Bendable hosels on metalwoods.

[RetiredBoomer]

Boutique companies like Wishon, Henry-Griffitts, and Nakashima have bendable hosels on metalwoods--drivers and fairways alike.

The major OEMS, which have much bigger technology development budgets, do not.

I find it frustrating that the major brands have so much technology built into their clubs and are so limited in fitting for loft, lie, and face angles.
You go to an expensive fitting process and they're most fitting you for a shaft. That's well and good.

To get flatter lie angles and more open face angles, however, you have to get strong lofts to go along with them.
Apparently, only high swing speed players have sound swings.
The weaker lofted models are all designed for players who cast over the top.

The next major OEM who makes metalwoods for seniors, juniors, women, and other slower swingspeed players
who actually have a little game
will be the first in a long time to do so.

The tech people do a great job, but the marketing people don't let them do it for everybody.
I wish just one major OEM engineer would admit to this being true, but they always dodge the subject.

 

[radiman]

Boutique companies like Wishon, Henry-Griffitts, and Nakashima have bendable hosels on metalwoods--drivers and fairways alike.

The major OEMS, which have much bigger technology development budgets, do not.

I find it frustrating that the major brands have so much technology built into their clubs and are so limited in fitting for loft, lie, and face angles.
You go to an expensive fitting process and they're most fitting you for a shaft. That's well and good.

To get flatter lie angles and more open face angles, however, you have to get strong lofts to go along with them.
Apparently, only high swing speed players have sound swings.
The weaker lofted models are all designed for players who cast over the top.

The next major OEM who makes metalwoods for seniors, juniors, women, and other slower swingspeed players
who actually have a little game
will be the first in a long time to do so.

The tech people do a great job, but the marketing people don't let them do it for everybody.
I wish just one major OEM engineer would admit to this being true, but they always dodge the subject.

Callaway just released a line of fairway ls that are all fixed hosels. I don't know how flat you need these to be. But, it's not like there aren't options out there. I haven't had a wood bent in I can't remember when. But, I'd imagine these can be bent just like the good old days.

They're packed full of tech and are a dream to hit.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

Callaway just released a line of fairway ls that are all fixed hosels. I don't know how flat you need these to be. But, it's not like there aren't options out there. I haven't had a wood bent in I can't remember when. But, I'd imagine these can be bent just like the good old days.

They're packed full of tech and are a dream to hit.

Packed with tech is true, but...

believe it or not, there aren't options out there.

I've dug pretty deeply into it and I wouldn't start a thread about it if it weren't true.

Just for an example, check out the lie angles on the Mavrik Sub Zero drivers and fairways.
Now check them out, club for club, on the regular Mavrik and Mavrik Max which offer higher lofts.
You'll see that they made them more upright for the "regular folks."

This is true all across the spectrum. It's maddening.

 

[radiman]

Packed with tech is true, but...

believe it or not, there aren't options out there.

Just for an example, check out the lie angles on the Mavrik Sub Zero drivers and fairways.
Now check them out, club for club, on the regular Mavrik and Mavrik Max which offer higher lofts.
You'll see that they made them more upright for the "regular folks."

This is true all across the spectrum. It's maddening.

Then bend them flat. That's my point. It's an old school fixed hosel.

I know for a fact that they can bend the hybrids. Wouldn't be surprised that they can do so for a fairway wood.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

Then bend them flat. That's my point. It's an old school fixed hosel.

I know for a fact that they can bend the hybrids. Wouldn't be surprised that they can do so for a fairway wood.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

 

[JB]

The next major OEM who makes metalwoods for seniors, juniors, women, and other slower swingspeed players
who actually have a little game
will be the first in a long time to do so.

The tech people do a great job, but the marketing people don't let them do it for everybody.
I wish just one major OEM engineer would admit to this being true, but they always dodge the subject.

I could not disagree with this more.
Golf companies know who their customers are and there are options all over the place for moderate swing speeds. Heck, XXIO just released this very thing and then added to that with a second line in the X.

One can increase and decrease lie angle with length in many woods, and there are some woods that can actually be adjusted, if someone knows what they are doing.

 

[vdubtx]

Is this gonna be another why can't golf be like in the old days thread?

