Issues with new Apex w/ Nippon 850 vs Steelfibers i95s

[Chef23]

I recently got fitted at a Cool Clubs franchise and purchased a Set of Callaway Apexes with Nippon 850 in stiff flex. Interestingly enough I did a free fitting at TrueSpec last fall and got fitted into the same shaft. During the fitting I hit the clubs great picked up some yardage which I was looking for and love the feel and look. My previous clubs are (I still have them) Ping i200s with Steelfiber i95s in stiff flex. The Apexes are 1/4” longer and 1* more upright. They were 2* more upright and I had them flattened a degree already.

I have played quite a few rounds with the clubs now and while my swing has been a bit up and down I am consistently missing left with them. This is the opposite of my history and I have enough history with them to realize it isn’t an occasional issue but something that seems more consistent. I had the same issue with a set of Srixon 545s that I first had Recoil 95s in regular flex then a set of XCalibers in stiff flex. I always seemed to miss left with those and came back to the Pings.

I am playing on Wednesday and am thinking of throwing the Pings back in the bag to see how they behave. After that I will likely go back to the fitter to revisit the shafts. While the shafts are great in the fitting they aren’t translating to the golf course. I have the fit guarantee with Cool Clubs so I am sure they will take care of me. The issue is fit during the fitting vs performance during the round. I love the extra distance and everything else about the clubs but I keep missing greens left which is putting a lot of pressure on my short game.

 

[Scott F]

If it were me, I wouldn’t blame the clubs. Sounds like something that can be fixed on the range.

 

[Chef23]

If it were me, I wouldn’t blame the clubs.

I generally don't but I have been struggling with this since the first time I hit them on the range and the first round on the course. I had the same issue with other clubs last year and early this year and when I went back to the Pings my accuracy returned.

I am a good golfer and while not a long hitter am generally pretty straight. I am a pretty big believe that at this point in my life and golf game I shouldn't have to change my swing to have new clubs work well for me.

Yesterday I figured out what I think had been the issue with my swing (swaying off the ball) and even after that I continued to miss left with the irons on what felt like good swings.

I will likely work a lesson in as well but right now the two pros I would use are scheduling 4-5 weeks out and I have a lot of golf to play before then.

 

[Chef23]

In case anyone has any additional thoughts. I am not sure I am going to get to the range today but I am playing tomorrow and thinking about playing the Pings and seeing how they do. This would be to get some information for a visit to the fitter.

 

[GolfMT36]

Get a static weight measurement of both clubs, and also get a SW measurement for both. In most cases, a directional miss like yours is influenced by the weight, either static or SW or both. Far less likely that it's a shaft profile issue or even a lie angle issue.
However may also want to check your lie with a sharpie line test and just make sure on that one.

 

[mikeg_74]

I recently got fitted at a Cool Clubs franchise and purchased a Set of Callaway Apexes with Nippon 850 in stiff flex. Interestingly enough I did a free fitting at TrueSpec last fall and got fitted into the same shaft. During the fitting I hit the clubs great picked up some yardage which I was looking for and love the feel and look. My previous clubs are (I still have them) Ping i200s with Steelfiber i95s in stiff flex. The Apexes are 1/4” longer and 1* more upright. They were 2* more upright and I had them flattened a degree already.

I have played quite a few rounds with the clubs now and while my swing has been a bit up and down I am consistently missing left with them. This is the opposite of my history and I have enough history with them to realize it isn’t an occasional issue but something that seems more consistent. I had the same issue with a set of Srixon 545s that I first had Recoil 95s in regular flex then a set of XCalibers in stiff flex. I always seemed to miss left with those and came back to the Pings.

I am playing on Wednesday and am thinking of throwing the Pings back in the bag to see how they behave. After that I will likely go back to the fitter to revisit the shafts. While the shafts are great in the fitting they aren’t translating to the golf course. I have the fit guarantee with Cool Clubs so I am sure they will take care of me. The issue is fit during the fitting vs performance during the round. I love the extra distance and everything else about the clubs but I keep missing greens left which is putting a lot of pressure on my short game.

First thing to check is the lie angle. If they are too upright then they might be too upright.

As far as shafts go the steelfibers are pretty stiff and take a decent swing to load them through impact. I am not sure on the Nippon 850's and how they compare. Were you trying to go away from Steelfiber and that's why you went Nippon?

 

[Chef23]

First thing to check is the lie angle. If they are too upright then they might be too upright.

As far as shafts go the steelfibers are pretty stiff and take a decent swing to load them through impact. I am not sure on the Nippon 850's and how they compare. Were you trying to go away from Steelfiber and that's why you went Nippon?

I wasn't trying to go away from Steelfiber. The Steelfibers were picked up in a used set of irons not fitted. I had good results with them directionaly but was short with them. I was looking to pick up a bit of distance without losing the accuaracy.

