Club Champion Iron fitting... want some thoughts

[Yahash]

So I had a fitting at club champion on Tuesday. Overall experience was great, very knowledgeable and interesting. Given I got to do it for free, it was worth my time to drive almost 2 hours to get there.

Here is where I am struggling.

Based on the data, moving from my Project X 6.0 to the LZ 5.5 shaft looks to be a better fit especially given my drop in swing speed over the course of the fitting (peaked on 6i at 86-89 and dropped to 83-85). That part was great and very informative. The change in going from 1/2+ to Standard was not a big surprise either.

What got me was the head recommendation.... TM M4.... I have been more of a players iron person (like the look and feel) and while I know i need bit more forgiveness I have a few challenges given what he had me hit. What I am looking for is less dispersion, and not lofted distance. I was clear with the fitter that I really dont care about the distance that I would gladly hit something on par with my current distance with a bit more forgiveness. This brings me to my challenge.....

Mizuno JPX 900 Forged gave me the best grouping and was the last head i tried (so my swing was tired, slow, and at its worst). My dispersion even with a bad mis hit... was 13'L to 28'R (and that right was my bad open face miss). Distance was also more consistent as well, while obviously shorter than the M4. (JPX PW is 45* my current gamer is 47* and M4 is 43.5*) I did see some distance gain with the JPX, and it felt familiar and good as well. The shaft felt great! (same shaft for both M4 and JPX).

I know everyone says play what makes you happy and you are comfortable with, and I dont mind stepping into that Player look with more GI tech. I can post screen shots from the Trackman as well.

I also had some methodological issues with some parts of the fitting. (Shaft none)... Head... He removed the misses only form the M4 (since I hit it the most) so the data was sanitized. I did ask to hit the M4 when we were done a gain to baseline it against my tired swing (of the shots that showed up on the trackman I didn't see it getting me any big boost over the JPX).

I will say this, I would go back to do Driver or something else in the future, so I had an overall positive experience. My only other fitting was at The Kingdom with TMAG. (I wish I could get into the Granddaddy of course - always trying :banana: ).

So my question to you all... what do you think? My gut tells me to get over to TMAG and hit the P series or maybe pickup a used set of JPX 900 Forged (since the LZ 5.5 is stock) get them 2* upright and play it. One other thought... keep playing the RSI TP and re-shaft to the LZ 5.5. I really hate the idea of the jacked lofts in the M4 - makes my 6i a 190+ club, and presents a ton of issues at the bottom of my bag.....

Link to trackman Data for the session - https://mytrackman.com/system/dynam...6&sgos[]=719b89bc-091c-471d-9a72-f831401480a4

 

[DMoney79]

Hard to beat Mizuno JPX Forged clubs great set of irons. If I didn’t get the AP3’s at the Titleist event I would be gaming the new Mizuno line. I have never been a Taylormade irons guy so I’m biased, but a sub 30* 7 iron is not for me. I don’t want a 200yd 7 iron not for me. I hear the P series is some of the best irons Taylormade had made so might compare them to the Mizuno.


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[DMoney79]

Oh and the LZ shafts are hard to beat it came down to those and my DG AMT for my Titleist irons trajectory of the long irons was the difference


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[mancest]

If the dispersion was better in the Mizuno front and back, then I would go that way but that is me. If you are going to hate looking at a club (the M4) you aren't likely to play it for long. Or maybe that is just me.

Also, you can probably get the Mizunos new for the same or cheaper than getting the PX LZ shafts/grips and getting them installed (unless you do your own club work.). I found an 8 club set of new JPX 900 for under $600 shipped and I bet they can be found for a bit less if you hunt around.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

If the dispersion was better in the Mizuno front and back, then I would go that way but that is me. If you are going to hate looking at a club (the M4) you aren't likely to play it for long. Or maybe that is just me.

Also, you can probably get the Mizunos new for the same or cheaper than getting the PX LZ shafts/grips and getting them installed (unless you do your own club work.). I found an 8 club set of new JPX 900 for under $600 shipped and I bet they can be found for a bit less if you hunt around.

