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Bunkers with Horrible Sand

Space Bandito said:
I'll preface this by saying that I have been playing well in the last few rounds. A minor tweak to my tempo has made my ball striking much better, and I'm happy with my game right now.

There's a course out here which I play rather frequently. I enjoy it as it's fairly gettable if you can keep your ball in the fairway. It's extremely mountainous (they won't let you walk, even if you ask) so if you miss the fairways and greens you run a significant risk of losing your ball. It's in pretty good shape, and they do an good job of keeping the greens nice (albeit, when it's dry they're crazy fast.)

The only problem I have with this course (and it goes for anyone I play with) is the fact that their bunkers are utter garbage. The best way I can describe them, is packed dirt. In recent years I have never seen anyone play a shot from a sand trap here as you would imagine a shot from a bunker is to be played. There is no way to hit behind the ball, or "blast" the ball up and out. If you don't make clean contact the shot results in a bladed rocket. I've become accustomed to playing the bunker shots as if they were a chip off of a cart path. The goal is not to get up and down but, simply, to get out and keep the ball in play.

A lot of times, if we're playing for nothing but laughs and beers, we'll play these hazards as ground under repair. No one likes to lose a ball because you sent it careening off of a cliff side at 90mph from a green side bunker.

But, as I've been playing well I have not wanted to take free relief from these traps, as I want to see how well I can play. Ultimately this has cost me strokes and I accept it as the rub of the green, but I won't say it doesn't leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I'm not playing for anything, not even a handicap, so it doesn't really matter what I do

What would you do? Play it as it lies or take relief? Do you call it unplayable? Do you hit it backwards as to try to give yourself another shot from the fairway?



*The course is aware of how bad things have become in the sand, but I believe they're struggling a bit financially, so I don't see a change coming any time soon.
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Our home course has had bunker issues too with hard pack dirt, weeds and poor drainage. I hadn't played out of them, but they are working on bunkers which is making it very nice. Several holes completed, but with all the complaining I have heard from playing partners, the golfers are not even raking their footprints on the bunkers that have been fixed. :rolleyes::dohanim:
 
Out here, alot of courses water their bunkers right along with the grass. Then the sun come out and bakes them into something way firmer than what a bunker should be. It gets worse in the hotter months. After several days of this treatment, and neglect by the maintenance crews, you can find yourself playing off something similar to hard pan.

It's a hazard. My ball is not supposed to be in a hazard. I put it there, and when playing for a score, I do the best I can with the situation.

With firmer/thin lies, I have a zero bounce, 60* wedge at my disposal. That club tends to help me get the ball into a better position.

A few years ago I played a course with terrible bunkers. They were so bad the course had many, many complaints. When ask, course managers (committee?) ok'd the ground under repair rule to be used. So there's another option.

Another thought might be to practice hitting balls off a board. This could make those future, firmer lies less of a problem, since a swing technique has been developed.

Speaking of practice, perhaps the course short game area has a firm bunker that can be utilized. The no rule against practicing poor shot conditions.
 
WLG1952 said:
Out here, alot of courses water their bunkers right along with the grass. Then the sun come out and bakes them into something way firmer than what a bunker should be. It gets worse in the hotter months. After several days of this treatment, and neglect by the maintenance crews, you can find yourself playing off something similar to hard pan.

It's a hazard. My ball is not supposed to be in a hazard. I put it there, and when playing for a score, I do the best I can with the situation.

With firmer/thin lies, I have a zero bounce, 60* wedge at my disposal. That club tends to help me get the ball into a better position.

A few years ago I played a course with terrible bunkers. They were so bad the course had many, many complaints. When ask, course managers (committee?) ok'd the ground under repair rule to be used. So there's another option.

Another thought might be to practice hitting balls off a board. This could make those future, firmer lies less of a problem, since a swing technique has been developed.

Speaking of practice, perhaps the course short game area has a firm bunker that can be utilized. The no rule against practicing poor shot conditions.
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You're absolutely right, and they do have a practice bunker that is similar, although the sand in the practice bunker is newer, and a little fluffier. I will hit balls out of it all day long and it's still a crap shoot.
 
The reason i think these particular bunkers should be GUR is simply the thought that when the company that purchased this course bought another in the area the year before, the first thing they did was renovate the bunkers. That course now has the best in the area. I'm holding out hope that they'll do it here.
 
