Lag, or lack thereof.

[razaar]

I played golf regularly for years with a mate who was a past member of our national roller blade hockey team. He is a master builder with extremely strong wrists who 'flicks' the golf ball with very little body rotation. At address he has the clubface aiming well left of the target. His swing is very similar to Allen Doyle's golf swing ( on YouTube).
Chris told me he found golf a really easy game after playing representative roller hockey where the opposition is trying to cut your legs from under you when you are trying to send the puck through a narrow window while travelling at speed. Allen Doyle was a hockey player also.

 

[Lane]

I played golf regularly for years with a mate who was a past member of our national roller blade hockey team. He is a master builder with extremely strong wrists who 'flicks' the golf ball with very little body rotation. At address he has the clubface aiming well left of the target. His swing is very similar to Allen Doyle's golf swing ( on YouTube).
Chris told me he found golf a really easy game after playing representative roller hockey where the opposition is trying to cut your legs from under you when you are trying to send the puck through a narrow window while travelling at speed. Allen Doyle was a hockey player also.

Yes Sir - Allen Doyle is a friend of mine and I played in several of Ga. PGA events which he usually won. Hockey players of all the sports have always seemed to the make the best golfers. Their side- on method is very much like the golf swing which is also a side- on action.
I know nothing about Hockey so I have no knowledge about it, but they seem to be similar to the golf swing !

 

[Lane]

Yes Sir - Allen Doyle is a friend of mine and I played in several of Ga. PGA events which he usually won. Hockey players of all the sports have always seemed to the make the best golfers. Their side- on method is very much like the golf swing which is also a side- on action.
I know nothing about Hockey so I have no knowledge about it, but they seem to be similar to the golf swing !

I just did some research on NHL Hockey stick rules specs. They can only bend 3/4 inch at at 60 inch in length and that is very little bend for that length. It is reasonable to assume that is much stiffer than a 45 inch driver shaft . Therefore, I would certainly question the “ flicking “ of the golf shaft ? It is easy to see that Allen Doyle didn’t “ flick at it . He has great lag in his DS .
It appears that Hockey players rotate their torso, but maybe I’m wrong ?

 

[Puttmaster]

I just did some research on NHL Hockey stick rules specs. They can only bend 3/4 inch at at 60 inch in length and that is very little bend for that length. It is reasonable to assume that is much stiffer than a 45 inch driver shaft . Therefore, I would certainly question the “ flicking “ of the golf shaft ? It is easy to see that Allen Doyle didn’t “ flick at it . He has great lag in his DS .
It appears that Hockey players rotate their torso, but maybe I’m wrong ?

What in the world does any of this have to do with the original post by @Hamfist ?

 

[razaar]

I just did some research on NHL Hockey stick rules specs. They can only bend 3/4 inch at at 60 inch in length and that is very little bend for that length. It is reasonable to assume that is much stiffer than a 45 inch driver shaft . Therefore, I would certainly question the “ flicking “ of the golf shaft ? It is easy to see that Allen Doyle didn’t “ flick at it . He has great lag in his DS .
It appears that Hockey players rotate their torso, but maybe I’m wrong ?

"Flick" is an old golf tag referring to that point when the wrists release at the bottom of the swing. "Fling of the clubhead" is another tag referring to the wrist cocking on the upswing when the takeaway included clubhead lag.

 

[Hamfist]

So I get what you are saying. Instructors describe Steve Stricker's wrist action as being "firm" resulting in a delayed wrist cock, but not necessarily reduced wrist cock. You do sometimes see the latter when he's at the top with an iron, but not with driver (see below). Now I'm just looking out for you. Will that work for you? Is your understanding of what Steve Stricker does different?
View attachment 9029296

Hmmmm….interesting. I always thought he held the right wrist a lot straighter.

 

[Lane]

Hmmmm….interesting. I always thought he held the right wrist a lot straighter.

