I have Googled this issue and see some interesting information. I am curious of the opinions here. If playing 6500 to 6700 yard courses, how long do you all feel you need to drive the ball, on average, to play scratch golf?
Driving Distance Relative to Index
NO clue. But, I'll venture a guess to Plus 275 and putt great!
SunnyWalker
Well-known member
I'd say about 270 or so
I would say around 275. But I think it is also dependent on how the course is set up, are we getting alot of roll in the fairways.
Not sure there is a specific distance. I think the better question is what is the approach distance you would need into each hole to play scratch and what average drive would be needed to get you to that position. For instance, I look to play my drives to 130 yards or so which is a comfortable PW. If it goes long, I can still play a full wedge in or if it comes up short, I can play a 9i or 8i. If I can't get to that range, then I have to rethink my tee box/course strategy.
That being said, my issue is not in lack fo distance but usually that I try to get to close, especially on 300 yard par 4s where reaching the green in 1 is just WAY WAY to tempting for me instead of going 6i + wedge.
That being said, my issue is not in lack fo distance but usually that I try to get to close, especially on 300 yard par 4s where reaching the green in 1 is just WAY WAY to tempting for me instead of going 6i + wedge.
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Probably relative to the rest of your game... great iron player doesn’t need to hit the drives as far.
I’d say around 250.
I’d say around 250.
Depends....I’ve seen guys drive it short but are wizards w/ their hybrids & long irons. Seen guys drive it long but can’t keep it in play. So many variables with it.
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- #9
I tend to agree with you. If you can consistently drive the ball 250, you can shoot even par. Of course, longer is better, but 250 is long enough.
I think it totally depends on someone's specific game and the course.
For discussion's sake - I average about 271 right now and can theoretically still play to scratch at 7380 (have done, and can do). So that, at 6600 would be, cross multiply... 242 yards.
I think that's plausible. Not easy, but workable.
For discussion's sake - I average about 271 right now and can theoretically still play to scratch at 7380 (have done, and can do). So that, at 6600 would be, cross multiply... 242 yards.
I think that's plausible. Not easy, but workable.
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- #11
It’s true that there are many aspects of the game where a strength can mitigate a weakness. However, generally, speaking, unless a person can drive the ball a certain length, there will be too much pressure on the other aspects of the game to go low.
I think there is a chart out there (by some organization) that spells out what distances off the tee should be to play certain yardages & tee boxes. Can’t recall it though.
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- #13
Yeah, I have seen that when I do a Google search.
I tend to be the later, which is why I am playing the driver I am playing now. I think I was getting a bit more distance with my old EF SZ setup but my accuracy suffered. By switching to the tour length LINQ shaft and a more forgiving head in the Cobra SZ, my fairway's hit has gone up already and my scores have already started to drop. Did I potentially give up some yards? Yup. Do I care as long as I am shooting better? Nope.
Yeah as I think about it more 250 yards would likely mean you can hit a 46* wedge about 115-120. So driver-wedge starts at 365-370 yards. 30* iron would then be about about 160-170 yards so about 410-420 for the end point of a mid iron and what is a reasonable length par 3.
For arguments let's use 6700 yards for a course. That would probably average to 400 yards for a par 4, 525 for par 5s and 150 for par 3s. Maybe fiddle with these a bit but it works out with a 10-4-4 configuration to be about 6700 yards. 250 yards off the tee results in probably having 2 of the par 5s at minimum being unreachable in 2 and likely only the longest of par 4s requiring a long club. Par 3s are likely on the short side of this but at 6700 there is likely not enough yardage on the card for a 230 par 3 without having a short par 4 or par 5 to make up for it. So yeah it's hard, but definitely doable to play scratch golf with a 250 yard drive... so what's my excuse?
For arguments let's use 6700 yards for a course. That would probably average to 400 yards for a par 4, 525 for par 5s and 150 for par 3s. Maybe fiddle with these a bit but it works out with a 10-4-4 configuration to be about 6700 yards. 250 yards off the tee results in probably having 2 of the par 5s at minimum being unreachable in 2 and likely only the longest of par 4s requiring a long club. Par 3s are likely on the short side of this but at 6700 there is likely not enough yardage on the card for a 230 par 3 without having a short par 4 or par 5 to make up for it. So yeah it's hard, but definitely doable to play scratch golf with a 250 yard drive... so what's my excuse?
