We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Trouble releasing/closing the club face when swinging in to out.

GolfFest

GolfFest

#DriveFor5
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
6,459
Reaction score
2,790
Location
Utah
Handicap
Time
I've resigned myself to playing a fade off the tee lately, it will start a little left and end up in the middle. It is a very playable shot, but I am giving up some distance.

When I swing in to out I can't seem to get the face closed to the path. On Taylormade's motion system it was showing 2-3º in to out with the face another 2-3º open to the path. The instructor strengthened an already strong grip but really didn't fix anything. When I swing in to out the ball will either start right and not curve at all or start right and then curve further right.

Any ideas?
 
sliding too much into impact and getting too far ahead of the ball?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I took a video, and I'll try to get something online, but a couple things stood out to me.

First was at the top of the backswing the clubface was vertical, meaning perpendicular to the ground, not pointing at the sky. My left wirst is definitely cupped. I feel part of that is my wrist starts out cupped by taking that strong of a grip to begin with. Do I need to be flattening it during the backswing?

Second is I am definitely holding the clubface open and up through impact. Probably caused partially by my position at the top of the backswing but it isn't turning over in time.
 
I have this issue, as I have ingrained hold off the face with a severe over the top swing. This prevented a wicked duck hook, but as I have gotten my path more in to out, I still struggle with holding it open.

Really having to work on relaxing the hands and letting the club go where it needs to naturally. I have started gripping the club as hard as possible, then relaxing it to try and get all the tension out of the forearms.

I know for me, a lot of my practice time is trying to undo horrible habits... hopefully now I am doing things the right way! Good luck!
 
The down swing plane needs to be below the back swing plane ( think Ryan Moore) that way the club physically closes on its own.

Changing the grip stronger without identifying the real issue potentially adds complication later on.

The club face should be square to the back of the left hand, if it's vertical when your wrist is cupped then you might need to get a more neutral grip to start with.

Ball position is also worth looking into.
 
Ok a very related question , how much forearm rotation should there be in the backswing?
 
That's more or less a release question. When the body rotates properly and take away is shoulder oriented, the forearms are more or less rotating naturally one way to another, think tossing a large medicine ball, the rotation is dictated by the shoulder and body, then in the down or through swing towards the target the forearms rotate back naturally. In numbers I will say no more than 90 degrees from address, but the action is a result of shoulder rotation and bringing the club around the body. Ideally the back of the left hand and the shoulder should be about the same plane. Ricky Fowler's new swing is a excellent demo.
 
How about aim left of your target and play the cut. I promise you are not loosing too much.
 
I was losing about 30-40 yards, which I think is a lot.

Just got got done at the range and was hitting 100 times better. What I was doing was not rotating my forearms at all with the driver and then towards the end of the backswing I was lifting the club up and it was cupping my wrist and opening the face.

I am now rotating my forearms about 60° from address about when my arms pass my right and lifting the club more with my arms and less with my wrists. I think it is putting me in a much better position at the top. I was hitting so much better today.
 
I'm glad you are hitting it better. I hope ypur fix last. I'm curious, how do you know you were loosing 30 to 40 yards in distance?
 
Primarily by playing my home course, I know my distances pretty well there.

It isn't a fade vs draw thing, but some of the other things I was doing. The face was being delivered up and a little open and I was hitting off the heel. I was hitting high with too much spin and not really getting any roll out, and our conditions here allow for a ton of rollout. Trying to hit driver with no forearm rotation wasn't a good idea.

I was was trying to hard to keep the clubface closed and it was doing the opposite. I felt yesterday it was a lot more shoulder driven. I seemed to release much more naturally and was finding the center of the face.

I'll try and get a video up it may be easier to visualize what was going on.
 
So for the most part I have been swinging a little bit better, and my irons have been great, I am still having some issues with the driver.

I couldn't make it to the range today but I did go out into the backyard and get super slo-mo video from down the line and a shot from in front. I'm hoping the video will be a lot more helpful than me trying to explain things.

[video=youtube;-sCE866mV2w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sCE866mV2w[/video]

I am noticing my left wrist is still pretty cupped at the top of the backswing and that I end up delivering the club head with a lot of extra loft. I think there are a lot of good movements in there but I am getting lost somewhere.

Edit: My first thought from watching this is maybe too much backswing. With my irons the shaft gets just past vertical, not close to parallel with the ground, the driver looks like it is getting past parallel, almost like there is a little breakdown at the end.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like I might have this problem too! Wish I could help.
 
caeleric said:
sliding too much into impact and getting too far ahead of the ball?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

After watching the video there is some of this going on. You come off the ball on your backswing and then again as you approach impact. I struggle with this a ton and the best advice I got was from Tadashi and Blugold here, and it was to make a bunch of small controlled swings with the feet together, then with weight on the lead foot, and also some with a very closed stance. It helps to sync up the arms with the body. Another thought is to keep your back pointing at the target for a little longer during the swing which is just another way of giving your arms and body a chance to sync up for better timing/tempo.
 
warning i have my own problems too but something i see in your swing that messes me up badly when i do it.....on the take away, when the driver is parallel to the ground, the club head is behind your target line. also, at impact, it looks like your swing is st its most "right" on the path as it ever gets, immediately swinging left. Both of those issues i struggle with and lead to very poor driving accuracy for me. i practice having my club parallel to the ground and pointing directly down target line, face at a 90° to the target line, rotate, tuck the trailing arm and swing outward after impact. works for me...when it works for me. lol
losing 30-40 yards from a fade seems "odd". hope you can find your groove!
 
