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Wedge Bounce - Is there a right answer?

ddelloch

ddelloch

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Hi all,

Hoping for some opinions from people who have a better grasp than me (I am assuming that is most people)

I understand wedge bounce, I know what it is and I know what it is for. I really didn't get the concept too much when I bought my first real wedges. I have a medium bounce sand wedge and a high bounce 60 at the moment. I was thinking about upgrading this year but I feel like I want to be more informed this time around.

Right now I use both wedges all over the place. Sand/Chipping/Pitching/rough/fairway. Depending on the distance and the target I can use either in either situation. So my question is, with those being the facts, should I just be getting them both as medium bounce? I have no problems skulling the ball with either club and generally if I dig in on a sand shot it was a swing mechanic issue, not the club. Would there be any advantage one way or another?
 
would you call yourself a digger or a sweeper? Oh and do you play in firm or soft conditions?
 
How big of a divot do you take? What kind of conditions do you normally play in? Wet/Soft or Dry/Hard?
 
If you pick the ball clean without a divot or play on harder/dryer grass, I'd suggest lower bounce. A higher bounce should help you get into the ground a little easier. That's the idea from what I understand. I consider myself a digger but I like standard bounce on my clubs to keep from digging to China.
 
sparksjr said:
would you call yourself a digger or a sweeper? Oh and do you play in firm or soft conditions?
Click to expand...

I generally take a fairly shallow divot or none at all. I play 1/2 my rounds at home in soft conditions and 1/2 on the road in firm conditions. It is a real mix.
 
Typically with a 60deg wedge, you would want to maintain a higher bounce where it is generally a go to green side bunker club and bounce is always a good thing in that case. It gets a little trickier when it comes to lower lofted wedges. Like others have mentioned it is pretty dependent on the type of ball striker you are, coupled with the turf conditions you intend to play that club from a majority of the time.
 
Sounds like you're a picker, and pickers generally have less problems with bounce than diggers because they experience less turf interaction across the board. I'm a digger and I have to watch it closely. Digging on soft wet turf can spell disaster. More bounce can help level out we diggers.

Sounds also like you use your wedges in a variety of ways. Why haven't you tried the Rbladez wedges that go with your irons or the ATV wedges? They're wonderful for a variety of uses. Or get those new Tour Preferred wedges with the ATV grind. I'll bet you will love them. I've tried the ATV, SB and RB wedges all with ATV grind and love them. All are quite similar in their behavior. Right now I'm playing a SB 50, 55 and 60. I can get away with just about every greenside shot I want with the 55.
 
mark blanchard said:
Sounds like you're a picker, and pickers generally have less problems with bounce than diggers because they experience less turf interaction across the board. I'm a digger and I have to watch it closely. Digging on soft wet turf can spell disaster. More bounce can help level out we diggers.

Sounds also like you use your wedges in a variety of ways. Why haven't you tried the Rbladez wedges that go with your irons or the ATV wedges? They're wonderful for a variety of uses. Or get those new Tour Preferred wedges with the ATV grind. I'll bet you will love them. I've tried the ATV, SB and RB wedges all with ATV grind and love them. All are quite similar in their behavior. Right now I'm playing a SB 50, 55 and 60. I can get away with just about every greenside shot I want with the 55.
Click to expand...

I have generally been happy with my old Vokeys but the grooves are getting worn down and beat up. I will be sure to give the ones you mentioned a try. Wedges are a bit tricky though because demoing them in a sim at golf town isn't really comparable to hitting them off of turf. I noticed a price drop on the Cleveland 588's and was thinking about trying those ones out as well.

I am usually a pretty straight forward shopper but I started browsing all the bounce options on top of everything else and decided I had better take a step back and get some more info.
 
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ddelloch said:
I have generally been happy with my old Vokeys but the grooves are getting worn down and beat up. I will be sure to give the ones you mentioned a try. Wedges are a bit tricky though because demoing them in a sim at golf town isn't really comparable to hitting them off of turf. I noticed a price drop on the Cleveland 588's and was thinking about trying those ones out as well.

I am usually a pretty straight forward shopper but I started browsing all the bounce options on top of everything else and decided I had better take a step back and get some more info.
Click to expand...

