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The Rudeness

Smallville said:
You are absolutely right.

A couple of things though. The single should be used to FILL an open tee time, or at least on open spot on a tee time of a twosome or a threesome, not to book a tee time as a single. That precludes a foursome from booking in that time slot, and if that entire time period is full (in say, the one hour window the foursome wants to tee off) then they will go somewhere else. Singles during busy times should only be used as fill spots, never as a tee time by themselves. A single should be able to get out pretty quickly, as there are always those groups who book as a foursome, but their fourth just isn't going to make it. That happens all the time. The single can always fill that spot.

Although, as I said earlier, they can always book as a single on GolfNow or the course website. But to expect to go out as a single because you don't want to be paired up with someone who MIGHT slow you down is ludicrous. In that case, find a time when no one else is out there and enjoy yourself.

If someone wants to go out as a single when there are open spots, I have no issue with them wanting to do so. Then, it's definitely better than sending out no one. But they should be walking on, not making a tee time.
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Which is what I have been trying to get across.
 
AG47 said:
Which is what I have been trying to get across.
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If your club was booking singles, as singles, and turning away foursomes without charging the single for all four slots you are one of the only clubs in the country doing it.
 
Smallville said:
Painted doesn't take tee times over the phone for singles, but do for twosomes, threesomes and foursomes. One way around it is to book online at the course website or on GolfNow. You should be able to get tee times for singles. You'll probably get paired up, but you should be able to get one.

We don't take them over the phone, but welcome singles as long as they know they will have to wait until there is an opening, and if it is a threesome, they will be sharing a cart with a stranger.

Usually only an issue on weekends, and maybe Fridays or Mondays.
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This!! Is exactly what I was trying to say. I certainly wouldn't expect a course to book an empty tee time for a single over the phone. Put him in with a threesome. I can even see not putting him with a two if it's a dew days out. You might get a call for twosome in hrs next day.


To AG, I work in Revenue Management as my job and more and more golf ownership are going to a revenue management program. It has proven more effective than just having the pro shop guys handle it.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. It sounds like you guys have a very successful club and good for you on the increased revenues. But for 99% of the courses out there turning away angles, they are losing revenue.

One question I do have. Is your club private or a daily fee course that offers annual memberships.
 
Good.Shepherd said:
If your club was booking singles, as singles, and turning away foursomes without charging the single for all four slots you are one of the only clubs in the country doing it.
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We don't book singles at all. A lot of times they call in for tee times as a 3some or 4some knowing that there will only be one player or they show up during peak hours and expect to get on the course as a single and get through the course in less than 3 hours.
 
CAA_Beat said:
This!! Is exactly what I was trying to say. I certainly wouldn't expect a course to book an empty tee time for a single over the phone. Put him in with a threesome. I can even see not putting him with a two if it's a dew days out. You might get a call for twosome in hrs next day.


To AG, I work in Revenue Management as my job and more and more golf ownership are going to a revenue management program. It has proven more effective than just having the pro shop guys handle it.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. It sounds like you guys have a very successful club and good for you on the increased revenues. But for 99% of the courses out there turning away angles, they are losing revenue.

One question I do have. Is your club private or a daily fee course that offers annual memberships.
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We are a public course that offers yearly memberships. We actually have two courses but the other is in VA.
 
Well you've got a very unique course in a lot of ways.

700 annual members probably means your annual membership is priced too low.


How many rounds on average is the annual player playing?

Also unique is the fact that people are calling in a foursome and showing up as a single. I can't say I've seen that at any other club that I'm aware of. Usually it's calling in a foursome and showing up with three or possibly two but never as a single.

But if you are having that as an Issue than you should institute a deposit policy on call ins. Or charge a penalty when they show up as a single.

I know people will fight it. But if you do it and stick to your guns they won't do it again.
 
CAA_Beat said:
Well you've got a very unique course in a lot of ways.

700 annual members probably means your annual membership is priced too low.


How many rounds on average is the annual player playing?

Also unique is the fact that people are calling in a foursome and showing up as a single. I can't say I've seen that at any other club that I'm aware of. Usually it's calling in a foursome and showing up with three or possibly two but never as a single.

But if you are having that as an Issue than you should institute a deposit policy on call ins. Or charge a penalty when they show up as a single.

I know people will fight it. But if you do it and stick to your guns they won't do it again.
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Our annual membership is $1300 which covers all cart and greens fees. We have a $1000 membership that still requires players to pay a $14 cart fee and we just started a mon-fri senior membership that runs $600 per year. On top of our daily fee players we do fairly well and put out over 40k rounds annually.

