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Rules question

the boss said:
I understand you get a one stroke penalty but it's not unplayable just because you cant hit out of rough doesn't make it unplayable, if there was a tree or something in the way fair enough but just because your in the rough???
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I've taken an unplayable in rough before.

Now it wasn't the standard just off the fairway rough it was the really thick and deep stuff. Also on the side of the hill and at knee height for my stance.

I knew I'd never be able to hit it and even if I did I'd have a worse result than taking a drop so I declared it unplayable. Seemed fair to me
 
the boss said:
I understand you get a one stroke penalty but it's not unplayable just because you cant hit out of rough doesn't make it unplayable, if there was a tree or something in the way fair enough but just because your in the rough???
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There's rough......



And then there's rough:

Staninrough2.jpg
 
blugold said:
Sure. If it's buried far enough down. Or you just don't want to hurt your wrists. Plenty of reasons, I don't know why you would, but you could. Once this year, I took three unplayables in the same bunker in one round. I was AWFUL.
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I had a lie today that if playing in a tournament I would have deemed unplayable and taken a penalty drop. I was just in front of a huge root, and even if I had of hit it backwards I gave it 50/50 chance that I would have hit the root and not gotten out of the trees. I could have 100% hit the ball, but the odds of getting out of the trees were very slim. I ended up just hitting it anyway b/c it was a fun practice round, and miraculalously it hit the root, bounced dead right, hit a tree, then bounced dead left and went centre of the fairway. I then got up and down for bogey lol. Never would have tried it in a competitive round; I would have declared unplayable, moved back a bit, and tried to punch it forward.
 
Bunkers are different - slightly. The only way out for "free" is stroke and distance.

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.


If there is standing water in a bunker you can take relief for casual water - in the bunker. If the whole thing is full of water you can put the ball where it is shallowest. However under 25-1 you can under penalty of one stoke proceed almost like a water hazard and remove the ball, keeping the point where it lay between you and the hole.
 
Thanks for the rules post Tedfroop. You can take an unplayable at any point in a round as long as you follow the rules when making the drop. I've had bad lies in deep rough where I considered taking an unplayable but the drop would have put me in a worse spot. It all depends on the situation.
 
Interesting situation today...

I hit a ball into a mound of fire ants. Playing it as it lies would have led to me spraying them all over probably including onto myself. Picking up the ball would have led to multiple bites as well. All I could do was pull it out with my club and take the stroke. Is there a rule that covers this kind of situation?

My Bag:
Driver : Nike VRS Covert Tour (Aldila Phemom)
3w : Nike VRS Covert Tour
3h : Nike VRS Covert Tour
Irons (4i-PW) : Nike VRS Forged
Wedges : Nike VR Pro (52,56,60)
Putter : Odessy White Hot #7
 
JBJGolf said:
Interesting situation today...

I hit a ball into a mound of fire ants. Playing it as it lies would have led to me spraying them all over probably including onto myself. Picking up the ball would have led to multiple bites as well. All I could do was pull it out with my club and take the stroke. Is there a rule that covers this kind of situation?
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If you have already decided to take relief, you don't have to actually lift the ball while it's still in the danger area (in fact, this is one case where you are allowed to substitute a ball if it is unsafe to try and recover the original ball). You are, however required to take a proper drop, so once you raked it out of the anthill, you should have picked it up, established your drop area from the nearest point of relief, then dropped the ball.
 
JBJGolf said:
Does the anthill still require the stroke penalty?
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No. If the condition is dangerous to the the player the relief is without penalty.
 
I guess fire ants may or may not be considered dangerous depending on who you play with. However to me. I'm not interested in hundreds of bites. I've been there and done that. Anyway the course I played had fire ant hills out numbering the pitch marks near the greens. It was brutal. Tee boxes also had severe mounds.

My Bag:
Driver : Nike VRS Covert Tour (Aldila Phemom)
3w : Nike VRS Covert Tour
3h : Nike VRS Covert Tour
Irons (4i-PW) : Nike VRS Forged
Wedges : Nike VR Pro (52,56,60)
Putter : Odessy White Hot #7
 
Jeanthemachine said:
The club may declare a local rule allowing free relief from fire ants but such a rule is not required.
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I think you're saying the same thing, but just to be clear: the player is entitled to free relief whether or not the club declares a local rule. See Decision 33-8/22.
 