I would make sure to get a conforming wedge with the good micro-etched faces. The Cleveland RTXs are fine, Nike's have good etching, as do Titleist and TM. Hell, they all have the micro etching these days. Your Vokeys are like precision scalpels made for specific jobs, for which they EXCEL. But make 'em do another job and they can do it, but you will need more surgical skill to pull it off. The ATV's are like a Swiss Army knife. I have to hit a bunch of wedge shots and I don't want 6 wedges so I prefer the Swiss Army Knife.

But with a wedge its all about feel. Hitting them in a bay off a mat will tell you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Try finding one you can borrow to test.
 
mark blanchard said:
I would make sure to get a conforming wedge with the good micro-etched faces. The Cleveland RTXs are fine, Nike's have good etching, as do Titleist and TM. Hell, they all have the micro etching these days. Your Vokeys are like precision scalpels made for specific jobs, for which they EXCEL. But make 'em do another job and they can do it, but you will need more surgical skill to pull it off. The ATV's are like a Swiss Army knife. I have to hit a bunch of wedge shots and I don't want 6 wedges so I prefer the Swiss Army Knife.

But with a wedge its all about feel. Hitting them in a bay off a mat will tell you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Try finding one you can borrow to test.
Click to expand...

Can I ask why? No reason to use conforming grooves unless you're trying to qualify for the US Open. Plus, that micro etching really does nothing but look great. The etching doesn't improve performance
 
blugold said:
Can I ask why? No reason to use conforming grooves unless you're trying to qualify for the US Open. Plus, that micro etching really does nothing but look great. The etching doesn't improve performance
Click to expand...

I disagree, it improves backspin. More friction on the surface of a club will impart more backspin. Try one of those diamond faced wedges that are like 80 grit sandpaper and see. Those suckers zip. They also tear covers off of balls.

The reason most manufacturers put it on the etching these days is to compensate for the loss of backspin that the new groove patterns have forfeited. You can tell that it imparts grip when it wears off over time and your wedges start to lose the zip they once had. Same goes for your old Vokeys when their grooves get pounded round and worn away.

Agreed, you don't have to be anal about CoC wedges cause none of us is going to play in the Open or Am qualifiers, but when you shop for a new wedge (post 2010) they'll all be conforming anyway. All your new choices conform. Sure, you could go shop for a 1988 Ping Copper square groove wedge if you wanted, but odds are it's grooves are pounded round too.
 
mark blanchard said:
I disagree, it improves backspin. More friction on the surface of a club will impart more backspin. Try one of those diamond faced wedges that are like 80 grit sandpaper and see. Those suckers zip. They also tear covers off of balls.

The reason most manufacturers put it on the etching these days is to compensate for the loss of backspin that the new groove patterns have forfeited. You can tell that it imparts grip when it wears off over time and your wedges start to lose the zip they once had. Same goes for your old Vokeys when their grooves get pounded round and worn away.

Agreed, you don't have to be anal about CoC wedges cause none of us is going to play in the Open or Am qualifiers, but when you shop for a new wedge (post 2010) they'll all be conforming anyway. All your new choices conform. Sure, you could go shop for a 1988 Ping Copper square groove wedge if you wanted, but odds are it's grooves are pounded round too.
Click to expand...

There are many smarter people than me on the forum. Hopefully they correct me. But my understanding is that those surface textures do not actually add spin.
 
mark blanchard said:
I would make sure to get a conforming wedge with the good micro-etched faces. The Cleveland RTXs are fine, Nike's have good etching, as do Titleist and TM. Hell, they all have the micro etching these days. Your Vokeys are like precision scalpels made for specific jobs, for which they EXCEL. But make 'em do another job and they can do it, but you will need more surgical skill to pull it off. The ATV's are like a Swiss Army knife. I have to hit a bunch of wedge shots and I don't want 6 wedges so I prefer the Swiss Army Knife.

But with a wedge its all about feel. Hitting them in a bay off a mat will tell you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Try finding one you can borrow to test.
Click to expand...

What is it about the ATV's you feel makes them so versatile vs the other wedges? I noticed a few in the discount section of the golf town next to my office for $30-40 which isn't a bad price to test it out since they still allow returns on them.
 
ddelloch said:
What is it about the ATV's you feel makes them so versatile vs the other wedges? I noticed a few in the discount section of the golf town next to my office for $30-40 which isn't a bad price to test it out since they still allow returns on them.
Click to expand...

