New set of irons

Spivey · Jun 10, 2014

My $.02 - Get fitted. Try a bunch of clubs that you like and that others recommend. On a monitor. At the range. Buy what you like, what fits your game, and have a good time doing it!
I spent a lot of time at Golfsmith and my local Van's golf shop before purchasing my "GI" clubs. Two of my three fitters recommended the S55's but I preferred something else.

Mulligan9111 · Jun 10, 2014

Wake said:
And he averages 13 gir?

He doesn't miss many greens. I don't know his exact average, but it's definitely over half the greens on an average round.

Something I don't think you realize is that on some greens he misses, he can easily take a triple bogey because of his putting and chipping/pitching. So while he will have holes where he does just fine, hitting the green and two putting, he will have holes like I just described where he throws up a triple bogey.

Evok · Jun 10, 2014

I just don't see how someone can put so much time into their swing to flush every shot but 5 putts every time or can't hit a single wedge shot? We aren't talking about the difference between a 15hc and a 9 but rather an 18 and scratch haha just doesn't add up. I've never seen anyone close to 18hc who hits like a scratch player I just don't think its realistic. Just my opinion however play whatever equipment makes you happy

Mulligan9111 · Jun 10, 2014

Evok said:
I just don't see how someone can put so much time into their swing to flush every shot but 5 putts every time or can't hit a single wedge shot? We aren't talking about the difference between a 15hc and a 9 but rather an 18 and scratch haha just doesn't add up. I've never seen anyone close to 18hc who hits like a scratch player I just don't think its realistic. Just my opinion however play whatever equipment makes you happy

I can't force you to believe me, I'm just going off what I witness every week. His driver and irons have absolutely nothing to do with his handicap, it's all short-game related.

Awkward silence · Jun 10, 2014

Evok said:
I just don't see how someone can put so much time into their swing to flush every shot but 5 putts every time or can't hit a single wedge shot? We aren't talking about the difference between a 15hc and a 9 but rather an 18 and scratch haha just doesn't add up. I've never seen anyone close to 18hc who hits like a scratch player I just don't think its realistic. Just my opinion however play whatever equipment makes you happy

I agree you are what you are and 18 hcp is that way not because just ONE part of their game sucks IMO. Someone who would spend so much time getting to the level of ball striking mulligan is refering to would more than likely spend time on and around the greens.

edit: obviously there could be an exception but most of time 18hcp dont flush every shot tee to green.

Mulligan9111 · Jun 10, 2014

Awkward silence said:
I agree you are what you are and 18 hcp is that way not because just ONE part of their game sucks IMO. Someone who would spend so much time getting to the level of ball striking mulligan is refering to would more than likely spend time on and around the greens.

edit: obviously there could be an exception but most of time 18hcp dont flush every shot tee to green.

Professionals don't even flush every shot tee to green....not sure I fully understand your point.

Anyways, I'm just going to bow out of this thread. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Awkward silence · Jun 10, 2014

Mulligan9111 said:
Professionals don't even flush every shot tee to green....not sure I fully understand your point.

Anyways, I'm just going to bow out of this thread. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I agree poor choice of words. The way you make it sound is that this could be a normal occurance. But on avg a person with a 18 hcp has harder time with center contact on the club face and would be penalized playing thiner unforgiving irons. I think we can agree on this.

Karl · Jun 10, 2014

You could game GI irons and pick up some used players irons to practice with. I'm thinking of picking up some for practice myself.

Pendragon63 · Jun 10, 2014

Mulligan9111 said:
He doesn't miss many greens. I don't know his exact average, but it's definitely over half the greens on an average round.

Something I don't think you realize is that on some greens he misses, he can easily take a triple bogey because of his putting and chipping/pitching. So while he will have holes where he does just fine, hitting the green and two putting, he will have holes like I just described where he throws up a triple bogey.