The lever system that Steve Stricker forms at the end of his BS is exactly the same as EVERY player on tour. It looks the same as 25 plus million golfers in the USA and around the world. A child who swings a club for very first time will attempt to form their lever the same way. It is the ONLY way any human can create club head speed to propel a golf ball as far as Stricker can.
The BS only occupies 7/10 seconds of the swing. That upcoming DS that only requires 2/10 seconds is “ the important part” and the part that the aspiring player should only focus on . I suggest you quit wasting time on that part that is least important, but many people make a living from teaching the —-Backswing !!!!!

 

[Luchnia]

I played golf regularly for years with a mate who was a past member of our national roller blade hockey team. He is a master builder with extremely strong wrists who 'flicks' the golf ball with very little body rotation. At address he has the clubface aiming well left of the target. His swing is very similar to Allen Doyle's golf swing ( on YouTube).
Chris told me he found golf a really easy game after playing representative roller hockey where the opposition is trying to cut your legs from under you when you are trying to send the puck through a narrow window while travelling at speed. Allen Doyle was a hockey player also.

I watched a video of Allen's swing and he has substantial wrist twist. You can easily see the wrist "flicks" (for lack of a better word) and assist in controlling power and speed for him. He has a weak short swing, yet he compensates for it with arms and wrists.

I think a lot of golfers with limited swing distance could use this to improve their swing and have more enjoyment of the game, but I think control does become an issue. If this type of swing were practiced one could overcome most of the variables that cause control issues. Some golfers struggle with body mobility and can strengthen the arms and the wrist to help compensate.

 

[razaar]

I watched a video of Allen's swing and he has substantial wrist twist. You can easily see the wrist "flicks" (for lack of a better word) and assist in controlling power and speed for him. He has a weak short swing, yet he compensates for it with arms and wrists.

I think a lot of golfers with limited swing distance could use this to improve their swing and have more enjoyment of the game, but I think control does become an issue. If this type of swing were practiced one could overcome most of the variables that cause control issues. Some golfers struggle with body mobility and can strengthen the arms and the wrist to help compensate.

That wrist twist in Doyle's transition from BS to DS is really right shoulder external rotation coupled with shifting the right elbow towards the left elbow. It sets the club behind the hands for a shallow attack. It looks like the wrists do the work but it is really the wrists reacting to the right shoulder ER and bringing the forearms together.
It has to be felt in the shoulder not the right hand in order to introduce this movement into our golf swing. The hands form part of the club and are fully occupied holding it.

 

[Lane]

That wrist twist in Doyle's transition from BS to DS is really right shoulder external rotation coupled with shifting the right elbow towards the left elbow. It sets the club behind the hands for a shallow attack. It looks like the wrists do the work but it is really the wrists reacting to the right shoulder ER and bringing the forearms together.
It has to be felt in the shoulder not the right hand in order to introduce this movement into our golf swing. The hands form part of the club and are fully occupied holding it.

Razaar- let me make sure I understand what you are you saying - that the only purpose of the HANDS is to hold the club? That the shoulders control the hands and the golf swing !
Am I correct ?

 

[Arlo]

I just did some research on NHL Hockey stick rules specs. They can only bend 3/4 inch at at 60 inch in length and that is very little bend for that length. It is reasonable to assume that is much stiffer than a 45 inch driver shaft . Therefore, I would certainly question the “ flicking “ of the golf shaft ? It is easy to see that Allen Doyle didn’t “ flick at it . He has great lag in his DS .
It appears that Hockey players rotate their torso, but maybe I’m wrong ?

I watched a video of Allen's swing and he has substantial wrist twist. You can easily see the wrist "flicks" (for lack of a better word) and assist in controlling power and speed for him. He has a weak short swing, yet he compensates for it with arms and wrists.

I think a lot of golfers with limited swing distance could use this to improve their swing and have more enjoyment of the game, but I think control does become an issue. If this type of swing were practiced one could overcome most of the variables that cause control issues. Some golfers struggle with body mobility and can strengthen the arms and the wrist to help compensate.

Allen Doyle and Doug Sanders had similar golf swings.
Both dropped into the Slot and pulled the levers through the ball, with only connection they had with the golf club.. the hands.