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Monte Scheinblum's "voodoo putting"

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baldguy

baldguy

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I recently watched Monte Scheinblum's video "Short Game". It has a lot of good tips and info for those of us working on shaving strokes from 75 and in. One of the most interesting and frankly strange things he mentioned was something he calls "voodoo putting". It's a way of intuitively reading a long lag putt using your body instead of trying to decipher the green's nuances. I was skeptical at first, and I still really don't know how it works or how often it will work... but I tried it today and was absolutely shocked at how well it got me close to the hole. here's the deal:

For putts in the 12-30 foot range, you stand equidistant from the hole and ball. High side or low side doesn't matter as long as the ball is on your right and the hole on your left (for right handed golfers). Left handed golfers will want to reverse that. Step back from the line between the two about half as far as the total distance for the putt. Precision isn't paramount for this part, you just want a nice field of view where you can easily see the green between your ball and the hole. Look directly at the hole, then the ball, then the hole, then the ball and without taking your eyes off the ball, walk to it, set up and putt.

Sounds crazy, right? Today on the course WardF and I were talking about this, since we both had seen the video but neither had tried the method. On the 14th we had nobody behind us, so we both dropped an extra ball and tried this "voodoo" method for the first time. The putt was about 25 feet with a downhill left to right break. We both ended up in tap-in range! I was closer this way than I was with my regulation putt. Step back. Ball, hole, ball, hole, walk up and putt. it worked. it's crazy but it just worked. I tried it again on the 17th for a 20ish foot uphill right to left... it worked again! dumbfounded, I went with it again on the 18th (10ish foot level with a slight left to right) and for the third time in 3 attempts the stupid ball ended up inside of a foot. Uphill, downhill, left or right... they all just parked themselves. And I never looked up at the hole after walking to my ball.

I think the "voodoo" at work here is actually your body's innate ability to follow terrain and judge spatial distances in action. You can walk up and down hills, stairs, etc and over rocks and all sorts of terrain without having to calculate where to put your foot or how far to bend your knees. You can throw a ball to someone who is out of your peripheral vision pretty easily if you look at them first. The same things are working here. You know where the hole is, you felt and saw the terrain of the green. so putting the ball "over there next to the hole" is more natural than many of us make it. When we start picking lines and calculating speeds, we turn a natural "just hit it over there" into something much more complicated. Of course that is just my guess.

Now, I doubt this will work when there are multiple breaks, or a sizeable ridge or hill on your line. I don't *know* that it won't work but the concept shouldn't fit as easily in those situations. I don't know if it works for everyone. I am not even sure I fully understand exactly *why* it worked so well. I do know that it worked for me and I will definitely be using it for a while for lags to see if I can figure out where it falls short. Obviously, if the putt is in your comfort zone for actually making it then you probably want to get more complicated. For lags though... I am shocked, but I am intrigued.

Has anyone else seen this video? I highly recommend the entire "short game" video for lots of reasons, the putting method just being one of them. Has anyone else tried this method of "natural" or "voodoo" lag putting?
 
Haven't seen his video as I think you have to pay the 20 bucks or something for it. It makes sense though. You can figure out a lot about the way a putt breaks by standing about halfway to the hole and checking it out from there.
 
I have not seen this, though the theory of it all very much makes sense. I'm kind of looking forward to giving this a shot tomorrow. Thanks for sharing.
 
Mward said:
Haven't seen his video as I think you have to pay the 20 bucks or something for it. It makes sense though. You can figure out a lot about the way a putt breaks by standing about halfway to the hole and checking it out from there.
Click to expand...

it's money well spent, IMO. At least for someone like me who loses the majority of his strokes inside of 50 yards :banghead:
 
That's very similar to what the guy at Adam's explained to us.
 
baldguy said:
it's money well spent, IMO. At least for someone like me who loses the majority of his strokes inside of 50 yards :banghead:
Click to expand...

Simple solution: Don't leave yourself too many of those shots!