 

[Flipit]

How far left are we talking? It could be that lie angle difference.

 

[TCB2010]

I'm curious about this, what kind of a miss left are we talking?
Pull? draw? What is the miss left?
I play the srixon z565 and occasionally have a miss left also, my interest sparked when you mentioned the z545's. I know there's a lot of variables that go into this I'm just wondering what kind of miss you have.
Could this be an alignment issue?

 

[Chef23]

How far left are we talking? It could be that lie angle difference.

Left enough to miss greens. There is only a 1* difference in lie angle. When I do the magic marker test during the fitting they were good when they were a degree up from where they are now. I am not sure if my swing is different on the course. I hit them well during the fitting but I always seemed to miss left with them even from my first swings on the range.

 

[Snickerdog]

Left enough to miss greens. There is only a 1* difference in lie angle. When I do the magic marker test during the fitting they were good when they were a degree up from where they are now. I am not sure if my swing is different on the course. I hit them well during the fitting but I always seemed to miss left with them even from my first swings on the range.

Is the club face getting shut slightly as you come thru the ball? Or maybe your swing is just a smidge out of sync and you are getting fast with your hand?

 

[Chef23]

Is the club face getting shut slightly as you come thru the ball? Or maybe your swing is just a smidge out of sync and you are getting fast with your hand?

Frankly I don't know. Something is wrong though. Part of the reason I am going to go play a round with my old irons is to see if the accuracy comes back. If it does it is club related if not my swing has gotten goofy. If I get the clubface shut down consistently at address that is an issue. If I am out of sync with the irons after 11 rounds and significant range time there is an issue. I am not saying my swing is perfect but I was playing well when I got the clubs. I am currently a 3.6 index so my swing is pretty consistent.

 

[mikeg_74]

I wasn't trying to go away from Steelfiber. The Steelfibers were picked up in a used set of irons not fitted. I had good results with them directionaly but was short with them. I was looking to pick up a bit of distance without losing the accuaracy.

Gotcha. I would look at the TT Elevate shafts. I think they could solve the distance issue without sacrificing accuracy. I have them in my Apex combo set and love them .

 

[blueonblack]

I just dropped down in weight and flex with the steelfibers. They are stout beasties. Just their stiffness may account for a little distance loss. Tried them in regular ever? I was shocked how stable they are coming from the 110 stiffs.

Also: balance point of the shafts comes to mind. Aerotech is a more tip-balanced design, and the Nippons are a little counter-balanced, it appears, given their balance point is listed at 50% smack in the middle. If you don't "need" a counter-balanced shaft that left miss is going to be the norm. Given your handicap, I suspect a more tip-balanced shaft is what you're used to and probably fits better overall. (Counter balanced helps swing from the inside more.)
I just went DOWN 1/4" and UP 1º in my lie angle and my contact improved a lot. It can make a difference there.
Cally is 1/4" longer than Ping as standard in my experience. If you ordered +1/4" from Cally, they may be +1/2" compared to your Pings.
That's all a lot of potential changes.

 

[WMac19]

I'm having/had very similar issues between my two sets, albeit sans fitting.

I had been playing, and playing pretty well, a set of Apex CF-16's with stiff Steelfiber i95 shafts, standard length, 2° flat (checked and tuned/readjusted).

When down with injury last year, idle hands and all, I picked up a standard L/L/L set of P790's w/stiff Recoil 780 with Smacwrap shafts. They seem to be maybe only 1/8" longer than my Cf-16's and although I didn't have lies checked, if they're believed to be standard, it would put them at 1.5° more upright than the Cf-16's.

When coming back from the injury, I should have eased myself back with my Cf-16's, known entity and all. But no, I'm a big kid and wanted to use my new toys.

Love the feel of the P790's and their look at address with their slightly longer blade and higher more angular toe.

But I was pretty consistently losing them left. When I wasn't, the tight draw that I'd played previously for years yet had disappeared over the last few, was back. And I loved it. But some lost left were ridiculously so.

I'd throw the Cf-16's back in the bag for a round here and there but I'd hook them some too so I just chalked it up to a loose swing that I was still trying to find during this latest comeback. So I stuck with the Taylormades exclusively.

It was only 3 weeks or so ago that, fed up with my terrible iron play, I put the Cf-16's back in the bag and was committed to giving them a long look regardless of bad play. At least at one point, they once worked very well for me over a fairly long period of time.

Well, the first couple of rounds were bumpy. Then I hit one tremendous shot with them and it was only a lay-up on our par 5 #4 hole. But I squared it up and that feeling at impact brought me back mentally to the seasons prior when I played them very well.

Since, irons have been a strength. Playing the tips yesterday, so more iron approaches than usual, I hit every green on the front. Although the stats went down on the back, the quality of my strikes really did not.