I have no problem with singles during non peak hours but they are a burdon during peak hours.
 
Where I play at they just tell me to show up usually before 7am if I plan on playing as a single. I usually show up at 6:15am and I am good to go.
 
CAA_Beat said:
This!! Is exactly what I was trying to say. I certainly wouldn't expect a course to book an empty tee time for a single over the phone. Put him in with a threesome. I can even see not putting him with a two if it's a dew days out. You might get a call for twosome in hrs next day.


To AG, I work in Revenue Management as my job and more and more golf ownership are going to a revenue management program. It has proven more effective than just having the pro shop guys handle it.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. It sounds like you guys have a very successful club and good for you on the increased revenues. But for 99% of the courses out there turning away angles, they are losing revenue.

One question I do have. Is your club private or a daily fee course that offers annual memberships.
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Painted Hills is privately owned, but a public course. We have members who can play any time, but not a ton of them. Typically, at least in the last two months, we fill 180 to 220 spots on Fridays thru Sundays, weather permitting, and 125 to 150 on every weekday but Wednesday, which is our Men's League night. That is 96 spots after 5 PM, and there are anywhere from 75 to 125 spots taken up to about 3:30.

We have plenty of times that singles can go out with nary an issue worrying about having to wait. And that includes the weekends. If someone shows up as a single, and our 10:36 is a no show, by all means we'll send out a single. But they have to understand that if they run into a bunch of groups who are on pace, and we enforce a 4:30 pace, they are probably not going to get through many groups, and if they are back to back to back to back to back to back, our marshals aren't going to ask them to let a single through. They will, if there are open spots, but not when everyone is either waiting anyway, or directly behind the group ahead. Singles play faster, no doubt, but for them (and by them, I mean me, as I go out as a single quite a bit) to have the attitude that they should get to go through because they are waiting on a foursome, it a bunch of crap. Sorry, but that's how I feel, and when I am a single who is on a backed up course, I will try to pair up with another group to slow my onesome group down, so I don't have to wait so much on the group ahead. Or hit multiple balls. Don't feel entitled, because you as a single chose to go out by yourself (or, me, going out by MYSELF), to have the right to pass any and all groups ahead of you.

If there is space ahead, any group I am in will let a single through. I see it happen all the time with a lot of people. A single goes through us, then catches the next group a hole or two up, passes them, and so on and so on. No problem. It's when they expect to be let through and there is nowhere to go that it is a problem, and they will just have to deal with it. Maybe next time they will pair up and avoid the so-called rudeness.
 
JFlores said:
Where I play at they just tell me to show up usually before 7am if I plan on playing as a single. I usually show up at 6:15am and I am good to go.
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That works well most of the time. Even on weekends. We have guys who come out at 6:15 and are DONE by 7:30. Groups at that time usually have no problem letting a single jump out ahead.
 
AG47 said:
At a $28 fee per player and a seat that is not filled there is a $28 dollar lose on that cart and another $56 in the other cart that should went out with them. Put that with lost food and ProShop revenues and there is over $100 in lost revenue from that single. I have no problem with singles when the tee sheet isn't packed but when it is packed there is a loss in revenue.
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This is incorrect.

If you sent a single out onto the course that means that there was no foursome in that timeslot. Therefore, you didn't lose $100+, you just made money...the cost of a single green fee.

EDIT: I just saw some others already said the same thing, didn't mean to pile on.
 
ArmyGolf said:
This is incorrect.

If you sent a single out onto the course that means that there was no foursome in that timeslot. Therefore, you didn't lose $100+, you just made money...the cost of a single green fee.

EDIT: I just saw some others already said the same thing, didn't mean to pile on.
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Read some of my posts on page 4 of this forum.
 
I have a feeling I may have started a bad thread.......
 
CajunBowHunter said:
I have a feeling I may have started a bad thread.......
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Not at. Look at all of the discussion.

Nothing has crossed a line. Nothing has been rude or personal.

Lots of very good feedback.
 
It is but I do not want any bad blood started between anyone.
 
Smallville said:
Painted Hills is privately owned, but a public course. We have members who can play any time, but not a ton of them. Typically, at least in the last two months, we fill 180 to 220 spots on Fridays thru Sundays, weather permitting, and 125 to 150 on every weekday but Wednesday, which is our Men's League night. That is 96 spots after 5 PM, and there are anywhere from 75 to 125 spots taken up to about 3:30.