Exactly this. I go with dispersion all day. Mizzys would win for me


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[TM_Bobby723]

Well, the Mizuno sounds like you had the best results with….but since you mentioned the TM P series, you may want to give the P790 a run. They're more of a players look with some game improvement design to them, too.

You can't ever go wrong with a set of Mizuno irons, though….

 

[Yahash]

Well, the Mizuno sounds like you had the best results with….but since you mentioned the TM P series, you may want to give the P790 a run. They're more of a players look with some game improvement design to them, too.

You can't ever go wrong with a set of Mizuno irons, though….

I specifically asked about them, as they had them. I was told it was too much club for me. I find that statement to be inconsistent with the fact he thought I was still fit decently to my RSI TP irons. Has me scratching my head and wondering what I am missing.

 

[Mark_UK]

Club Champion Iron fitting... want some thoughts

You didn’t like the look of the M4 so regardless of how they performed, they are not the clubs for you. End of story. I got suckered into playing a set of TM tour burners once when I started to get fixated with smash factor. Out in the course, it took less than 18 holes to realize I hated them!


#FiberLaunch

 

[Yahash]

You didn’t like the look of the M4 so regardless of how they performed, they are not the clubs for you. End of story. I got suckered into playing a set of TM tour burners once when I started to get fixated with smash factor. Out in the course, it took less than 18 holes to realize I hated them!


#FiberLaunch

I would agree. While they look cool, and I am generally a big TM fan, the clunky look and extra- offset just earn appealing to my eye.

Where I am confused, is that CC is known for great fittings, and they know their stuff. The guy even said that it could come down to some looks/feel preference at the beginning. In the end, I felt like he was pushing the M4, even with my objections fully stated and talking about the data. To note, the first head he put on was an M4 as well. I do find it interesting that when he asked me what i was interested in looking at, I mentioned Callaway... never hit one... It was M4, AP1, CBX, JPX 900.... Cleveland was the only one i had not mentioned... but I talked AP3.

 

[Space Bandito]

P790 too much club for you? I disagree strongly. I just came from a fitting at CC last friday, and my fitter asked me what I liked, and what I didn't like. There was no sense that he felt some clubs may work better than other for me - he let me see for myself. I hit everything from 718 MBs to M3s (and about 30 clubs in between.)


Back to your original topic - I say forget the M4. It's hideous, and it seems you feel something similar.

 

[Yahash]

P790 too much club for you? I disagree strongly. I just came from a fitting at CC last friday, and my fitter asked me what I liked, and what I didn't like. There was no sense that he felt some clubs may work better than other for me - he let me see for myself. I hit everything from 718 MBs to M3s (and about 30 clubs in between.)


Back to your original topic - I say forget the M4. It's hideous, and it seems you feel something similar.

Seems we had very different experiences. I think once he heard my HCP he put me in the needs GI category only. Still RSI TP not too much club and still a decent fit... yet P790 out of my league to play... lol

For ref. This link should show the trackman data.... https://mytrackman.com/system/dynamic-report?r=035949bf-34d0-46b0-adf2-25ef8c58edbc&dm=t&nd=true&op=true&sro=false&do=true&to=true&vo=true&cdo=true&ot=c&ov=d&mp%5B%5D=ClubSpeed&mp%5B%5D=BallSpeed&mp%5B%5D=SmashFactor&mp%5B%5D=LaunchAngle&mp%5B%5D=SpinRate&mp%5B%5D=Carry&mp%5B%5D=Total&mp%5B%5D=SideTotal&mp%5B%5D=AttackAngle&mp%5B%5D=FaceToPath&u=Us&v=dispersion&sgos%5B%5D=1157c1f9-6379-4ba7-bb0e-ee97ff5faf16&sgos%5B%5D=719b89bc-091c-471d-9a72-f831401480a4

Honestly not sure if the fact that it was a freebie fitting played into it at all...

 

[mancest]

I would agree. While they look cool, and I am generally a big TM fan, the clunky look and extra- offset just earn appealing to my eye.