More useful solution: If you can hit a pitch shot, you can hit a 50yd pitch shot. It doesn't have to fly 50yds, it just has to go 50yds. SW, GW, PW, 9i, whatever you have to do to make it end up at that number. Try hitting a 9i from 50yds that lands halfway there and see how far it goes, like a long bump and run chip shot. Same concept.
 
capt.dru said:
That's very similar to what the guy at Adam's explained to us.
Click to expand...

yeah I wish I had spent more time in the putting room, I had no idea what was going on on the other side of the wall while I was gabbing with the fitting expert. I was only there for the part where he was showing off the laser. Which was still cool, but I missed a lot of valuable info
 
Mward said:
Simple solution: Don't leave yourself too many of those shots!

More useful solution: If you can hit a pitch shot, you can hit a 50yd pitch shot. It doesn't have to fly 50yds, it just has to go 50yds. SW, GW, PW, 9i, whatever you have to do to make it end up at that number. Try hitting a 9i from 50yds that lands halfway there and see how far it goes, like a long bump and run chip shot. Same concept.
Click to expand...
yeah I can hit that shot. I can hit it a lot better now that I've learned to use the bounce on my wedges. Still learning it of course, but it's something I've never really understood that monte's video cleared up for me pretty quickly. I always used the bump and run method (ball back in stance, putting motion) that works great for some shots but it never got me over a bunker with any accuracy and while I have had a handful of chip-ins that way I left myself long putts too many times. Now that I'm using the bounce for more shots, I am leaving myself a lot more makeable putts. And I'm getting on the green in situations where I struggled before. It's all part of a game overhaul that I've been working on. Totally changed my full swing and have recently started seeing the results I wanted with a lot more consistency. But, that exposed a real weakness in my short game. Monte's video has helped me start correcting that. I think the $20 price is a bargain :)
 
baldguy said:
yeah I can hit that shot. I can hit it a lot better now that I've learned to use the bounce on my wedges. Still learning it of course, but it's something I've never really understood that monte's video cleared up for me pretty quickly. I always used the bump and run method (ball back in stance, putting motion) that works great for some shots but it never got me over a bunker with any accuracy and while I have had a handful of chip-ins that way I left myself long putts too many times. Now that I'm using the bounce for more shots, I am leaving myself a lot more makeable putts. And I'm getting on the green in situations where I struggled before. It's all part of a game overhaul that I've been working on. Totally changed my full swing and have recently started seeing the results I wanted with a lot more consistency. But, that exposed a real weakness in my short game. Monte's video has helped me start correcting that. I think the $20 price is a bargain :)
Click to expand...

All depends on your weaknesses and such. For 20 bucks, it certainly couldn't hurt. If you pick up a couple things from it, fantastic value. I couldn't tell you the last time I used a bump and run with it back in my stance. Once you've done it another way, you realize how much more error the back in the stance can cause and how much more timing was needed. Longer shots, not so much. Shorter? Maaannnn you better commit to that shot and swing aggressively through it or you're moving it all of a few feet.
 
Mward said:
All depends on your weaknesses and such. For 20 bucks, it certainly couldn't hurt. If you pick up a couple things from it, fantastic value. I couldn't tell you the last time I used a bump and run with it back in my stance. Once you've done it another way, you realize how much more error the back in the stance can cause and how much more timing was needed. Longer shots, not so much. Shorter? Maaannnn you better commit to that shot and swing aggressively through it or you're moving it all of a few feet.
Click to expand...

totally agree. I've been playing golf all of 9 months now and I have learned and re-learned so many things. The "using the bounce" shot is brand new to me, as in I've only been doing it (somewhat correctly) for about a week. It started with a demo from a fellow THPer then was stengthened by the video from monte. Then I spent an couple hours practicing it and started using it this past weekend. It has completely changed my approach (no pun intended) to getting on the green from close range. I still need a lot more practice, but it's been 3 rounds and each round I have saved myself a few strokes this way. it was yet another "a-ha moment" to add to the pile :D
 
baldguy said:
totally agree. I've been playing golf all of 9 months now and I have learned and re-learned so many things. The "using the bounce" shot is brand new to me, as in I've only been doing it (somewhat correctly) for about a week. It started with a demo from a fellow THPer then was stengthened by the video from monte. Then I spent an couple hours practicing it and started using it this past weekend. It has completely changed my approach (no pun intended) to getting on the green from close range. I still need a lot more practice, but it's been 3 rounds and each round I have saved myself a few strokes this way. it was yet another "a-ha moment" to add to the pile :D
Click to expand...

