GPS vs Range Finder

[Fourputt]

Why does a GPS give layup yardages? I'm sorry but you should be able to subtract 100, 150 or 200 from your yardage. I hate it because on mine, if you scroll past the screen with the layup yardages, it will go back to that screen until you get past where they would apply.

Does it really take you that long to get past that point? (j/k) One shot is usually all I need, then I'm past that point anyway so it can do what it wants until I get to my ball.

The layup yardages are essential in my opinion because you don't always have a shot straight down the center of the fairway, and that seems to be where the layup waypoints are programmed to. When I'm coming from the tee side of a dogleg or out of the woods or from the wrong fairway (don't ask :confused2, just figuring the total minus 100 (or 80 or whatever your wedge distance is) isn't going to do the job. Try it some time and you'll see. You also can't use those numbers and shoot straight at the green, since the waypoint is in the center of the fairway 100 yards from the center of the green. You have to aim more at where you think the waypoint should be.

Just another example of a GPS not being a substitute for using your noggin.

 

[bogey_russ]

The Upro is a great unit, but you may want to think about a couple of issues. First, check out their website and be sure the courses you want are mapped. In my home area I am in good shape, but I have occasion to travel to rural New England and in VT and NH, even some very nice course were NOT mapped last summer. The other item is that to get the Pro Mode, it is now $8 per course.

Based on what JB is saying and the pricing I am reading in this topic, I would sure advise you to check out the Bushnell unit he suggested. I don't think you can make a bad decision with the Upro, but perhaps you can make a better and more cost-effective one with the Bushnell.

my brother has the upro and every course we've played has been on there... i recently went into golf galaxy and checked out the upro go... its $100 bucks cheaper but id rather get the regular upro... i think if the prices go down on laser rangefinders... id love to get one of those

 

[pjcedog]

If you play the same course all the time get the lowest cost GPS and download the course or just map it yourself. If I played a lot of different golf courses or if I travelled a lot and played resort golf I would definitely go with the laser rangefinder instead of the gps. Players who travel outside the US to play will also want the laser rangefinder.

 

[hkphooey00]

I'll be trying Freecaddie (http://freecaddie.com)on my phone next week. The free version shows yardage to front, middle, and back of green. The Pro version includes hazards, shot distance, and stats. I'll be trying the free version to see if it's worth getting the pro version.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

Under ideal conditions you won't see much difference. But... there are several variables that can come into play which affect GPS accuracy, most notably is the number of satellites that are being received at a given moment. The max possible is 12, but it's not unusually for there to be only 6-8 at one time, and the fewer satellites in view of the unit, the poorer is the triangulation. At an absolute minimum there must be 3 or you cant get any position at all.

If you examine the true accuracy data for consumer GPS, it is a time or percentage weighted number, meaning that the unit is accurate to x distance for y percent of the time. Most units are marketed at +/- 3 yards, but all that means is that they have to be that accurate at least 51% of the time.

I don't know if any of you have ever tried Geocaching, but you find out in that hobby that there is an inevitable error in GPS location. A person can hide a cache, mark it's coordinates precisely with their GPS, publish those coordiantes, but when another participant tries to find the cache with his GPS, it can easily be off by 50 feet or more. The reason is that the cache owner may have received an error of 20 or 25 feet when he hid the cache, then the searcher has a similar variance in the opposite direction, resulting in a rather large total error.

The same thing happens with Golf GPS... the technology is virtually the same. Most of the time they will be within that advertised +/-3 yards, but occasionally they will be off... and it isn't always easy to tell when you come up wrong on a shot if it's the GPS or the shot execution that's at fault. So use it with that slight grain of salt and you will probably be mostly happy with the performance of your GPS. Contrary to Prov's assessment, you will still be more accurate than just eyeballing it, even if you are a low handicapper.

I just stumbled onto this thread and haven't read any posts after the one I am quoting. But FourPutt is exactly right. I got a GPS device a few years ago. Being an engineer I was interested in just how accurate it was. I had noticed that there were occasions that it would be WAY off. One occasion was marked in my mind ...

I have a 'shag ball area' that i use often and the is a small/sparse pine tree 'just sitting there' that i often use as I target, so I 'marked it' with my GPS. Something was badly wrong, I could tell. So by 'circling' the target I could easily observe that the point that I had 'marked' with the unit was roughly 12 yards to the SW of the tree.