 

[JB]

I want to add, according to just about every expert on club fitting, lie angle with a driver will have minimal impact on direction because it is directly related to loft. Compound that with shaft droop and you are left with a tiny amount of misdirection at the most.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

You're an excellent defender of the OEM's, JB.
Loyalty is a virtue.

But my example with the Mavriks tells the whole story.
It's what they all do.

You shouldn't have to get custom fit if you know the fit metrics that you like.
You should be able to just order what you want.

 

[JB]

You're an excellent defender of the OEM's, JB.
Loyalty is a virtue.

Please stop with that. Its not a defender of anybody, its a defender of fact and making sure THPers have correct info.

If you choose to ignore that lie angle doesnt impact misdirection due to loft correlation that is a decision you can make, so the option exists to get a bendable hosel or shorten to get what you want.

 

[KEV]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk when I ask this but is there any part of the modern game and equipment that you like?

 

[Stryker]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk when I ask this but is there any part of the modern game and equipment that you like?

 

[aljaklaw]

lots of options for adjustable hosel fairways and hybrids.

sometimes you just have to wait a year for the latest and greatest to come with it.

 

[Snickerdog]

I think you need to realize that yesteryear is gone, it is a new age and the equipment has grown as the game has grown. It is better for all of us. I don't want to play my old Ping Eye 2 irons anymore. I want to enjoy the game and the distances I am hitting and the equipment that give me so much forgiveness.

 

[OITW]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk when I ask this but is there any part of the modern game and equipment that you like?

I think the OEMs are doing a great job getting the tech into conforming equipment with a lack of industry standards.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk when I ask this but is there any part of the modern game and equipment that you like?

Agronomy?

 

[SquirrelyDave]

Agronomy?

Really Agronomy is one of the biggest factors in the modern game. So...probably not. ?

 

[NoShanks]

are you having a hard time adjusting to the modern technology in golf equipment?

 

[Tenputt]

@RetiredBoomer, aside from the options available that permit lie adjustment, why not find a good club equipment person and have your lies on your woods adjusted or do some research as to which ones are bendable. I know for a fact that some of them are, because I have had it done to some of my equipment in the past. My local Club Champion has done it. Another resource you might reach out to is Will at The Peoples Clubs, who many on this forum use for club reshafts or to build a new set of clubs.

One thing I have always found in life is that we usually will find what pleases us or what frustrates us, depending upon where our focus is. There are sure a lot of great players out there who don’t have high swing speeds who seem to be able to find modern golf equipment that they enjoy.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk when I ask this but is there any part of the modern game and equipment that you like?

I do like almost all of the new tech.
I dislike much of the fitment metrics (loft, lie, face angle, length, whatever ) where more options could be offered even with the new tech.
The new tech makes it harder to alter existing options in a shop.

Subjectively, I think some of the cosmetics don't have to be as busy looking as they are, but they wouldn't pimp out the clubs like that if doing that didn't sell.

Again, look at the Mavrik metals for example. There's no reason why Mavrik Sub Zero lie and face angles can't be offered with Mavric Max loft choices.
They don't do it because they feel that most slower swing speed players cast over the top.

My swing is a little slower because I've played for over fifty seasons.
I still have an inside-out, late release draw swing like I did twenty-five years ago.
I still need the flatter lie angles and square or slightly open face angles as on the Sub Zero model.
I now need the more generous lofts of the Max model.
More so with a draw swing that hits the ball a little bit lower anyway.

The Sub Zero 5-wood is fine because it makes a great "longer fairway metal" for me at 18º. My "3-wood" if you like club numbers.
There's nothing there for a more lofted fairway metal, however, without getting the upright lies and in some cases, hook faces.

But I'm just using Callaway as an example.
This thinking is prevalent throughout the industry.

In order to understand what I'm talking about, you have to actually look at the numbers that I'm referencing
rather than just read "get off my lawn" regardless of what I actually post.

 

[radiman]

I do like almost all of the new tech.
I dislike much of the fitment metrics (loft, lie, face angle, length, whatever ) where more options could be offered even with the new tech.
The new tech makes it harder to alter existing options in a shop.

Subjectively, I think some of the cosmetics don't have to be as busy looking as they are, but they wouldn't pimp out the clubs like that if doing that didn't sell.