OK, your buddy has a horrible short game. But someone like this, who in your words hits his irons like a scratch golfer but plays to an 18 handicap, is such an anomaly that his situation has no relevance to this entire discussion. Most 18's would love to be able to hit 5 or 6 greens in regulation. For your buddy, it doesn't matter what irons he uses because his short game sucks so bad. I can't resist asking if he ever actually works on his chipping and putting.

Thrash · Jun 10, 2014

Pendragon63 said:
Nice to see someone using some common sense. I've been surprised at how many posters have been urging this 18 handicap to look at sets like the AP2's and even the Callaway X Forged! You're a 2 and play with SpeedBlade irons. I'm a 3 and play with Mizuno MP-H4's...I'm pretty certain that neither of us would ever consider playing Callaway X Forged irons, because we know they provide little or no margin for error on mishits. Why would anyone recommend such a set for an 18???

To each their own. My handicap fluctuates between 10-14, and has been trending down since I went back to a "players" iron. I love the feel and extra precision I get with the short irons. Isn't that where "scoring" comes from anyway?

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-CRW- · Jun 10, 2014

Pendragon63 said:
OK, your buddy has a horrible short game. But someone like this, who in your words hits his irons like a scratch golfer but plays to an 18 handicap, is such an anomaly that his situation has no relevance to this entire discussion. Most 18's would love to be able to hit 5 or 6 greens in regulation. For your buddy, it doesn't matter what irons he uses because his short game sucks so bad. I can't resist asking if he ever actually works on his chipping and putting.

I'm in the same boat. I average 3-6 GIR's and 10+ of 14 FIRS and am a 15 handicap. I also average 36 or less putts and usually no more than 1 or 2 penalties (always due to water/forced carries).

I don't think switching to S/GI irons would help me at all. Spending more time on short game will get me to a single digit handicap eventually though.

mark blanchard · Jun 11, 2014

I like to deal in probablities, not outlying exceptions. While it is possible that an 18 capper could drive the ball 250+ in most fairways, then find GIR's 80% of the time -- only to end up with 40 to 50 putts per round in order to sink back into the 90's -- it is simply not very likely.

What is more likely is that we're dealing with a fellow who would like to play what he perceives to be "more prestigious" irons than are best for his game. I believe that's a symptom of internet golf, is it not? And of course Mr. 18 capper should go see a local professional and get fitted (as well as have his swing diagnosed to find where the flaws are that are creating that 18 cap.) Without seeing him, we're all just speculating. But since he asked a question on a golf forum, that is our license to speculate and give him the best, most honest, most helpful answers we can.

I'll stand by my proffered advice -- a 18 capper would be better served by GI irons rather than forged player's irons.

Mulligan9111 · Jun 11, 2014

mark blanchard said:
I like to deal in probablities, not outlying exceptions. While it is possible that an 18 capper could drive the ball 250+ in most fairways, then find GIR's 80% of the time -- only to end up with 40 to 50 putts per round in order to sink back into the 90's -- it is simply not very likely.

What is more likely is that we're dealing with a fellow who would like to play what he perceives to be "more prestigious" irons than are best for his game. I believe that's a symptom of internet golf, is it not? And of course Mr. 18 capper should go see a local professional and get fitted (as well as have his swing diagnosed to find where the flaws are that are creating that 18 cap.) Without seeing him, we're all just speculating. But since he asked a question on a golf forum, that is our license to speculate and give him the best, most honest, most helpful answers we can.

I'll stand by my proffered advice -- a 18 capper would be better served by GI irons rather than forged player's irons.

Was going to stay away from this thread, but I wanted to point out in response to the bolded portion above, that you completely ignored the original poster. He stated he was a solid striker of the ball. So either you don't believe him, or you didn't read his post. He also stated the types of irons he was interested in and wanted people's thoughts and other suggestions for irons similar to those in his original post.

Either way it's not a big deal, I was just bringing up the point that just because someone is an 18 handicap, it doesn't mean they can't be a good ball-striker. And for what it's worth, my friend isn't an anomaly. There are plenty of higher handicap players who strike the ball just fine. Making assumptions about other golfers based on their handicap is completely unfair in my opinion.

mark blanchard · Jun 11, 2014

-CRW- said:
I'm in the same boat. I average 3-6 GIR's and 10+ of 14 FIRS and am a 15 handicap. I also average 36 or less putts and usually no more than 1 or 2 penalties (always due to water/forced carries).