We generally come to a group decision. That way fair for everyone.
We have one guy who likes to say play it as it lies until it happens to him, then he wants the free drop. We broke him of that crap quickly.
 
Space Bandito said:
I watched the ball roll toward the flag, go past the flag, into the bunker on the other side, through that bunker and down the mountain...
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hol-up, it rolled off a green and through a bunker without stopping?

yeah, if it's that bad, unless it's a tournament, I'm playing that ground under repair.
 
baylrballa said:
hol-up, it rolled off a green and through a bunker without stopping?

yeah, if it's that bad, unless it's a tournament, I'm playing that ground under repair.
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The funniest thing about it is how you can use it to your advantage on 18. 18 requires a carry over a pond to get to the green. There is a bunker behind and a small mound. If you take an extra club and try to land on the back of the green, you'll inevitably end up rolling through the bunker, up the mound, and begin to use the mound as a back stop which will trickle the ball toward the hole.
 
I should have been playing them as GUR on my last round. A lot of the bunkers on my "home" course suffer from rain run off removing all the sand. So they turn into dead pan rock/clay. I end up doing exactly what you describe. bounce off the base and that kicks leading edge up and skull it across the green and into water. There are a few that actually have fair sand in them. Now that i've gotten familiar with my Vokey SM7 60D, I find it fun playing in good sand bunkers.

I heard a rumor that my course will be completely redoing the bunkers next year! I hope that's true. it would really elevate the place.
 
@Space Bandito if the bunkers are as bad as you say they are, I'd play lift, clean and place... lift the ball out of the bunker, clean it, then place it outside the bunker and hit... and not take a stroke or penalty. I'd treat them as ground under repair.
 
With a very little sand shot. I play an explosion with a very light swing. I have one of those wedges like the KZG wide soul. So a little more steep with swing than normal. The ball shoots out much quicker and no spin.
 
Sounds like a few of our bunkers too. We play them... I ended up getting an ATV grind wedge because of it.
 
The only nearby public course that had fluffy bunkers just got sold to developers for house lots.
It had the best public course overall maintenance in the area and it's gone.

Most of the clubs are OK.
 
The bunkers at my course are mostly terrible due to climate and just not enough resources by the course to keep them in pristine condition. If it's really bad we'll play it as ground under repair, but for the most part it's just part of the course and we deal with it.

If we wanted nicer bunkers we'd probably head to Erin Hills or something. LOL.
 
Our bunkers are generally in terrible condition, too, but an occasional good raking would do wonders to help get them in at least somewhat playable condition. It'd be nice if I could just rake a small area around my ball came to rest and drop back into it to play out of some of them. As they are, my club bounces off the top of the 'sand' into the back of the ball too often, sending it 20-30 yards over the green.

The only practice bunker is by the putting green, which was re-purposed from the 9th hole many years ago. It sucks like the rest of them.
 
Oh man, mine are the same here. Even on a lot of the ‘nicer’ courses as opposed to the top end ones, the bunkers really let them down. Doesn’t help the amount of rain we get I think.
I tend to just treat them as almost a hard pan lie and try to nip it off the top with as little collateral damage as possible. Sometimes it works.....sometimes not so much.
 
Duffer Waldorf said:
Our bunkers are generally in terrible condition, too, but an occasional good raking would do wonders to help get them in at least somewhat playable condition. It'd be nice if I could just rake a small area around my ball came to rest and drop back into it to play out of some of them. As they are, my club bounces off the top of the 'sand' into the back of the ball too often, sending it 20-30 yards over the green.

The only practice bunker is by the putting green, which was re-purposed from the 9th hole many years ago. It sucks like the rest of them.
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@Johan185 joked with me yesterday as to what exactly I was raking after I hit my ball from the bunker on #7. Raking these sand traps is like raking the cart path. It barely even creates lines in the sand.

I joked back that the bunkers felt more like empty swimming pools that have had dust from the dry ground blown into them for a while.
 
Space Bandito said:
@Johan185 joked with me yesterday as to what exactly I was raking after I hit my ball from the bunker on #7. Raking these sand traps is like raking the cart path. It barely even creates lines in the sand.