We have plenty of times that singles can go out with nary an issue worrying about having to wait. And that includes the weekends. If someone shows up as a single, and our 10:36 is a no show, by all means we'll send out a single. But they have to understand that if they run into a bunch of groups who are on pace, and we enforce a 4:30 pace, they are probably not going to get through many groups, and if they are back to back to back to back to back to back, our marshals aren't going to ask them to let a single through. They will, if there are open spots, but not when everyone is either waiting anyway, or directly behind the group ahead. Singles play faster, no doubt, but for them (and by them, I mean me, as I go out as a single quite a bit) to have the attitude that they should get to go through because they are waiting on a foursome, it a bunch of crap. Sorry, but that's how I feel, and when I am a single who is on a backed up course, I will try to pair up with another group to slow my onesome group down, so I don't have to wait so much on the group ahead. Or hit multiple balls. Don't feel entitled, because you as a single chose to go out by yourself (or, me, going out by MYSELF), to have the right to pass any and all groups ahead of you.

If there is space ahead, any group I am in will let a single through. I see it happen all the time with a lot of people. A single goes through us, then catches the next group a hole or two up, passes them, and so on and so on. No problem. It's when they expect to be let through and there is nowhere to go that it is a problem, and they will just have to deal with it. Maybe next time they will pair up and avoid the so-called rudeness.
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Couldn't agree more with every word of this.
 
The Rudeness

CajunBowHunter said:
It is but I do not want any bad blood started between anyone.
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I don't think there is. And in fact I think overall we are all agreeing that singles are fine, but they should have a clear understanding of when and how they are allowed out.

But back to your original point. There are some grumpy old men as starters and rangers and that should never be the case.
 
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CAA_Beat said:
I don't think there is. And in fact I think overall we are all agreeing that singles are fine, but they should have a clear understanding of when and how they are allowed out.

But back to your original point. There are some grumpy old men as starters and rangers and that should never be the case.
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Yep. They should be courteous no matter what situation they are dealing with. Even when I am dealing with a person that is being unruly or not abiding by the rules I am as respectful as possible. It is not until the situation escalates out of control that I break my tact and even then I stay professional and get my point across.
 
AG47 said:
Yep. They should be courteous no matter what situation they are dealing with. Even when I am dealing with a person that is being unruly or not abiding by the rules I am as respectful as possible. It is not until the situation escalates out of control that I break my tact and even then I stay professional and get my point across.
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It is hard dealing with the public. I know that for sure. Probably 95%of consumers are reasonable people. But that other 5% sure get around.
 
The Rudeness

AG47 said:
We don't book singles at all. A lot of times they call in for tee times as a 3some or 4some knowing that there will only be one player or they show up during peak hours and expect to get on the course as a single and get through the course in less than 3 hours.
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This right here tells me there is a management and/or culture issue where
People need to lie and deceive in order to play the course and where management tries to enforce rules to prevent it. Seems that the club is trying to act like a full private club by enforcing strict tee time rules (like how some places don't let non members play before 2:00) and as a result are catering to groups and treating singles like an outcast. If it were me and this was the way I was treated is never consider joining there. Imagine the revenue they COULD generate if they turned these singles into members instead of turning them into haters.

I have a suspicion your typically booked with the members and the singles are non members.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think your club is trying to be something it's not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Somebody should be hiring Good Shepard :)
 
I just tell them plain and simple they will not get my business again, it happened once before I moved (club name redacted) and the assistant pro and pro tried everything to get me to keep playing there(the town where I was playing my family name is very well known and if one of us struck something down, word got out, and they knew it too)


Tapatalkin it in on my iPhone 4S
 
CajunBowHunter said:
Why is it that some courses and Marshalls feel the need to be rude when you show up with no tee time..

A local Munic course that I play more than others are good for this..

They say only make a tee time for 3 or more players.

But when I show up Solo or with a friend they get unreal about it cause of tee time.....


Rant over
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Back to the OP.....

I have no problem telling someone what I think about them when they get rude.
Especially if my hard earned dollars are being spent to pay their wages. (this includes the marshals working for free golf)
If I were treated like CBH, someone would be getting an earful.
I show up at courses as a single almost every Friday morning.
I don't have a tee time and I know I may have to wait a little while before getting paired up.
The driving range and a bucket of balls makes for a great waiting room.
In the case of CBH, I would be looking for the course manager/superintendent/whatever the head guy/gal is called, and have a discussion with them about how employees are treating paying customers.
 
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