JBJGolf said:
I guess fire ants may or may not be considered dangerous depending on who you play with. However to me. I'm not interested in hundreds of bites. I've been there and done that. Anyway the course I played had fire ant hills out numbering the pitch marks near the greens. It was brutal. Tee boxes also had severe mounds.
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Fortunately, it's not up to them. It's up to you.
 
I did find clarification. The local course rule is that free relief can be taken from fire ant hills.
 
Fourputt said:
No. If the condition is dangerous to the the player the relief is without penalty.
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Absolutely. Just to clarify what a dangerous condition is, decision 1-4/11 spells it out.
[h=2]1-4/11[/h][h=4]Meaning of "Dangerous Situation"[/h]Q.According to Decision 1-4/10, a ball lying near a live rattlesnake or a bees' nest is a "dangerous situation" and relief should be granted in equity.
If a player's ball comes to rest in or near an area of plants such as poison ivy, cacti or stinging nettles, should the provisions of Decision 1-4/10 apply?


A.No. The player must either play the ball as it lies or, if applicable, proceed under Rule 26 (Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).

Decision 1-4/10 contemplates a situation which is unrelated to conditions normally encountered on the course. Unpleasant lies are a common occurrence which players must accept.
 
Tedfroop said:
Absolutely. Just to clarify what a dangerous condition is, decision 1-4/11 spells it out.
1-4/11

Meaning of "Dangerous Situation"

Q.According to Decision 1-4/10, a ball lying near a live rattlesnake or a bees' nest is a "dangerous situation" and relief should be granted in equity.
If a player's ball comes to rest in or near an area of plants such as poison ivy, cacti or stinging nettles, should the provisions of Decision 1-4/10 apply?


A.No. The player must either play the ball as it lies or, if applicable, proceed under Rule 26 (Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).

Decision 1-4/10 contemplates a situation which is unrelated to conditions normally encountered on the course. Unpleasant lies are a common occurrence which players must accept.
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But what if the person is allergic to ant bites? That would be dangerous for them but only unpleasant for their opponents that aren't allergic. I wonder what the ruling would be in that case? I think fire ants should be considered dangerous to anyone as opposed to other types of ants. And I believe anyone who has ever had a bad poison ivy reaction would tell you it can be more than just unpleasant.
 
Kobey said:
But what if the person is allergic to ant bites? That would be dangerous for them but only unpleasant for their opponents that aren't allergic. I wonder what the ruling would be in that case? I think fire ants should be considered dangerous to anyone as opposed to other types of ants. And I believe anyone who has ever had a bad poison ivy reaction would tell you it can be more than just unpleasant.
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I think the decisions are pretty clear that fire ants would be considered dangerous.

As for poison ivy and the like, I suspect the issue is that such plants can occur in so many places around a course, it would be impractical to say that you get relief whenever you see poison oak, poison ivy, poison sumac or any of a dozen other unpleasant plants. Additionally, you'd have have the problem of identifying the plants. Most people think any vine is poison ivy. Can you imagine the craziness as golfers argue whether a plant is poison oak or not? I think those are just a few of the reasons they decided that if you don't like the vegetation, you can just invoke an unplayable and play from the last spot.
 
wadesworld said:
I think the decisions are pretty clear that fire ants would be considered dangerous.

As for poison ivy and the like, I suspect the issue is that such plants can occur in so many places around a course, it would be impractical to say that you get relief whenever you see poison oak, poison ivy, poison sumac or any of a dozen other unpleasant plants. Additionally, you'd have have the problem of identifying the plants. Most people think any vine is poison ivy. Can you imagine the craziness as golfers argue whether a plant is poison oak or not? I think those are just a few of the reasons they decided that if you don't like the vegetation, you can just invoke an unplayable and play from the last spot.
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Exactly. The tenant that holds the whole rules of golf together is "play it as it lies". If you don't like where it lies, then call it unplayable. Otherwise I think you found the clue at the end "Unpleasant lies are a common occurrence which players must accept."

Free relief is exactly that, relief from the situation that is unfair to have to play your ball from.

Relief with penalty is a get out of jail for one stroke thing where you don't have to play it from there, you can add a stroke and play from another place. Water hazards are a good example as is an unplayable lie.

As for the fire ants wouldn't you want to call them ground under repair in a local rule? That allows you to substitute a ball for one lost or not readily retrievable in an ant hill and allows relief from the ant hill itself.
 
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In one of the GSGA tournaments I played in, it was stressed that we got free relief from fire ant mounds.

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