So I did an experiment where I 'marked' four places (with not much tree interference) around my front yard (NO tree interference). I had no idea what the distances were, other than they were all 100-200 yards from my front yard (4 of them). So I picked a spot in my front yard and recorded measurements (3-4 times per day over a 10 day period) to these four (now fixed, wherever they were) points around my neighborhood (from a fixed point in my front yard).

I came to the conclusion that GPS is accurate to typically about 5 yards (assuming 100% accurate 'target points') - or it could be worse as all I was measuring was the ability of the unit to give the same answer to the same question every time (repeatability). And it is interesting that every once in a while (and you have no idea when this will happen) it will be 10+ yards off. It doesn't happen often but it happens.

I became a laser guy because what I was MOST interested in was very accurate yardages TO THE PIN from inside 100 yards. GPS is a very poor tool for this. From my perspective the +-5 yards thing was 'marginally OK' and the EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE way off problem was irritating but not a show-stopper.

OTOH, if I am 180 yards from the center of the green I would rather know yardages front/center/rear than yardage to the pin, obviously favoring GPS technology. But accurate and 'to the pin' yardage from inside 100 is my #1 requirement - so it is laser for me.

dave

 

[JB]

I came to the conclusion that GPS is accurate to typically about 5 yards (assuming 100% accurate 'target points') - or it could be worse as all I was measuring was the ability of the unit to give the same answer to the same question every time (repeatability). And it is interesting that every once in a while (and you have no idea when this will happen) it will be 10+ yards off. It doesn't happen often but it happens.

dave

I use both and love both quite a bit. But I have to say in all of our GPS testing we compare distances with a Bushnell Rangefinder and we never see anything like this. They are always within 1-3 yards and I have only seen 5 yards 1-2 times in all the reviews we have done.

Accuracy is king, but many of these devices have cursors to drop anywhere you want on the green and when we do that despite what so many have said, they are normally the exact same distance we are getting with our Rangefinder.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

I use both and love both quite a bit. But I have to say in all of our GPS testing we compare distances with a Bushnell Rangefinder and we never see anything like this. They are always within 1-3 yards and I have only seen 5 yards 1-2 times in all the reviews we have done.

Accuracy is king, but many of these devices have cursors to drop anywhere you want on the green and when we do that despite what so many have said, they are normally the exact same distance we are getting with our Rangefinder.

I assume that when you do this you are 'marking' a target with your GPS and then comparing distances with a laser device. I don't know how else it could be accomplished.

There is one other interesting factor here which is the WAAS corrections. I believe that really good GPS readings (and the +-3 yard accuracy statements that you read are to a 50% confidence level) are dependent on WAAS compensations. Here is southern NC we are around 400 miles from the nearest WAAS station. That might well be a factor. Or it might be simply that I was testing 2007 GPS technology.

Based on discussions that I had with the iGolf technical folks (and my own experience), GPS from 60 yards and in is pretty crummy.

dave

ps. There are a couple guys that I play with that started out with GPS and went to laser simply because "it was occasionally screwey". They didn't do any analysis, but that was there impression. So maybe it is a regional thing.

 

[JB]

I assume that when you do this you are 'marking' a target with your GPS and then comparing distances with a laser device. I don't know how else it could be accomplished.

dave

We do it 3 ways.

Mark targets with GPS and then compare with laser
Mark Targets with laser and then compare with GPS.
Use flagsticks on multiple courses with both.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

We do it 3 ways.

Mark targets with GPS and then compare with laser
Mark Targets with laser and then compare with GPS.
Use flagsticks on multiple courses with both.

FWIW, that methodology (as stated) doesn't generate particularly 'representative' results. Assuming that you use the 'mark this point' function in the GPS, then all of the errors inherent in WAAS, current atmospheric conditions, satellite position, etc apply to that marking. And if you (pretty soon) go take a measurement it will have those identical errors and things will look pretty darn good.

If you 'mark today' and measure tomorrow you might get very different results - and even more different if you take a bunch of measurements (say 50 to 100) being careful to be sure that there are a couple of hours between each measurement. I can guarantee you that when you do that with the two devices that I have used, errors greater than 3 yards will not be unusual. But maybe with other devices or maybe in a different region of the country it is different. I kind of doubt it, but that is just a reasonable speculation on my part.

dave

 

[JB]

While all of that may be true, the fact is that when using them on the course side by side with the rangefinder they come out to the same measurement. We review GPS units each and every day as well as rangefinders. I like both and use both, but while everybody constantly talks about the accuracy, we just do not see the issues. 1 yard here and there, 2 sometimes, but I never never seen 5. Not with the cursor. Maybe just measuring front center and back.