Do I get to ask how personal this is? Are you trying to figure out where your goals are/could/should be with your own clubs and course(s)? You said you haven't been playing great recently, so are you trying to figure out if you're helping/hurting yourself at your current tees or ... ?
edit: That sounds nosey AF. Feel free to tell me to piss off. lol
edit: That sounds nosey AF. Feel free to tell me to piss off. lol
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- #18
It has nothing to do with me. I know I hit it plenty far to play scratch. Until I began struggling a few weeks ago, Arccos said I was driving it about 270 to 280. That is at elevation, but I think that would yield about 260 at sea level and that is long enough to play scratch. Your question doesn’t bother me, either.
It’s just golf talk. I think in general, people think that they drive it further than they do, so this is a fun discussion. I believe that somebody who truly drives it on average 250 yards at sea Level would be considered to be a pretty long hitter by the majority of players, but, of course, it is all relative.
It took me 20+ years of crushing the ball to figure out its not how far you hit it, its how far you have left to go that's more important. There was a time ( many years and many pounds ago ) where I would wind up and swing out of my shoes. No more. Now I am spending more time on sequencing and impact position to get a consistent carry distance.
I agree with you on the carry estimation for most golfers. Total yards is what you see when you walk up to your ball. You don't see where it landed most of the time which can lead to some inflated sense of distance. Realistically right now, I think my average carry distance is 265 to 270 on a decent strike. I have hit shots that carry up to 290 but that's definitely not the norm. I am ignoring total distance because thats a function of course and weather more so anything else. I will say that the 292 shot I hit hte other day was 292 carry and 291 total as it hit mud and spun back, but that's a different conversation and b*tch session.
Based on those distances, most courses around here from whites or blues ( Reg or back ) tees, I should have a shot at a par round. But that's when the rest of my game comes into play to bring me back to earth. As a buddy of mine said, I have a 2 handicap swing, a scratch hitter's drive, a 5 handicap iron game and putting game, and a 25 handicap wedge game.
You average them out and you get a 9 handicap.
I believe the average scratch player hits driver at least 275. The length takes pressure off other parts of your game particularly being able to reach par 5s in two and make birdies to make up for a bogey or two thrown in the mix.
I have a bit of experience with this. 10 years ago I was a scratch golfer. Back then I was average length among the golfers I played with and I hit driver between 270 and 280 figuring a carry of 250-255. PW was 130 yards, 8 iron a very comfortable 150 carry with more in reserve and so on. I took quite a bit of time off and had an illness which left me at least 30 yards shorter off the tee and about 12 yard shorter with a 6 iron. Last year I was hitting driver about 230, my I carried 7i 147 and that was about all I had. I played to a 4 last year. Admittedly I wasn't practicing as much so my short game wasn't quite as sharp as it used to be but at 6600-6700 yards I had no margin for error. No par 5s were within reach and 420 yard par 4s were driver, Heavenwood and if it stretched to 440 it was driver, 3W. On the long holes if I missed driver a little it would be 210-215 all in which meant that a 420 yard par 4 became driver 3 wood and if the hole was 440 I couldn't reach.
The other item that is over looked about distance is that having power in your swing aids your ability to recover. If I hit the ball in the rough and I was 170 yards from the green I have to try to dig a 5 iron out of the rough. If I hit it 20 yards longer off the tee and had more power to begin with I would be looking at 8 or 9i.
This is a long winded way to say even at 6600-6700 yards while there are some scratch golfers that don't hit the ball 270+ off the tee they are very rare.
I forgot to add that with distance you have to keep the ball between the trees. Scratch players don't take penalty strokes pretty much ever. You can't regularly take penalty strokes and play golf around par.
I have a bit of experience with this. 10 years ago I was a scratch golfer. Back then I was average length among the golfers I played with and I hit driver between 270 and 280 figuring a carry of 250-255. PW was 130 yards, 8 iron a very comfortable 150 carry with more in reserve and so on. I took quite a bit of time off and had an illness which left me at least 30 yards shorter off the tee and about 12 yard shorter with a 6 iron. Last year I was hitting driver about 230, my I carried 7i 147 and that was about all I had. I played to a 4 last year. Admittedly I wasn't practicing as much so my short game wasn't quite as sharp as it used to be but at 6600-6700 yards I had no margin for error. No par 5s were within reach and 420 yard par 4s were driver, Heavenwood and if it stretched to 440 it was driver, 3W. On the long holes if I missed driver a little it would be 210-215 all in which meant that a 420 yard par 4 became driver 3 wood and if the hole was 440 I couldn't reach.
