsut add one stroke knowing I had a penalty, or should I be adding two.

In that case, one stroke.

http://golf.about.com/od/rulesofgolf/a/stakesandlines.htm

Red Stakes and Red Lines
Red stakes and lines indicate a lateral water hazard. A lateral water hazard is differentiated from a water hazard by the fact that it is, well, lateral. That is, it runs alongside or adjacent to the line of play, rather than across it.

Picture a typical water hazard, say, a creek that crosses the fairway or a pond in front of the green. If a golfer hits into such a water hazard, it's no problem to take a drop behind the spot where his ball entered the hazard.

A lateral water hazard, however, might be a creek that runs alongside a hole, or a lake to the side of a fairway that extends all the way back to the teeing ground or beyond. Dropping behind such a hazard would not just be inconvenient, it would be unfair. That's why lateral water hazards are handled differently than "normal" water hazards.

And, by the way, different sections of the same body of water on a golf course can be designated a water hazard and a lateral water hazard. Picture a pond that runs alongside the hole, then fingers out into the fairway. That part crossing the fairway - which can easily be dropped behind - would be marked with yellow stakes and lines; that part alongside the hole would be marked with red stakes and lines.

As for dealing with a ball that has entered a lateral water hazard: Golfers have the same option to play from the hazard if they so desire.

More likely, a golfer will assess himself a 1-stroke penalty and take a drop. The drop can be taken within two club-lengths of the point where the ball crossed the margin of the hazard, no nearer the hole. Or a golfer can go to the opposite side of the hazard and drop at a spot on the hazard's margin that is equidistant from the hole. (The option to drop on a line behind the hazard, keeping the point of entry between you and the flag, also exists for lateral water hazards. But that option is rarely used because it is rarely practical or desirable.)

A ball is considered in the hazard when it lies within the hazard or when any part of it touches the hazard (remember, stakes and lines are themselves part of the hazard).

Rules covering lateral water hazards are covered in Rule 26.

 

[El Bandito]

I agree with fourputt. When in doubt, take a provisional....only thing this game gives for free!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[smgoldstein]

Playing a provisional doesn't take that much time. It is the right thing to do.

 

[HighSide]

In casual rounds, "most" golfers play their third from their best guess as to the ball's location. This has got to be the most violated rule in golf.

 

[rollin]

SO......... WHO'S ON FIRST ?? LOL

This stuff can get confusing. I know similar has been discussed before on THP and it always seems (for casual golf or even a fun outing of sorts) most are OK with a drop and a stroke. Also in the past many have indicated feelings that certain rules (and there are many) should be left for the PGA tour vs most of us.

For example, with this specific topic one may say that we dont have the luxury of tv camera's , ball spotters and a hundred other people watching our balls. (not that i want a hundred people watching my "balls", but thats another subject LOL).......With that said, more often then not we would most probably find the ball given those circumstances and then (if playable) be able to chip/pitch out. So in that sense one can sort of justify a drop and stroke to be hittting3 vs hitting 4.

If most us followed all the rules perfectly. I dont even think most golfers (including me) actually know all the rules. Just to play devils advocate, one might say, If we really had to play by the same rules as the big boys then wouldnt we all be teeing off from the tips? If we are allowed to tee off from the whites without penalty, then why is that really any different from drop and stroke if one lost ball in the woods etc.. i dont know, just some thoughts

 

[Smallville]

If most us followed all the rules perfectly. I dont even think most golfers (including me) actually know all the rules. Just to play devils advocate, one might say, If we really had to play by the same rules as the big boys then wouldnt we all be teeing off from the tips? If we are allowed to tee off from the whites without penalty, then why is that really any different from drop and stroke if one lost ball in the woods etc.. i dont know, just some thoughts

We have different tees to tee off from, not to have different rules from.

 

[rollin]

Playing a provisional doesn't take that much time. It is the right thing to do.

Well, I can understand that but I think it depends. When talking high cappers of which I am one. If having a bad day one might hit a provis just as bad or worse than the first one so now there are two balls to look for. that statement may not always be correct.

 

[rollin]

We have different tees to tee off from, not to have different rules from.

I guess thats fair to say and wouldnt necessarily disagree. But can also look at things in different ways. A pro cant tee off from the whites. Why? That must be a rule I guess. Made to accomodate less talented and shorter hitting golfers so maybe its not so different idea or reason vs "stroke and drop" even though one has a penalty and one doesnt.

 

[Smallville]

I guess thats fair to say and wouldnt necessarily disagree. But can also look at things in different ways. A pro cant tee off from the whites. Why? That must be a rule I guess. Made to accomodate less talented and shorter hitting golfers so maybe its not so different idea or reason vs "stroke and drop" even though one has a penalty and one doesnt.

All I know is that I play by the rules to the best of my knowledge. Other than a breakfast ball when I don't have a driving range!