I don't think I'll be hitting the P790's again, don't wanna upset what I have going now as it was a struggle for a solid YEAR. So whether the lie (I think so) and/or the minor difference in length, or all in my head... at this point I'll never know, nor do I care. I just wanna hit more pure shots.

Best of luck to you, I have to think that it's the combo of length and lie angle for you. I've no doubt that your fitting saw better results but on course can be different at times. During my issues I'd read that a common miss with irons too long for the player, was to the left.

 

[McLovin]

I had a great time with my apex cf19 irons, but my miss was pretty consistently left despite starting with my usual 1* flat. I went for a gapping/lll analysis, and we went a bit flatter on pretty much all of the irons. that straightened them out. since you already have a decent investment in the irons, a quick lie angle adjustment is where i'd start. I will say those nippon 850s should be a bit more active than the steelfibers, so maybe there's a little timing issue right now too.

 

[Chef23]

I had a great time with my apex cf19 irons, but my miss was pretty consistently left despite starting with my usual 1* flat. I went for a gapping/lll analysis, and we went a bit flatter on pretty much all of the irons. that straightened them out. since you already have a decent investment in the irons, a quick lie angle adjustment is where i'd start. I will say those nippon 850s should be a bit more active than the steelfibers, so maybe there's a little timing issue right now too.

I already went flatter but I may go another degree before I start thinking about shafts. I think going another degree flat would get them to where my Pings are roughly.

 

[Kenomikes]

I'm thinking it's a shaft weight issue. I had this same issue with my CF-16s when I got them with regular flex Recoils. Lead tape first, helped some. Then had the lies flattened etc.

Still was overcooking everything. Eventually re shafted with stiff Recoils, Still hooking, like I couldn't feel the head.

Went with the CF-19's this year with steel Elevate 95's. Bingo. Dropped 3 shots off my handicap so far this year. The shaft is the biggest reason I feel my iron play is better this year.

 

[Chef23]

I'm thinking it's a shaft weight issue. I had this same issue with my CF-16s when I got them with regular flex Recoils. Lead tape first, helped some. Then had the lies flattened etc.

Still was overcooking everything. Eventually re shafted with stiff Recoils, Still hooking, like I couldn't feel the head.

Went with the CF-19's this year with steel Elevate 95's. Bingo. Dropped 3 shots off my handicap so far this year. The shaft is the biggest reason I feel my iron play is better this year.

Shafts are within a couple of grams of each other.

Played today with the Pings and I was brutal. I didn’t miss left but my swing is a mess right now. I need to fix that before anything else. I may fix it with the Pings though as I was playing well with them before the club switch.

 

[mpeterson]

Does Cool Clubs have a fit guarantee like Club Champion has? If so I'd reach out to them if you've got an unexpected, consistent miss.

 

[Chef23]

Does Cool Clubs have a fit guarantee like Club Champion has? If so I'd reach out to them if you've got an unexpected, consistent miss.

Yes they do and I am sure they will stand behind the fitting. I need a few days to figure my swing out before going down that route.

 

[mpeterson]

Yes they do and I am sure they will stand behind the fitting. I need a few days to figure my swing out before going down that route.

Cool - that’s one of the great things about those type of places. Good luck!

 

[DG_1234]

I recently got fitted at a Cool Clubs franchise and purchased a Set of Callaway Apexes with Nippon 850 in stiff flex. Interestingly enough I did a free fitting at TrueSpec last fall and got fitted into the same shaft. During the fitting I hit the clubs great picked up some yardage which I was looking for and love the feel and look. My previous clubs are (I still have them) Ping i200s with Steelfiber i95s in stiff flex. The Apexes are 1/4” longer and 1* more upright. They were 2* more upright and I had them flattened a degree already.

I have played quite a few rounds with the clubs now and while my swing has been a bit up and down I am consistently missing left with them. This is the opposite of my history and I have enough history with them to realize it isn’t an occasional issue but something that seems more consistent. I had the same issue with a set of Srixon 545s that I first had Recoil 95s in regular flex then a set of XCalibers in stiff flex. I always seemed to miss left with those and came back to the Pings.

I am playing on Wednesday and am thinking of throwing the Pings back in the bag to see how they behave. After that I will likely go back to the fitter to revisit the shafts. While the shafts are great in the fitting they aren’t translating to the golf course. I have the fit guarantee with Cool Clubs so I am sure they will take care of me. The issue is fit during the fitting vs performance during the round. I love the extra distance and everything else about the clubs but I keep missing greens left which is putting a lot of pressure on my short game.

What is your age ?

 

[Chef23]

What is your age ?

Kind of an insensitive question . I am 54.

 

[DG_1234]

Kind of an insensitive question . I am 54.

I asked your age because the Nippon 950GH is light weight and has been especially popular with LPGA players and some male senior players.
The 850GH, is lighter weight than the 950 and I think the 850 is so light weight that it can make shot accuracy consistently especially challenging.