Where I am confused, is that CC is known for great fittings, and they know their stuff. The guy even said that it could come down to some looks/feel preference at the beginning. In the end, I felt like he was pushing the M4, even with my objections fully stated and talking about the data. To note, the first head he put on was an M4 as well. I do find it interesting that when he asked me what i was interested in looking at, I mentioned Callaway... never hit one... It was M4, AP1, CBX, JPX 900.... Cleveland was the only one i had not mentioned... but I talked AP3.

Sorry, but you got a bad fitting in my opinion. If you said you wanted to hit a certain club or brand of club and he didn't have you even try it.... that is not OK.

 

[Yahash]

Sorry, but you got a bad fitting in my opinion. If you said you wanted to hit a certain club or brand of club and he didn't have you even try it.... that is not OK.

Well the good news is it only cost me the gas and time... and it gives me something to compare against. This may be why I am so conflicted and even looking over the data, the most consistent shaft wasn't the Lz 5.5. it was the PXI 5.5....

This is why i bring it to y'all as I dont want to just be ignorant or missing something... aka internet golfer extraordinaire... lol

 

[mancest]

Well the good news is it only cost me the gas and time... and it gives me something to compare against. This may be why I am so conflicted and even looking over the data, the most consistent shaft wasn't the Lz 5.5. it was the PXI 5.5....

This is why i bring it to y'all as I dont want to just be ignorant or missing something... aka internet golfer extraordinaire... lol

What was the clubhead that was paired with the PXi 5.5 that is brown color? If you look at the carry data (which is all you really want with irons right?) that IS MONEY. I mean, less than 8 yards front to back and less than 15 yards left to right... Was that the JPX 900? Not sure about the callaway, but unless he deleted a bunch of shots out, that is a fantastic combination and quite a bit improved over all other options IMHO, only concern is that the spin might be a little low to hold greens (high of 5700 low of 3900).

I am just an internet hacker that has done some fittings and loves data so take everything I type with a bucket of salt, but that combo is so much better than the others it is crazy to me. When I first clicked the link it had total distance, but with irons (and probably for most clubs) carry is king so that is what I would be looking at.

 

[Yahash]

What was the clubhead that was paired with the PXi 5.5 that is brown color? If you look at the carry data (which is all you really want with irons right?) that IS MONEY. I mean, less than 8 yards front to back and less than 15 yards left to right... Was that the JPX 900? Not sure about the callaway, but unless he deleted a bunch of shots out, that is a fantastic combination and quite a bit improved over all other options IMHO, only concern is that the spin might be a little low to hold greens (high of 5700 low of 3900).

I am just an internet hacker that has done some fittings and loves data so take everything I type with a bucket of salt, but that combo is so much better than the others it is crazy to me. When I first clicked the link it had total distance, but with irons (and probably for most clubs) carry is king so that is what I would be looking at.

All shafts were with M4. The heads were all on lz 5.5.

I agree with you on the shaft and on carry. I even told him 6i down is scoring for me, so I want spin and stopping power.

Like you said - bad fitting.

 

[tahoebum]

It's very difficult to get a proper fitting in one session considering all the shaft/head combinations available. Fatigue and swing variability are huge factors as well. I was fit professionally twice into lighter stiff flex iron shafts only to discover later that my dispersion is much better with the much heavier and stiffer DG X100's.

 

[mancest]

All shafts were with M4. The heads were all on lz 5.5.

I agree with you on the shaft and on carry. I even told him 6i down is scoring for me, so I want spin and stopping power.

Like you said - bad fitting.

Just weird. If I was you I would see if you could test out the Pxi 5.5 with the JPX or another head you liked to see how that works out. A little more launch/spin which I would expect (but I have been wrong 2 or 3 times so for in this life) from the Mizuno's could be really damn good.

So did you only hit a few heads? That is strange... how much time was the fitting?

 

[leftshot]

First of all John, the dispersion is king when it comes to irons. So I'm right there with you. Those are the clubs you'll most often use on approach shots to the green. You'll pick up strokes with a smaller dispersion.

Some guys won't play a club if they don't like the looks. You need to decide whether you are that guy or not. If you are, it's really: Discussion over. I think you'd be very happy with the Mizuno JPX.