I don't think switching to S/GI irons would help me at all. Spending more time on short game will get me to a single digit handicap eventually though.

Do you realize that your posted stats argue exactly the opposite? They scream "Something is wrong with my irons"

Let's analyze: You say you hit 10+ FIR in regulation. That's a very high number that most pro's would envy. Assuming you are getting out to 250+, your driver isn't the problem. If your drives are abnormally short, say 200 to 225, then you might want to look at this, but on the surface it appears not.

You say you average 36 putts or less and have only 1 to 2 penalties per round. Those are pretty normal numbers too. Heck, on my good days I'll only get 27-28 putts and that's with a bunch of easy greenside chips to two feet. So I see no glaring problems there either.

But only 3 GIR's after hitting 10+ fairways?? Something is wrong with your irons. Where in your irons the flaw hides needs more scrutiny. Are you missing the 8 iron approaches, then flubbing the chips? Are you topping your long irons? Are they going consistently left or right? Are you sculling them or thinning them? Most such issues can be fixed with lessons, not necessarily club changes, but it looks like the issue is in the irons to me.

CAA_Beat · Jun 11, 2014

Boy I am hesitant to jump in, but I can't resist.

Without painting the whole barn with the same brush, I am one of those 18 HC's that used to say I was a good ball striker. A few years have added clarity to that, and I don't call myself that anymore.

At the time, I hit my irons better than my driver. I would typically have 3 or 4 OB tee balls around. But I could get my irons in air and going forward, even though I might only hit two or three greens in a round. I thought my irons weren't the problem. I was getting them in the air and close to the green, so I was "striking the ball well" I now know that is not the case, the misses were just less penal than my driver misses. As simple as that.

I have a feeling most higher caps face a similar pattern. We tend to see ourselves as we want to be not what we actually are.

All a higher cap has to do is watch his swing on video to prove this point.

To the original point, the OP should get the clubs he feels best about. Regardless of what any of us say he should play.

-CRW- · Jun 11, 2014

mark blanchard said:
Do you realize that your posted stats argue exactly the opposite? They scream "Something is wrong with my irons"

No, I realize they point out flaws in my short game. Missing GIR's doesn't automatically mean I'm a bad iron striker. For me it means that most of my mistakes are around the green and typically if it's a full iron swing that misses it's usually a club/course management decision issue - too short, too far, and occasionally a pull left.

My drives average 250 total. My misses with the driver are almost always in decent shape, but could add a few strokes in a round due to being in an awkward position relative to the pin or in a bad lie that's going to screw with my distances. This is also where I usually find my penalties - pull into water. Others come from misjudged forced carries.

I do track my stats religiously and take weekly lessons and use trackman and high speed cameras during my lessons. I have tons of room to improve with my iron striking, but they are not the source of my current handicap. It's the other way around actually, they are helping me gradually chip away at my handicap.

And while my short game is improving, I have a lot of chips and pitches that are flubbed and don't make the green, or are topped and roll of the back. There are plenty of times were I'm on the fringe with a chance for birdie and end up 2 over on the hole. It is the area I focus the most on during practice and is the most difficult for me.

ETA - To put it into better perspective for you (and what really put my game into perspective for me), was a round I played with modified greens. I showed up to my normal course to find they were working on all the greens. So they had flat/level temporary greens on the fairway immediately in front of the normal greens. This essentially cut all of the more difficult short game shots out of the round. I shot an 81 that day, with 2 strokes caused by a penalty into water.

Literally, my short game accounts for upwards of 15 strokes per round. So I guess if you could cut the short game strokes out of my handicap it would be closer to 7. But that's not golf, and not realistic.

-CRW- · Jun 11, 2014

mark blanchard said:
You say you hit 10+ FIR in regulation. That's a very high number that most pro's would envy.