 

[DaveLeeNC]

While all of that may be true, the fact is that when using them on the course side by side with the rangefinder they come out to the same measurement. We review GPS units each and every day as well as rangefinders. I like both and use both, but while everybody constantly talks about the accuracy, we just do not see the issues. 1 yard here and there, 2 sometimes, but I never never seen 5. Not with the cursor. Maybe just measuring front center and back.

FWIW, if you 'mark' and 'measure' at roughly the same time the devices (2 of them) that I used would also measure to 2-3 yards or better. They weren't that good when you retained the 'marks' but changed the 'measurement' to different days/conditions.

dave

 

[Fourputt]

While all of that may be true, the fact is that when using them on the course side by side with the rangefinder they come out to the same measurement. We review GPS units each and every day as well as rangefinders. I like both and use both, but while everybody constantly talks about the accuracy, we just do not see the issues. 1 yard here and there, 2 sometimes, but I never never seen 5. Not with the cursor. Maybe just measuring front center and back.

Just a quick note, I've seen a simultaneous 5 yard error between 2 different SkyCaddies on the same hole to the same target. :confused2:

The only point about GPS vs laser is that with the GPS, accuracy is dependent on more factors than just the unit in your hands. The number of satellites in the sky at any one time, the clarity of the straight line path to any of those satellites (trees, hills, buildings, etc. in the way), and the accuracy of the program file itself. With the laser you limit most errors to user mistakes or damage to the unit. User error can easily be eliminated with practice. Damage can happen to either type of device and cause all sorts of erratic behavior.

Even though I use both, if I have any question or discrepancy, the laser is the one I trust.

 

[JB]

the clarity of the straight line path to any of those satellites (trees, hills, buildings, etc. in the way), and the accuracy of the program file itself.

Those same issues minus the satellite are involved with the rangefinder. Trees, hills, doglegs, all cause issues. You only can measure a straight line.

I also have had issues with my Skycaddie. But it is well documented on this forum my thoughts on their units compared to others. Lots of tech movement in GPS over the last 2 years.

There is no way to determine which one is better. It is up to the user. Like I said, I use both. But I like the GPS for measuring to certain things on the course. I know everybody says that its easier with the rangefinder because you point and shoot. But getting distances to edges of flat surfaces like sandtraps is a pain in the neck when they are 220 yards out.

 

[pjcedog]

I use both and love both quite a bit. But I have to say in all of our GPS testing we compare distances with a Bushnell Rangefinder and we never see anything like this. They are always within 1-3 yards and I have only seen 5 yards 1-2 times in all the reviews we have done.

Accuracy is king, but many of these devices have cursors to drop anywhere you want on the green and when we do that despite what so many have said, they are normally the exact same distance we are getting with our Rangefinder.

I agree that GPS can be very accurate, more than adequate for most amateur golfers to benefit from using it. When a player's distance on shots with the same club will vary by several yards from one swing to the next because of miss-hits or fats or thins, bad tempo, whatever, then I don't see how more accuracy than to within 1-3 or even 3-5 yards is going to help them very much. I use my GPS mainly for yardage to the front edge of the green and then hit what I know will get me over the front but still short of the back of the green even if I flush it. I have been hitting many more greens that way than by using the center yardage as the starting point. I have been putting off buying a laser rangefinder because I didn't feel like my game would really benefit much. Until I am able to hit both distance and direction more consistently than I have been I don't see how it would help me very much to know a more precise yardage. In fact it might cause me to tighten up and try to hit the ball perfectly and bad things can happen when you do that. For me it is better to know the approximate yardage and know what club I need to hit to clear that and to clear any hazards at the front of the green and then just put a smooth swing on it.

 

[jefffann]

I don't have a gps or rangefinder but a course I play has gps on the carts and I love it.For me it helps immensely but I'm too cheap to buy one although I've almost pulled the trigger.

 

[Smallville]

I don't have a gps or rangefinder but a course I play has gps on the carts and I love it.For me it helps immensely but I'm too cheap to buy one although I've almost pulled the trigger.

Which course is that Jeff? GPS on the carts work fine until it's cart path only, which is nice about a personal one. (I would guess. The only course I played with GPS on the cart is Tiffany Greens and that was about 7 or 8 years ago.)