If you really are after minimum dispersion regardless of what it looks like (I'd swing a wart if it got me closer to the pin) then we've got something to talk about.

Dispersion is about both length and left to right. I noticed your smash factor was both below optimum and variable and that translates to variability in distance. 20 yards is often the difference between being on the green or in a hazard. This also may be why the fitter was steering you toward a more forgiving clubhead. I noticed the Trackman data for PXI-5.5 had a very small dispersion in all directions. If I understood right that shaft was swung with the M4 head. Anyway, a tight dispersion like that is what is desirable. For whatever reason, your smash factor was very consistent on those swings. Sometimes that is the club/shaft combination. Sometimes it's something else. A good fitter looks at stuff like that, but since I wasn't there to see for myself I can't comment further.

 

[Yahash]

First of all John, the dispersion is king when it comes to irons. So I'm right there with you. Those are the clubs you'll most often use on approach shots to the green. You'll pick up strokes with a smaller dispersion.

Some guys won't play a club if they don't like the looks. You need to decide whether you are that guy or not. If you are, it's really: Discussion over. I think you'd be very happy with the Mizuno JPX.

If you really are after minimum dispersion regardless of what it looks like (I'd swing a wart if it got me closer to the pin) then we've got something to talk about.

Dispersion is about both length and left to right. I noticed your smash factor was both below optimum and variable and that translates to variability in distance. 20 yards is often the difference between being on the green or in a hazard. This also may be why the fitter was steering you toward a more forgiving clubhead. I noticed the Trackman data for PXI-5.5 had a very small dispersion in all directions. If I understood right that shaft was swung with the M4 head. Anyway, a tight dispersion like that is what is desirable. For whatever reason, your smash factor was very consistent on those swings. Sometimes that is the club/shaft combination. Sometimes it's something else. A good fitter looks at stuff like that, but since I wasn't there to see for myself I can't comment further.

I can get used to looking at a wart if the data supports it and I understand it.

I didn’t notice the dispersion on the PXi shaft during the fitting, we blew through it pretty quick. From an on the spot feel, I noticed the LZ and JPX changes. My issue with M4 isn’t visual, it’s jacked lofts. it would be a whole bag change for me rather than a minor adjustment.

 

[Yahash]

Just weird. If I was you I would see if you could test out the Pxi 5.5 with the JPX or another head you liked to see how that works out. A little more launch/spin which I would expect (but I have been wrong 2 or 3 times so for in this life) from the Mizuno's could be really damn good.

So did you only hit a few heads? That is strange... how much time was the fitting?

I agree. Finding a solid shaft is a big bonus. So it’s just maximizing that with the head. More fittings and combos to try.

All the data is there on what I hit. He wrapped it up 30 minutes early - was scheduled for 90 minutes.

 

[2BFAST]

What is your HCP btw? I know your profile deal says 27 but that's not always accurate for members.

 

[Yahash]

What is your HCP btw? I know your profile deal says 27 but that's not always accurate for members.

It’s 24.4 and dropping. Mostly tee box and <60 yd shots are keeping me above 18.

 

[2BFAST]

It’s 24.4 and dropping. Mostly tee box and <60 yd shots are keeping me above 18.

Yeah no problem at all. I asked cause im betting he was like well I need to get this guy in the most forgiving club I can which is why I assume he pushed the M4s. Again, not agreeing with that reasoning but that's what im assuming.

 

[Iceman!]

It's very difficult to get a proper fitting in one session considering all the shaft/head combinations available. Fatigue and swing variability are huge factors as well. I was fit professionally twice into lighter stiff flex iron shafts only to discover later that my dispersion is much better with the much heavier and stiffer DG X100's.

First of all John, the dispersion is king when it comes to irons. So I'm right there with you. Those are the clubs you'll most often use on approach shots to the green. You'll pick up strokes with a smaller dispersion.

Some guys won't play a club if they don't like the looks. You need to decide whether you are that guy or not. If you are, it's really: Discussion over. I think you'd be very happy with the Mizuno JPX.

If you really are after minimum dispersion regardless of what it looks like (I'd swing a wart if it got me closer to the pin) then we've got something to talk about.