9 months is still early. Some people have been leading edge chipping for all their playing lives. The practice is fun once you do it right, and frustrating when you get in a weird lie and think putting it back in your stance will help. Not always!
 
I haven't tried his putting yet (gee look, it's snowing AGAIN) but his video was what really got me how to figure out how to use the bounce on my wedges. Once I got the hang of not letting the right arm stall, I was hitting gorgeous soft shots in my backyard, and I'm a chronic skuller when it comes to shots around the green.

$20 well spent, IMHO.
 
I am a big fan of Monte's approach to things, and seen all of his YouTube videos. Need to get the short game video. The voodoo putting concept sounds pretty interesting and need to give it a shot.
 
baldguy said:
I recently watched Monte Scheinblum's video "Short Game". It has a lot of good tips and info for those of us working on shaving strokes from 75 and in. One of the most interesting and frankly strange things he mentioned was something he calls "voodoo putting". It's a way of intuitively reading a long lag putt using your body instead of trying to decipher the green's nuances. I was skeptical at first, and I still really don't know how it works or how often it will work... but I tried it today and was absolutely shocked at how well it got me close to the hole. here's the deal:

For putts in the 12-30 foot range, you stand equidistant from the hole and ball. High side or low side doesn't matter as long as the ball is on your right and the hole on your left (for right handed golfers). Left handed golfers will want to reverse that. Step back from the line between the two about half as far as the total distance for the putt. Precision isn't paramount for this part, you just want a nice field of view where you can easily see the green between your ball and the hole. Look directly at the hole, then the ball, then the hole, then the ball and without taking your eyes off the ball, walk to it, set up and putt.

Sounds crazy, right? Today on the course WardF and I were talking about this, since we both had seen the video but neither had tried the method. On the 14th we had nobody behind us, so we both dropped an extra ball and tried this "voodoo" method for the first time. The putt was about 25 feet with a downhill left to right break. We both ended up in tap-in range! I was closer this way than I was with my regulation putt. Step back. Ball, hole, ball, hole, walk up and putt. it worked. it's crazy but it just worked. I tried it again on the 17th for a 20ish foot uphill right to left... it worked again! dumbfounded, I went with it again on the 18th (10ish foot level with a slight left to right) and for the third time in 3 attempts the stupid ball ended up inside of a foot. Uphill, downhill, left or right... they all just parked themselves. And I never looked up at the hole after walking to my ball.

I think the "voodoo" at work here is actually your body's innate ability to follow terrain and judge spatial distances in action. You can walk up and down hills, stairs, etc and over rocks and all sorts of terrain without having to calculate where to put your foot or how far to bend your knees. You can throw a ball to someone who is out of your peripheral vision pretty easily if you look at them first. The same things are working here. You know where the hole is, you felt and saw the terrain of the green. so putting the ball "over there next to the hole" is more natural than many of us make it. When we start picking lines and calculating speeds, we turn a natural "just hit it over there" into something much more complicated. Of course that is just my guess.

Now, I doubt this will work when there are multiple breaks, or a sizeable ridge or hill on your line. I don't *know* that it won't work but the concept shouldn't fit as easily in those situations. I don't know if it works for everyone. I am not even sure I fully understand exactly *why* it worked so well. I do know that it worked for me and I will definitely be using it for a while for lags to see if I can figure out where it falls short. Obviously, if the putt is in your comfort zone for actually making it then you probably want to get more complicated. For lags though... I am shocked, but I am intrigued.

Has anyone else seen this video? I highly recommend the entire "short game" video for lots of reasons, the putting method just being one of them. Has anyone else tried this method of "natural" or "voodoo" lag putting?
Click to expand...


It is remarkable - I learned it last fall and then played on a Tom Doak course with crazy breaks using it. I was amazed to see the results since at least half of the time I figured I was lined up at least a foot or two offline - almost every putt looked like it might go in and once I had confidence in the line, my speed control improved as well.

I highly recommend the rest of the video - chipping with the bounce is something I taught my daughter but he explains it much better than I.
 
Mward said:
More useful solution: If you can hit a pitch shot, you can hit a 50yd pitch shot. It doesn't have to fly 50yds, it just has to go 50yds. SW, GW, PW, 9i, whatever you have to do to make it end up at that number. Try hitting a 9i from 50yds that lands halfway there and see how far it goes, like a long bump and run chip shot. Same concept.
Click to expand...