 

[MO_Hacker]

I need to buy a gps but like Jeff, I'm too cheap. At Adams Pointe they have it on the carts and it is pretty sweet, if I could hit my clubs consistently it would be even better. Strangely enough the best round I played there last year the gps on my cart wasn't working and the only readings I was able to get were from my opponents carts. I think they were trying to screw with me a few times and give me bad yardages, like I said I'm inconsistent though so the joke was on them.

 

[pjcedog]

I need to buy a gps but like Jeff, I'm too cheap. At Adams Pointe they have it on the carts and it is pretty sweet, if I could hit my clubs consistently it would be even better. Strangely enough the best round I played there last year the gps on my cart wasn't working and the only readings I was able to get were from my opponents carts. I think they were trying to screw with me a few times and give me bad yardages, like I said I'm inconsistent though so the joke was on them.

You can buy a Neo from a GPS retailer that is not a golf shop, it is less expensive that way. I bought one for less than $100. You don't get a full color display with this unit but it works well and I have found it to as accurate as the other more expensive units used by some of my playing partners.

 

[JB]

Due keep in mind that the Neo does not give any other distances other than green distances. It will not give you yardages to hazards or anything like that if you are looking for those features.


Our review of the unit is on the home page.

 

[calebt17]

I received a Bushnell Yardage Pro XGC GPS for Christmas. I absolutely love it. I have used it a couple times. Here are my thoughts.

The software installation was easy. Although, I did use their online tech support 
because I was having trouble seeing the file to sync to the unit on my Mac OSX. They told me to download the updated mac software from the website. Also, he said I should use Firefox instead of Safari to download the course files because Safari messes them up for some reason. Customer support with igolf is fantastic.

I purchased for $35.00 a year subscription, which allows for 100 course downloads. There’s no way I could play that many courses in a year but the fact that I could is pretty sweet. From what I understand even if your year membership ends, you can still use the courses you downloaded with no additional charge. I got everything uploaded to the unit and personal information added. I took to the course.

I selected the tees I was playing and I was ready to go. I’m a fairly technical person, so of course, I didn’t read the instructions on how to use the unit (No offense to technical people who read directions). It couldn’t be easier to use. The first screen you see is how far away you are from the hole; front, middle, and back. It will give distances to the hazards. I did notice that it didn’t have all the yardages loaded to the fairway
bunkers on a few holes. I know you can customize that. The other option allows for you to see a map of the hole, which is great because there are doglegs and blind shots that you can’t see how far from the pin you are. You can move the cursor to the trouble to find out how far away it is.

You can scroll through the different holes on the course to see what lies ahead. It allows you to enter your score on each hole including number of putts. At the end of your round, it will track your over/under par, putts, eagles, birdies, pars, bogeys, and doubles. It was very sunny on the days I went and it wasn’t hard to read. However, I did read it when I was in the cart or standing over the ball. It comes with a pouch and a belt clip.

The yardage accuracy was very solid, both to the green and distance of how far you hit the ball. It was near a few yardage markers and it was on the money. There were a couple holes on one of the courses that the par was in correct because they had some renovations done. It messed with the score at the end of the round, however you can map the hole correctly but I didn’t utilize that feature because I was unsure how to do it. I know it’s simple if you read the directions.

The other cool features, while you are waiting you can check golf equipment reviews, golf news that is updated on the unit. The size of the unit and buttons are just right. It fits in your hand or a pocket easily. The battery was fantastic. I played one round with it and only used 20 percent of the battery. The unit comes with an AC adapter and USB for the software.

Thanks to JB for recommending this device. I am more than pleased with this product. It is a wonderful addition to my golf game. It was worth the investment and I will enjoy it for years to come. The other guys in my group raved about the accuracy and how it sped up play.

For more info check out, Bushnell Golf - Yardage Pro XGC

 

[JB]

Our review of it echos your thoughts exactly. It is simply the best device I have used so far in this category.

 

[calebt17]

There is nothing bad to say about it. It's unreal what it can do. Thanks again.

 

[Smallville]

I selected the tees I was playing and I was ready to go.

This is the only thing I don't get. It's a GPS. You had to tell it what tees you were playing? :confused2: What if for some reason the tees were moved up and shared with a forward tee box? Or backward?

 

[JB]

It asks because it keeps score also and some courses have different pars for different sets of tees.

 

[Smallville]

OK, duh! Makes sense now. Thanks.