The other item that is over looked about distance is that having power in your swing aids your ability to recover. If I hit the ball in the rough and I was 170 yards from the green I have to try to dig a 5 iron out of the rough. If I hit it 20 yards longer off the tee and had more power to begin with I would be looking at 8 or 9i.
This is a long winded way to say even at 6600-6700 yards while there are some scratch golfers that don't hit the ball 270+ off the tee they are very rare.
I forgot to add that with distance you have to keep the ball between the trees. Scratch players don't take penalty strokes pretty much ever. You can't regularly take penalty strokes and play golf around par.
- Thread starter
- #22
It took me 20+ years of crushing the ball to figure out its not how far you hit it, its how far you have left to go that's more important. There was a time ( many years and many pounds ago ) where I would wind up and swing out of my shoes. No more. Now I am spending more time on sequencing and impact position to get a consistent carry distance.
I agree with you on the carry estimation for most golfers. Total yards is what you see when you walk up to your ball. You don't see where it landed most of the time which can lead to some inflated sense of distance. Realistically right now, I think my average carry distance is 265 to 270 on a decent strike. I have hit shots that carry up to 290 but that's definitely not the norm. I am ignoring total distance because thats a function of course and weather more so anything else. I will say that the 292 shot I hit hte other day was 292 carry and 291 total as it hit mud and spun back, but that's a different conversation and b*tch session.
Based on those distances, most courses around here from whites or blues ( Reg or back ) tees, I should have a shot at a par round. But that's when the rest of my game comes into play to bring me back to earth. As a buddy of mine said, I have a 2 handicap swing, a scratch hitter's drive, a 5 handicap iron game and putting game, and a 25 handicap wedge game.
If you carry it 265 to 270, which I do not doubt, you are VERY long.
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- #23
Good post. No doubt that the longer you are, the higher your ceiling.
It took me 20+ years of crushing the ball to figure out its not how far you hit it, its how far you have left to go that's more important. There was a time ( many years and many pounds ago ) where I would wind up and swing out of my shoes. No more. Now I am spending more time on sequencing and impact position to get a consistent carry distance.
I agree with you on the carry estimation for most golfers. Total yards is what you see when you walk up to your ball. You don't see where it landed most of the time which can lead to some inflated sense of distance. Realistically right now, I think my average carry distance is 265 to 270 on a decent strike. I have hit shots that carry up to 290 but that's definitely not the norm. I am ignoring total distance because thats a function of course and weather more so anything else. I will say that the 292 shot I hit hte other day was 292 carry and 291 total as it hit mud and spun back, but that's a different conversation and b*tch session.
Based on those distances, most courses around here from whites or blues ( Reg or back ) tees, I should have a shot at a par round. But that's when the rest of my game comes into play to bring me back to earth. As a buddy of mine said, I have a 2 handicap swing, a scratch hitter's drive, a 5 handicap iron game and putting game, and a 25 handicap wedge game.
Your point on carry distance is a good one. When I figured my average carry distance was 250-255 if I had to carry water off the tee I tried to not have to cover more than 235 in case there was a slight miss. I wasn't quite as concerned if it was carrying a fairway bunker as that was more easily recoverable.
ITs a big deal because course conditions can really inflate expectations and golf is not a straight line sport. If I hit a ball say 250 and it gets 50 yards of roll out, sure I hit it 300 total, but unless the fairway straight down range, then there's a turn somewhere in there and most fairways are not 50+ yards wide. There's a hole on a local course that is a great example. Everyone I know hits driver. Its a 400 yard par 4 uphill dogleg left. At the dog leg ( about 200 out ) is big set of trees on the left hand side. The best shot is to sling a draw around the trees and straight into the teeth of hte uphill. If you hit it straight though, you are 40-50 yards off the fairway into the trees. During the spring, I'll hit driver because it will normally come to rest either right side of fairway or just off. Very manageable. If it its mid or late summer, I'll sometimes hit iron because driver and even 5w's will roll out even though my carry point is roughly the same.
I start with Carry and then figure out what my total will end up given the conditions. Then pick the club from there. Seems to have helped minimize penalties and punch outs so far.