Again, look at the Mavrik metals for example. There's no reason why Mavrik Sub Zero lie and face angles can't be offered with Mavric Max loft choices.
They don't do it because they feel that most slower swing speed players cast over the top.

My swing is a little slower because I've played for over fifty seasons.
I still have an inside-out, late release draw swing like I did twenty-five years ago.
I still need the flatter lie angles and square or slightly open face angles as on the Sub Zero model.
I now need the more generous lofts of the Max model.
More so with a draw swing that hits the ball a little bit lower anyway.

The Sub Zero 5-wood is fine because it makes a great "longer fairway metal" for me at 18º. My "3-wood" if you like club numbers.
There's nothing there for a more lofted fairway metal, however, without getting the upright lies and in some cases, hook faces.

But I'm just using Callaway as an example.
This thinking is prevalent throughout the industry.

In order to understand what I'm talking about, you have to actually look at the numbers that I'm referencing
rather than just read "get off my lawn" regardless of what I actually post.

But you can get those other metals bent as you please. That was your initial question was it not? What options are there available that can be bent? Is there a competent club builder around you? Buy the latest and greatest high lofted fairway wood and have it bent to your specifications.

It's like you are just glancing over that fact. I don't understand it.

 

[Scorp]

Retiredboomer, you should check out Callaway. According to their fitting room podcast, the fitters are able to bend the hosels of the Mavriks to loft and lie angles... so maybe you can get what you're looking for.

You can check out the first 2 episodes of 2020 of the fitting room where the fitters are talking about the new Mavrik clubs and how they fit them to people.

 

[buckeyewalt]

I do like almost all of the new tech.
I dislike much of the fitment metrics (loft, lie, face angle, length, whatever ) where more options could be offered even with the new tech.
The new tech makes it harder to alter existing options in a shop.

Subjectively, I think some of the cosmetics don't have to be as busy looking as they are, but they wouldn't pimp out the clubs like that if doing that didn't sell.

Again, look at the Mavrik metals for example. There's no reason why Mavrik Sub Zero lie and face angles can't be offered with Mavric Max loft choices.
They don't do it because they feel that most slower swing speed players cast over the top.

My swing is a little slower because I've played for over fifty seasons.
I still have an inside-out, late release draw swing like I did twenty-five years ago.
I still need the flatter lie angles and square or slightly open face angles as on the Sub Zero model.
I now need the more generous lofts of the Max model.
More so with a draw swing that hits the ball a little bit lower anyway.

The Sub Zero 5-wood is fine because it makes a great "longer fairway metal" for me at 18º. My "3-wood" if you like club numbers.
There's nothing there for a more lofted fairway metal, however, without getting the upright lies and in some cases, hook faces.

But I'm just using Callaway as an example.
This thinking is prevalent throughout the industry.

In order to understand what I'm talking about, you have to actually look at the numbers that I'm referencing
rather than just read "get off my lawn" regardless of what I actually post.

Hey Boomer I think I see what you are saying and like @radiman said, buy a set of clubs and have them changed to your specs. It almost sounds like you are trying to sway the OEM's to your thinking and that won't happen. It's like buying a tailored suit. You love the suit, the fit, the material, but need it tapered some. The tailor would be more than happy to do it, but the suit maker won't make a tapered suit just for you. It would be great if we could all buy clubs off the rack and have them fit 100%, but that just wont happen. You get a product, and if it needs alterations to perform a club fitter would be more than happy to do it for you.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

But you can get those other metals bent as you please. That was your initial question was it not? What options are there available that can be bent? Is there a competent club builder around you? Buy the latest and greatest high lofted fairway wood and have it bent to your specifications.

It's like you are just glancing over that fact. I don't understand it.

No, I appreciate your comments. I just get conflicting comments on the bendability. If they are indeed bendable, problem solved.

Barring that,
the solution is taking the "player's version" weakest lofted fairway metal as your long fairway metal (5-wood as 3-wood)
and resorting to a hybrid for your "lofted" metal.
Some of them (hybrids) are flat enough and with rocker soles that you can go a half-inch or so long with them.

 

[Styles]

Titleist surefit adjusts for lie.