Dispersion is about both length and left to right. I noticed your smash factor was both below optimum and variable and that translates to variability in distance. 20 yards is often the difference between being on the green or in a hazard. This also may be why the fitter was steering you toward a more forgiving club head. I noticed the Trackman data for PXI-5.5 had a very small dispersion in all directions. If I understood right that shaft was swung with the M4 head. Anyway, a tight dispersion like that is what is desirable. For whatever reason, your smash factor was very consistent on those swings. Sometimes that is the club/shaft combination. Sometimes it's something else. A good fitter looks at stuff like that, but since I wasn't there to see for myself I can't comment further.

Yahash, since you asked for thoughts, I'll give mine. I agree with tahoebum that fatigue and swing variability are huge factors - and in your case the best statistical combo match appears to have come later in your fitting. Love to see the stats on the PXI-5.5 with you being fresh not some what "Gassed". I've been through a couple of CC fittings - even your nerves wear you down.
My recent Iron fitting was a little different in that I had the clubs already, we just need to find the right club/shaft combo. In your case, the fitter is trying both.

With that being said - WOW those PXI-5.5 stats are to die for. I just look at my Rogue X fitting report, my dispersion is nothing close to yours. I'd take those stats that all day.
If the "Jacked Lofts" give you better results, why not use them to your advantage? Allow me to suggest that it could be, that with your swing as it is with mine, you need a more lofted club because of the way you come into the ball.
I will say that the JPX gave you more spin and less roll out that the M4, so that is something that would have to be looked at again. Sometime with the high lofted irons, there is a trade off between spin and distance.

I do think that having the fitting for $0 had something to do with your experience. With a paid fitting, you have a Fitting Guarantee that if you find that the combination chosen for you doesn't work, they will re-do the fitting.
In your case with it being free, there is no recourse. Not to say the fitter did a bad job - It just MAY have been more thorough with a paid fitting (and that is just me talk from Life Experience, nothing more.)


Good luck with your decision and I'm looking forward to following along.

 

[Yahash]

Yahash, since you asked for thoughts, I'll give mine. I agree with tahoebum that fatigue and swing variability are huge factors - and in your case the best statistical combo match appears to have come later in your fitting. Love to see the stats on the PXI-5.5 with you being fresh not some what "Gassed". I've been through a couple of CC fittings - even your nerves wear you down.
My recent Iron fitting was a little different in that I had the clubs already, we just need to find the right club/shaft combo. In your case, the fitter is trying both.

With that being said - WOW those PXI-5.5 stats are to die for. I just look at my Rogue X fitting report, my dispersion is nothing close to yours. I'd take those stats that all day.
If the "Jacked Lofts" give you better results, why not use them to your advantage? Allow me to suggest that it could be, that with your swing as it is with mine, you need a more lofted club because of the way you come into the ball.
I will say that the JPX gave you more spin and less roll out that the M4, so that is something that would have to be looked at again. Sometime with the high lofted irons, there is a trade off between spin and distance.

I do think that having the fitting for $0 had something to do with your experience. With a paid fitting, you have a Fitting Guarantee that if you find that the combination chosen for you doesn't work, they will re-do the fitting.
In your case with it being free, there is no recourse. Not to say the fitter did a bad job - It just MAY have been more thorough with a paid fitting (and that is just me talk from Life Experience, nothing more.)


Good luck with your decision and I'm looking forward to following along.

This is why i asked!! thank you for the thoughts.

I have historically de-lofted clubs, so jacked lofts are just that. My Attack Angle is ok and close to the PGA average for a 6I (i try to use the PGA Average as a baseline - nothing more). I agree tho, there is a reason a lot of lofts have moved up for the average golfer, especially if the attack angle isn't optimal.

They got paid for the fitting, just not by me. Amex flipped the bill, but I agree it probably played into things along with my HCP. I learned a lot, and having you guys all look at the data and put in feedback is even more valuable. I need to find the time to get to a PGASuperStore or Edwin Watts and look at the PXI JPX combo, rehit the M4, and try out Callaway and the TM P series.