While most wedges have a specific bounce or sole, the ATV sole on Taylormade wedges essentially have all the bounces. For the price, they might be worth a look.
 
Some manufacturers employ one version of another of variable sole technology. Bridgestone J40s and the ATVs are a couple of examples. They more or less changes the whole bounce question by creating soles where the bounce varies.
 
I carry 4 wedges (pw, aw, 55, 60) but dont concern myself with bounce except for the 55 and 60. And only in bunkers. 55 with 14° bounce which ill open up and use in fluffy sand. 60 with 10° bounce in hard packed less sand. Otherwise I dont know how to use the bounce enough to really worry about it

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
 
Great info guys. It sounds like taking a few of the ATV's out for the day before I make up my mind might be the way to go.
 
blugold said:
There are many smarter people than me on the forum. Hopefully they correct me. But my understanding is that those surface textures do not actually add spin.
Click to expand...

The surface etching provides more traction/spin than the grooves do from a perfect lie.
 
dtak84 said:
The surface etching provides more traction/spin than the grooves do from a perfect lie.
Click to expand...

Unless I misunderstood what I read, that texture does nothing but look neat.

I hope JB, Jman, or Hawk catch this in the morning.
 
Check this test out done by Andrew Rice.
 
Short of the excessive and illegal diamond like surface abrasions, surface roughness actually doesn't directly impact spin.

Neither do legal vs illegal grooves, as evidenced by the results - or lack of them - on Tour when the grooves changed.

Now before you get your panties in a wad, here's the rub.

On a dry, clean club face.

Spin comes from clean contact with the face of the club.

Cochran and Stobbs proved several decades ago that a flat, groove less club spun identically to a flat, grooved club. Statistically identical.

Once you are playing from sand or rough however, you need grooves to move water and debris away from the club face to allow the ball to make contact with the largest flat surface area possible.

Faces need to be milled flat, not simply cast flat. This makes a measure able difference.

When I designed the Pure Fit wedges, I had them make me a couple of sets without grooves, simply milled flat. In my personal testing - including having the best wedge players I know hit these groove less clubs - the results were conclusive.

Launch monitor results confirmed as well.

But of course the real world needs grooves to keep the debris away from the face, and companies need marketing hype to sell clubs each year.

By the way, does the ball spin off your driver? Ever hit a big slice? No grooves in play...
 
ddelloch said:
Hi all,

Hoping for some opinions from people who have a better grasp than me (I am assuming that is most people)

I understand wedge bounce, I know what it is and I know what it is for. I really didn't get the concept too much when I bought my first real wedges. I have a medium bounce sand wedge and a high bounce 60 at the moment. I was thinking about upgrading this year but I feel like I want to be more informed this time around.

Right now I use both wedges all over the place. Sand/Chipping/Pitching/rough/fairway. Depending on the distance and the target I can use either in either situation. So my question is, with those being the facts, should I just be getting them both as medium bounce? I have no problems skulling the ball with either club and generally if I dig in on a sand shot it was a swing mechanic issue, not the club. Would there be any advantage one way or another?
Click to expand...

I have a 54° with 11° bounce and 56° with 10° bounce. I don't carry anything higher. The 54 is my SW (almost exclusively) and the 56 is my general purpose high loft wedge.

I also have a 47° PW and 51° GW which are Titleist AP-2 like the rest of my irons.
 
I don't think there is a right answer but me personally I like to have a low bounce and a high bounce available in my arsenal. So I have a 14* bounce in my 54* Sand Wedge and a Zero bounce in my 60* lob wedge. Now I wouldn't suggest a zero for most people, I like it because where I play at we see alot of hard tight lies by the greens so the zero bounce comes in handy. Likewise I keep my Sand with a high bounce to offset that when I get fluffier lies around the green. I think they make a good combination for me.
 
I use a 58* with 10 bounce but the sole grind allows to add or subtract depending on how i play it i also have a 64 bent to 62 with 6 bounce for lobing of tight fairways but it is only in play on certain courses
 
To answer your question, NO
 
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