I have started doing this lately, and it's really been helping me. As long as the situation allows you to let the ball run, I almost always will have better results with this method. I will tend to use a wedge at 50 yards, but at 30 yards, I'm definitely thinking about a lower lofted club.
 
Thanks for the information baldguy, worth checking into for a few strokes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Love the short game video and recommended it to Baldguy. Simple method and easy download to put on the smartphone and take with you to the practice area.

The voodoo putting thing was crazy how close you can guess it-need some more testing with it to see how it helps on pressure reads.
 
I have never heard of the voodoo putting, but with the great explanation from baldguy, I will have to try it my next round.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MonteScheinblum said:
Glad you guys enjoyed that segment.

Any questions I can answer on the voodoo putting thing or anything else on the video?
Click to expand...
Welcome to THP Monte!! I love your blog and the Short game video--can't wait for the wedge video next!

I do have one question, what bounce are you playing on your wedges for the type of chipping in the video?

Ward
 
MonteScheinblum said:
Glad you guys enjoyed that segment.

Any questions I can answer on the voodoo putting thing or anything else on the video?
Click to expand...
I have a bajillion questions :D. So much good info in that Short Game video and I have definitely put much of it to use. Right now I do have one question that sticks out above the rest. not about the voodoo putting, but about chipping/pitching using the bounce. The method I've been trying to use, and what *I think* you're describing in that video, is to basically slide the club under the ball. Today a much more "big time" golfer than I am said that it still should be a descending blow at the ball, which makes sense. So my question is: did I just interpret your video incorrectly, or are these two different methods? My shots with this method tend to go pretty high and land very soft. Obviously this is the other end of the spectrum from the bump and run. Should I be shooting for something in between?

Thanks man!

P.S. I wore cargo shorts today and loved it :D
 
Monte Scheinblum's "voodoo putting"

MonteScheinblum said:
Glad you guys enjoyed that segment.

Any questions I can answer on the voodoo putting thing or anything else on the video?
Click to expand...

Hello old friend!

With regards to chipping: I know this method produces a higher, softer shot around the greens. What do you do though when you need to put some extra spin on it? Whatever scenario that can come to mind where going high and soft isn't an option.
 
baldguy said:
I have a bajillion questions :D. So much good info in that Short Game video and I have definitely put much of it to use. Right now I do have one question that sticks out above the rest. not about the voodoo putting, but about chipping/pitching using the bounce. The method I've been trying to use, and what *I think* you're describing in that video, is to basically slide the club under the ball. Today a much more "big time" golfer than I am said that it still should be a descending blow at the ball, which makes sense. So my question is: did I just interpret your video incorrectly, or are these two different methods? My shots with this method tend to go pretty high and land very soft. Obviously this is the other end of the spectrum from the bump and run. Should I be shooting for something in between?

Thanks man!

P.S. I wore cargo shorts today and loved it :D
Click to expand...

Hey Josh, similar methods as they both were hitting the ground with the bounce of the club--Nate's method was locking the wrist so the follow through was not the same as the Method Monte was teaching. Monte's method has the club going down to skip the bounce off the turf, but allow the wrist to break while keeping the right arm moving. More of a natural skip of the bounce than the hold off on the wrist break--people out there have success with both, so its just choosing which you want to go with. It could also vary from a true chip to more of a pitch in some methods.
 
WardF said:
Welcome to THP Monte!! I love your blog and the Short game video--can't wait for the wedge video next!

I do have one question, what bounce are you playing on your wedges for the type of chipping in the video?

Ward
Click to expand...


I used a 4 bounce in order to find the most effective method to deliver it. I have a 12 as well. Most often I use 7.
 
It is still descending, it's just shallower than the way most of us were taught.

The important point.

most people are too steep when they chip. The "scoopers and flippers" are not too shallow, they are just stalling the right arm.

I came up with this stuff after spending over 100 hours inside the ropes at the short game area of PGA tour events...observing and noting techniques versus stats. There is nearly a one to one correlation between those that lead with the bounce and those that lead with the leading edge.

The "bouncers" are better.
 
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