I joked back that the bunkers felt more like empty swimming pools that have had dust from the dry ground blown into them for a while.
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I know bunkers like these well. Saturday a guy I was paired with said use the rake and put some sand under it, then play it. I would have needed blasting caps to get enough sand to put under the ball. I'm taking the ball out and moving it to grass behind the bunker. being forced to carry it is punishment enough for me, if I hit into one.
 
Space Bandito said:
I'll preface this by saying that I have been playing well in the last few rounds. A minor tweak to my tempo has made my ball striking much better, and I'm happy with my game right now.

There's a course out here which I play rather frequently. I enjoy it as it's fairly gettable if you can keep your ball in the fairway. It's extremely mountainous (they won't let you walk, even if you ask) so if you miss the fairways and greens you run a significant risk of losing your ball. It's in pretty good shape, and they do an good job of keeping the greens nice (albeit, when it's dry they're crazy fast.)

The only problem I have with this course (and it goes for anyone I play with) is the fact that their bunkers are utter garbage. The best way I can describe them, is packed dirt. In recent years I have never seen anyone play a shot from a sand trap here as you would imagine a shot from a bunker is to be played. There is no way to hit behind the ball, or "blast" the ball up and out. If you don't make clean contact the shot results in a bladed rocket. I've become accustomed to playing the bunker shots as if they were a chip off of a cart path. The goal is not to get up and down but, simply, to get out and keep the ball in play.

A lot of times, if we're playing for nothing but laughs and beers, we'll play these hazards as ground under repair. No one likes to lose a ball because you sent it careening off of a cliff side at 90mph from a green side bunker.

But, as I've been playing well I have not wanted to take free relief from these traps, as I want to see how well I can play. Ultimately this has cost me strokes and I accept it as the rub of the green, but I won't say it doesn't leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I'm not playing for anything, not even a handicap, so it doesn't really matter what I do

What would you do? Play it as it lies or take relief? Do you call it unplayable? Do you hit it backwards as to try to give yourself another shot from the fairway?



*The course is aware of how bad things have become in the sand, but I believe they're struggling a bit financially, so I don't see a change coming any time soon.
Click to expand...

I play out of bunkers that are like 💩 most of the time. They're nothing more than packed dirt. I mean all it would take would be buying sand and dumping it into them. How hard can it be? The course takes excellent care of the greens and fairways. It got so bad last year that I took unplayable lies and dropped behind the bunker - yes, it's a 2 stroke penalty.

If you can chip out of the bunker, you're good. But sometimes you can't because the lip of the bunker is too high, and you don't want your wedge digging in because it will really mess up your shot. But there's an alternative.

If you don't have one, buy a 58/8 C-grind wedge, or a 60/8 C-grind. These are Callaway's specs, YMMV. The grind is important. You want to be able to lay the wedge almost flat. Stand open to the target with the club face square to target. What you want to do is thump the club about an inch behind the ball and pop it out. You need to come in very steep. You can practice hitting this shot at the driving range on the mat. If you can pull it off on the mat you can do it in the bunker. It's basically a flop shot off the sand. Just thump it. You'll hear a "whump!" when you hit it.
 
My course has a few bunkers that are fantastic, near clubhouse & on holes that can be seen from the road. The remainder are awful.
I’ve talked to several greenskeepers & bunkers are very difficult to maintain.
 
As far as rules go, maybe talk to the pro about having marked as ground under repair until they can afford to fill them?
 
Do whatever you or your group decides, no need to feel guilty about it at all. You enjoy that course so play it how it suits you best.

You did ask what we would do however. So, speaking just for myself, I prefer to play bunker shots how I find them, regardless of how awful the conditions or lie. Unfortunately, craptastic bunkers are beyond common these days so I don't expect pristine lies all that often. Basically crappy conditions just require extra creativity in type of shot played, with what club, and maybe lowered expectations in extreme incidents. I enjoy those challenges so I choose to play them that way.
 
Space Bandito said:
@Johan185 joked with me yesterday as to what exactly I was raking after I hit my ball from the bunker on #7. Raking these sand traps is like raking the cart path. It barely even creates lines in the sand.

I joked back that the bunkers felt more like empty swimming pools that have had dust from the dry ground blown into them for a while.
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Ha! I'll not complain the next time I'm in a bunker. We don't have any swimming pools, yet.
 
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