Pro's play courses that are on average 30 yards wide. Amateurs play courses that are on average OVER 40 yards wide. If I played pro courses my FIR's would be much lower. My average score would probably be 95-100 or worse as well.

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but you are being disrespectful without really putting thought into your statements. I guess I'm asking that you not jump to conclusions based on how you "feel" or on your "opinion", but rather on facts. If the OP is not being honest about his ball striking ability with his irons then that is on him. There is no need to argue whether it's possible for him to use the irons he wants to use.

katman · Jun 11, 2014

mark blanchard said:
[It's] is not about where your best shots end up, it's about where your worst shots finish.

This should be on a t-shirt or bumper sticker. Nice job, MB. :clapp:

Dr RosenRosen · Jun 11, 2014

CAA_Beat said:
Boy I am hesitant to jump in, but I can't resist.

Without painting the whole barn with the same brush, I am one of those 18 HC's that used to say I was a good ball striker. A few years have added clarity to that, and I don't call myself that anymore.

At the time, I hit my irons better than my driver. I would typically have 3 or 4 OB tee balls around. But I could get my irons in air and going forward, even though I might only hit two or three greens in a round. I thought my irons weren't the problem. I was getting them in the air and close to the green, so I was "striking the ball well" I now know that is not the case, the misses were just less penal than my driver misses. As simple as that.

I have a feeling most higher caps face a similar pattern. We tend to see ourselves as we want to be not what we actually are.

I almost chimed in last night to say the exact same thing. When I was an 18 hdcp, "trending downward," I bought some MP-32s (Forged musclebacks). Although the feel was amazing, and they were absolutely beautiful to look at, 60% of the time, they worked every time. I didn't realize at the time how difficult I was making golf just because I wanted to be seen as a player with a true player's iron.

It took me a long time to learn that people judge you by your game and how you conduct yourself on the course, not the irons you play. And really, most people only care about how you conduct yourself on the course.

That being said, I understand the sentiment that you should get what irons you like best. But before you do, take an honest assessment of your game and ask yourself if you have complete control and understanding of your iron shots. A good ball striker, in my opinion, can tell you within moments from the strike exactly what the ball is going to do ("5 yds short. Left fringe. Expletive!") If you are already there and the bladish irons you like make you more precise, then more power to you. If not, then some of the GI/CB suggestions in this thread are really great.

CAA_Beat · Jun 11, 2014

Dr RosenRosen said:
I almost chimed in last night to say the exact same thing. When I was an 18 hdcp, "trending downward," I bought some MP-32s (Forged musclebacks). Although the feel was amazing, and they were absolutely beautiful to look at, 60% of the time, they worked every time. I didn't realize at the time how difficult I was making golf just because I wanted to be seen as a player with a true player's iron.

It took me a long time to learn that people judge you by your game and how you conduct yourself on the course, not the irons you play. And really, most people only care about how you conduct yourself on the course.

That being said, I understand the sentiment that you should get what irons you like best. But before you do, take an honest assessment of your game and ask yourself if you have complete control and understanding of your iron shots. A good ball striker, in my opinion, can tell you within moments from the strike exactly what the ball is going to do ("5 yds short. Left fringe. Expletive!") If you are already there and the bladish irons you like make you more precise, then more power to you. If not, then some of the GI/CB suggestions in this thread are really great.

Very well said Doc. Much better than I did. And I did the same thing with a set of MP60's many years ago. Had them for less than 2 months.

Philly Golf Guy · Jun 11, 2014

The generalizations being thrown out on this thread are comical.

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Paladin · Jun 12, 2014

I like the Callaway Apex irons, myself. I think they combine the feel and aesthetics of a more player-ish iron with a lot of forgiveness. You have to really get away from the sweet spot to get an off the wall result, but the middle of the club face feels amazing. I don't know that I'd call myself even a middling striker of the golf ball. If I was, I'd still go for as much forgiveness as I could, because that's what I like in an iron.

As has been stated, there are a lot of different ways to score poorly. Trying to hook a player's score to a particular club is belying how diverse the game is.