 

[rollin]

yea I try as well to be honest possible. i would hate to think when I ever should possibly beat my lowest by one stroke (hopefully next season) hope that i did it the right way so i can feel it is real.

 

[Fourputt]

If most us followed all the rules perfectly. I dont even think most golfers (including me) actually know all the rules. Just to play devils advocate, one might say, If we really had to play by the same rules as the big boys then wouldnt we all be teeing off from the tips? If we are allowed to tee off from the whites without penalty, then why is that really any different from drop and stroke if one lost ball in the woods etc.. i dont know, just some thoughts

What does the tee set have to do with the Rules of Golf? They are there so that players can chose a "course" which is suited to their ability and length. The length of the course has no bearing on the rules. You are trying to equate apples with zebras - they aren't even the same phylum.

The point is that it doesn't matter what advantages the pros may or may not have, or how long is the course they play. The only thing that the rules are concerned with is that every player in a given competition plays the same course under the same conditions, aside from the obvious one of changes in the weather during the course of a round. The rules apply equally to all in a competition. You could even say that the handicap system is a sort of a competition, which is why a round not played by the rules should never be posted or figured in one's handicap. Taking the drop as you suggest would have the effect of giving you a vanity handicap which you would rarely be able to live up to in a staged competition.

I swear that if more of us took as much time learning the rules as we spend figuring out ways to justify not playing by them, we'd all be playing a more honest game of golf. :confused2:

 

[CharlieMoy]

If it went out at white stakes and I didn't take a provisional, I would drop and hit four. Not three.

Because on a PV you're hitting 3 off the tee, 4th into green. Why should you be hitting 3 into green because you didn't want to hit a provisional? That's shaving strokes in itself.

Red stakes is different of course.




TTing

 

[rollin]

What does the tee set have to do with the Rules of Golf? They are there so that players can chose a "course" which is suited to their ability and length. The length of the course has no bearing on the rules. You are trying to equate apples with zebras - they aren't even the same phylum.

The point is that it doesn't matter what advantages the pros may or may not have, or how long is the course they play. The only thing that the rules are concerned with is that every player in a given competition plays the same course under the same conditions, aside from the obvious one of changes in the weather during the course of a round. The rules apply equally to all in a competition. You could even say that the handicap system is a sort of a competition, which is why a round not played by the rules should never be posted or figured in one's handicap. Taking the drop as you suggest would have the effect of giving you a vanity handicap which you would rarely be able to live up to in a staged competition.

I swear that if more of us took as much time learning the rules as we spend figuring out ways to justify not playing by them, we'd all be playing a more honest game of golf. :confused2:

I'm not to say you are wrong here at all and not looking to justify avoiding rules. I simply just playing friendly debate with some issues and points of views about rules others have discussed, mentioned, thought about in the past on these forums and also on the outside.

To continue, i dont know if it be correct point of view or not and I'm not losing sleep over it nor do i wish to break rules. I would also like to know that if or when (as I stated) I should ever golf a new low score, that i did it correctly. I would only feel good about it If i did it in that way .

But I think one can debate that playing "different shorter course due to ability" (as you sort of put it) can be looked at much like giving one a break on some strokes because they or we dont have that same ability. In other words, no matter how we look at it, the game is being curved or altered. We are in a sense changing the rules. Wether that means a "shorter course vs longer course" or "drop and stroke vs back to the tee" I just dont think someone would be so very wrong to debate that they can both have a similar altered affect on a round played. They both save strokes.

A shorter hitting tour pro doesnt have same ability (as far as legnth) as others who hit longer. I think it ranges about 270 to 310 yrds. Thats 40 yrds difference and is substantial. He is also left with much longer aproach shots. Yet he (the shorter htitter) can not legaly hit from the next set of tee's because that would be altering the game due to his ability. It would be like the rules changed for him. He would have an advantage and would result in fewer strokes for him.

So back to the possible debate one may have. Unlike him, our game is allowed to be altered with distance. That means in a a way we are being allowed to varry from the rules while he cant. Thats why one can make an argument that "stroke and drop" can possibly be viewed much the same way as the altered game most of us play just by being on the middle tee's.

Just a theory and point of view to debate in fun. Not looking for fights nor trying to justify anything. Merely a point of view. If I was in any competiton I would have to be honest with my score because I need to put my head on my pillow with a clear conscience. But thats just me.

 

[Fourputt]

I'm not to say you are wrong here at all and not looking to justify avoiding rules. I simply just playing friendly debate with some issues and points of views about rules others have discussed, mentioned, thought about in the past on these forums and also on the outside.

To continue, i dont know if it be correct point of view or not and I'm not losing sleep over it nor do i wish to break rules. I would also like to know that if or when (as I stated) I should ever golf a new low score, that i did it correctly. I would only feel good about it If i did it in that way .

