Non-Conforming Clubs Hypothetical

rallo

#FYF
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
8,498
Reaction score
460
Location
Iowa City, IA
Handicap
goodenough
Let's say that the USGA came out with a tier system involving Non Conforming Golf Equipment that split into 3 categories:
Tier 1. Conforming clubs as they are now
Tier 2. Non-Conforming clubs aimed at the intermediate golfers such as slightly higher COR drivers, Indi wedges, etc. maybe allowed to carry 15 or more clubs
Tier 3. Non-conforming clubs that stretch the limits even further aimed at beginners or strictly recreational golfers.

To go along with this, let's say that the USGA implements a handicap system that allows you to keep a cap that is adjusted based on the Tier of equipment that you choose to play. And tournaments will be announced that delineate the minimum Tier that is allowed in said tournament beforehand... ideally all tournaments that could potentially lead to qualifying for pro events limit the equipment to Tier 1, and all other semi competitive tourneys Tier 2 or 3.

Would you then game non-conforming equipment if you were able to keep a handicap, and had no intention of trying to qualify for a pro event?
If not, what would it take for you to game non-conforming equipment?
 

McRock

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
8,492
Reaction score
56
Location
Iowa
Handicap
11.6
What do you mean by "adjusted handicap" based on the tier of equipment. Like, removing strokes from your handicap based upon the equipment you are playing?

~Rock
 

rallo

#FYF
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
8,498
Reaction score
460
Location
Iowa City, IA
Handicap
goodenough
What do you mean by "adjusted handicap" based on the tier of equipment. Like, removing strokes from your handicap based upon the equipment you are playing?

~Rock
I would assume some algorithm that affects your cap similarly to how the slope/rating system works on courses.
 

OITW

Contestant in #THPSweep
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
50,124
Reaction score
16,590
Location
My Happy Place
Handicap
The Clock
I think this is a good start.

I wouldn't mind gaming non conforming stuff when messing around or practicing.

But I think to grow the game this is a step in the right direction.
 

bavs

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
1
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I would not play any equipment deemed non conforming. I think the conforming and non conforming rules are ridiculous (Triton plain in shape) but they are the rules in place.

Since the Triton and the 12g weight issue with the characteristic time violation I have wondered about those that add lead tape to the heads of their drivers. This clearly can alter characteristic time but there is simply no way to enforce this. I wonder how many of those that utilize lead tape have a driver that is non conforming?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

rallo

#FYF
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
8,498
Reaction score
460
Location
Iowa City, IA
Handicap
goodenough
I would not play any equipment deemed non conforming. I think the conforming and non conforming rules are ridiculous (Triton plain in shape) but they are the rules in place.

Since the Triton and the 12g weight issue with the characteristic time violation I have wondered about those that add lead tape to the heads of their drivers. This clearly can alter characteristic time but there is simply no way to enforce this. I wonder how many of those that utilize lead tape have a driver that is non conforming?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
But hypothetically I am saying that the rules would change, and you could play a relaxed, non-conforming set and still keep a handicap, play in all events that don't qualify for the tour. Would you still always choose conforming?
 

RNG

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
11,313
Reaction score
36
Location
Emmitsburg, MD
Handicap
10
I would still choose conforming. I've been at this too long to change my philosophy at this point.
 

bavs

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
1,368
Reaction score
1
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I would still always choose conforming. The fact that it would still be non-conforming under certain situations would make the decision for me

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

SquirrelyDave

Allegedly....
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
18,217
Reaction score
4,045
Location
North JoCo
Handicap
GHIN 22.7
Interesting thought.

I'm never going to make a run at the us open or the tour so sure I'd play "tier 2" equipment. As long as I could use it in the tournaments I do play.
 

aljaklaw

2019 THP/BG Co-Champion
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
7,880
Reaction score
2,211
Location
Canada
Handicap
tequila
I think this is akin to the MLB Juice League where A-Rods run rampant and the Juiced Olympics where the 100m dash is under 9 seconds
 

McRock

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
8,492
Reaction score
56
Location
Iowa
Handicap
11.6
In my mind, since we are talking about handicap, why not keep the same formula they use now, and just let you use the non-conforming clubs for handicap rounds. Your cap is your cap. If the clubs help you out, the cap will be lower.

Then, in the end, its going to be up to most local events what rules to follow and what not (those awesome local rules). And your cap is your cap.