I can't watch the video without signing up for an account.

I'm hitting my irons much better than the log clubs, a couple of reasons why is a smaller backswing where the club doesn't get to parallel. I am also able to come from the inside with them and hit a little draw. I feel like a totally different player with an iron or a wedge.

My hybrids-driver which I used to draw is where I am having the issues. I'm a little hesitant at the moment to hit into out because it is either a push or push-slice. Coming out in to in isn't ideal but a ball that starts left and ends up in the middle is better than the right.

As far as distance goes I think a lot of the loss is due to just adding so much loft to the driver. I am having a lot more success when I am able to get a good turn with the shoulders, not fight the natural rotation of the forearms, and get a flatter left wrist at the top. I'm still hitting a fade there but a lot closer to the distance that I am used to.

One thing I know though is trying to many different things to try and fix things just hasn't worked.
 
I know it sounds simplistic but have you tried closing the club face at setup?
If your impact position is continually 2-3* open, a 2-3* closed position at setup may just give you a straight ball flight.
 
You can sign up and watch the video for free. It's worth your time.

I do the exact same things and even when working on these things, some days are better and others aren't. And I've seen 30-50 yard distance losses as well when I lunge overly forward because of low heel contact. It's the black hole of power suckers when it's come to contact across the face. And if you hit there, your face could be square but you'll get gear effect causing the slice spin. This was especially bad with the SLDR, but I haven't hit the R15 so I have no idea if it's the same. I can say with 100% certainty that gear effect was lessened a ton going from the SLDR to the Callaway XR. It's made using the driver much less frustrating.

I wouldn't expect closing the face at address to help and could hurt you more. When I try it and make that low heel contact it ends up being a near-whiffed low pull that's super weak from the hooded face and poor contact.
 
I have thought about closing the face a little, but I think that is merely a bandaid. Especially with the hybrids which I used to draw so easily. When I had the SLDR I almost never lost anything to the right, only to the left.

A couple weeks ago I went and hit a bunch of drivers that were supposed to be more forgiving, including the XR, as I wasn't all that thrilled with how I was hitting. The R15 beat them all by quite a bit though so I decided not to mess with the club but that I need to fix my swing.

Looks like a good drill there, I have some alignment rods I'll try that one.
 
The forgiving part is just ball speed retention across the face. But drivers with a cg that is further forward and lower will generally produce longer drives when struck well. So with forgiving drivers it's better to compare your misses than your best shots, because most of us won't hit our best shots more than a handful of times a round.

The amount of gear effect isn't something I read or hear many talk about when it comes to forgiveness. It's just been a personal observation for me and has helped keep my tee shots in play much more with the XR versus my previous SLDR. Though, it hasn't helped my scores much either.
 
I have noticed a loss of speed especially low and on the heel. Not near as bad as the SLDR was out on the toe. The day I went and tested I wasn't swinging any of them all that well. I've tried 6-7 times to find something better. A poor shot from the R15 is better for me than a poor shot from other clubs I have tried.
 
GolfFest said:
I have noticed a loss of speed especially low and on the heel. Not near as bad as the SLDR was out on the toe. The day I went and tested I wasn't swinging any of them all that well. I've tried 6-7 times to find something better. A poor shot from the R15 is better for me than a poor shot from other clubs I have tried.
Click to expand...

You might also consider getting the swing weight checked out and increasing it if its D3 or lower. It can be done quickly and easily with lead tape and won't hurt anything. I've found that increasing my driver up to D5 has helped to tame my irratic tempo (which leads to the forward lunge with the driver). My XR was at C9 when I had it checked and that's ridiculously low.

Some people may suggest shortening the club but I've found that I can find the heel on a driver that plays at 44.5" or 46". For me it's less about the length and more about my relationship to the ball at impact compared to where I was at address.
 
20e712783ab165595609ebf456aeec3c.jpg


ad785a6e20c1f44630872225baa53beb.jpg


03d7e48267aefd5811545da4a8b107fb.jpg


9285fc26cc5ca68f967b2dd7cec0eb4d.jpg


I'd like you to work on one or two things at a time. You've gotten a few tips that will make it very difficult to return to consistent golf.

1. You stand too tall. You have very few angles in your setup. Put some flex in the knees and in the hips. The width of the stance is fine but go ahead produce some angles.

Keep those knees flexed in the back swing. And keep that left knee pointed forward. This will make you turn and not slide back away from the ball.

Your head needs to stay behind the ball but the turn I am seeing is killing your swing. It's a product of the straight up and down stance with a slide.

You must turn away and turn through the shot. Leave the electric slide for you 2nd cousins wedding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top