But I think one can debate that playing "different shorter course due to ability" (as you sort of put it) can be looked at much like giving one a break on some strokes because they or we dont have that same ability. In other words, no matter how we look at it, the game is being curved or altered. We are in a sense changing the rules. Wether that means a "shorter course vs longer course" or "drop and stroke vs back to the tee" I just dont think someone would be so very wrong to debate that they can both have a similar altered affect on a round played. They both save strokes.

A shorter hitting tour pro doesnt have same ability (as far as legnth) as others who hit longer. I think it ranges about 270 to 310 yrds. Thats 40 yrds difference and is substantial. He is also left with much longer aproach shots. Yet he (the shorter htitter) can not legaly hit from the next set of tee's because that would be altering the game due to his ability. It would be like the rules changed for him. He would have an advantage and would result in fewer strokes for him.

So back to the possible debate one may have. Unlike him, our game is allowed to be altered with distance. That means in a a way we are being allowed to varry from the rules while he cant. Thats why one can make an argument that "stroke and drop" can possibly be viewed much the same way as the altered game most of us play just by being on the middle tee's.

Just a theory and point of view to debate in fun. Not looking for fights nor trying to justify anything. Merely a point of view. If I was in any competiton I would have to be honest with my score because I need to put my head on my pillow with a clear conscience. But thats just me.

I'm not trying to bust your chops over it either, just carrying on the discussion from my point of view. I just can't see that course length has anything do with the rules. My mind simply rejects the concept. Applying the rules isn't something which automatically adds strokes to your score. In fact, knowing when and how to apply many of the procedures can save you strokes. I've known players to play very poor shots from places where they would have been entitled to relief had they known the rules. The rules aren't designed to either punish or to reward, they simple describe how to play the game, and they set out the procedures to be followed when your ball comes to rest in a position from which it can't reasonably be played. Some of those procedures allow for relief without penalty (Rule 24 and 25), others relief with penalty (Rule 26), and still others (Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable) don't guarantee any relief at all. Where your ball lies is what determines whether you are rewarded or penalized, and what to do about it.

 

[rollin]

I'm not trying to bust your chops over it either, just carrying on the discussion from my point of view. I just can't see that course length has anything do with the rules. My mind simply rejects the concept. Applying the rules isn't something which automatically adds strokes to your score. In fact, knowing when and how to apply many of the procedures can save you strokes. I've known players to play very poor shots from places where they would have been entitled to relief had they known the rules. The rules aren't designed to either punish or to reward, they simple describe how to play the game, and they set out the procedures to be followed when your ball comes to rest in a position from which it can't reasonably be played. Some of those procedures allow for relief without penalty (Rule 24 and 25), others relief with penalty (Rule 26), and still others (Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable) don't guarantee any relief at all. Where your ball lies is what determines whether you are rewarded or penalized, and what to do about it.

no worries. Understood and well said points. Cant argue and all does make sense.

 

[Smallville]

I'm not trying to bust your chops over it either, just carrying on the discussion from my point of view. I just can't see that course length has anything do with the rules. My mind simply rejects the concept. Applying the rules isn't something which automatically adds strokes to your score. In fact, knowing when and how to apply many of the procedures can save you strokes. I've known players to play very poor shots from places where they would have been entitled to relief had they known the rules. The rules aren't designed to either punish or to reward, they simple describe how to play the game, and they set out the procedures to be followed when your ball comes to rest in a position from which it can't reasonably be played. Some of those procedures allow for relief without penalty (Rule 24 and 25), others relief with penalty (Rule 26), and still others (Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable) don't guarantee any relief at all. Where your ball lies is what determines whether you are rewarded or penalized, and what to do about it.

This is so much the truth. Watch the finale of Big Break Greenbrier. I am going to be vague because of spoilers, but someone hit into the water and because it was lateral and where he crossed the margin of the hazard he was able to drop on the hole side of the water, the same distance from the hole as he would have been had he dropped on the other side.

Rule 26-1(c)

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

Also in rule 26-1, (a), (b) and (c): When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

 

[Texas Hacker]

Concerning distance of courses the pros play each hole the same distance and no handicap strokes are taken or given. Everyone playing at this level is assumed to have the potential to play well enough on their on merit to win with a level playing field.

The rest of us have handicaps and their are ratings for each tee and course to adjust difficulty to make the handicap system fair so higher level handicappers can compete with lower level handicappers. That's my understanding of the theory. Unfortunately it also seems that the handicap system is still broken due to people falsely inflating there handicap. At least that's my take on it.

Now to be straight about it I usually play golf for the first six or seven holes then play flog. When playing flog I don't keep score as I am no longer playing by the rules. This is usually after two or three holes of double boggey or worse. And no I do not have an official handicap nor do I play in completion or gamble.