So I guess my answer is, I probably still wouldn't game non-conforming clubs, but that's just me. I simply don't see a benefit in it for me, though I understand it could be a big benefit for many people.

~Rock
 

Big SoIL

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
13,268
Reaction score
87
Location
Carbondale, IL
Handicap
8.9
If they're just tour non conforming, l liked the looks of them, and I had more fun gaming them. Heck yes I would, I have no delusions I'll ever even think of trying to make it on tour and if I had more fun playing with them, why not!
 

JohnSinVA

Porkins
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
11,269
Reaction score
738
Location
Too close to golfinnut
Handicap
Non-Conforming Clubs Hypothetical

They sort of have this already with respect to irons with the old grooves. If I read the guidelines correctly they are legal for everything below "elite" amateur play until 2024. I'm assuming "elite" in this context means non-handicapped what you shoot is what you net events.

While there might be some merit to such a system I can see lines being blurred and confusing rulings with regard to what is tier 1 vs tier 2, etc.

ETA: A clean bifurcation of equipment standards would probably be a cleaner and more workable solution, IMHO.
 

Annhl8rX

Well-known member
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
504
Location
Texas
Handicap
30
If the hypothetical tier 2 equipment helped me and still all owed me to keep a handicap I wouldn't hesitate to play it. That is, of course, if the price was right.
 

Popeye

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Messages
2,305
Reaction score
668
Location
Scranton Pa
Handicap
2
While I like the idea of equipment that can be helpful to aid or bring in new players working out a HP system based on that gear would be a nightmare.

Readily available juiced equipment then leads to all sort of cheating.
If it's a casual Captain and Crew for pro shop coupons then it's not a big deal. But any HP based event,, the equipment needs to be on the same level.

Can you imagine your local Monday night league trying to keep up with who has what equipment in thier bag ,, I smell a cluster Ffff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 

Wakit300

Active member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
1,663
Reaction score
13
Location
Broomfield, CO
Handicap
GHIN 6.0
Besides the logistical nightmare of such a scenario I just don't see any reason why I personally would play non-conforming clubs. The clubs manufactured now are 100 times more forgiving than what I started out playing and at times it feels like I'm cheating. You know, those times when I'll make what I know is a horrible swing and contact and still end up with a decent shot ...

The game's supposed to be difficult and take a lot of skill to get to a certain level and I'm OK with that.
 

GolfSwag

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
100
Reaction score
0
Location
Tallahassee, FL
Handicap
7
Honestly, my opinion (only) is that they need to blow up the handicap system in place already, due to so many sandbaggers and others that don't post scores by the rules as it is. Conforming or non conforming clubs aren't really an issue with me. My brother plays with a group of guys that play 1930's era hickory clubs that are all non-conforming, albeit these clubs make the game harder and not easier. That group of players maintains a handicap based solely on their hickory clubs, and it's outside of whatever the USGA is doing. They also have their own balls, and dress in plus fours, etc. But I'm not bothered by what they are doing because I'll never put up money against any of them, nor would any of them try and compete against me with current equipment.

My solution honestly is to match up at scratch mano y mano. If you lose based on gross score or holes lost in match play that's on you. Want to win? Play better.

But everything I see in your hypothetical seems contrived to serve a purpose outside of any normal tournament or golf organization intends. Sure, if you want to form your own golf group with a bunch of buddies and play non-conforming equipment designed to help you hit the ball 450 yards off the tee and laser line up your putts like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack, then have at it. No one is stopping you and your 20 friends from forming your own league, and creating your own rules. Sort of like disc golf. Grow the game however it suits your purposes. Just be honest and up front about that if you are betting someone real money in a match.
 

ntanygd760

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
10,245
Reaction score
606
Location
Rocky River
Handicap
6.2
This is silly since it won't happen but similar to the current wedge rules. If they were made before when they changed the rules you can still use them but not for USGA national events/pro tours.
 

NoLine

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
8,374
Reaction score
144
Location
Florida/Arizona
Handicap
13.4
Non-Conforming Clubs Hypothetical

Probably not game them because to be done right the algorithm would apply enough weight to conforming clubs that it wouldn't benefit you to play a non conforming club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rallo

#FYF
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
8,498
Reaction score
460
Location
Iowa City, IA
Handicap
goodenough
Probably not game them because to be done right the algorithm would apply enough weight to conforming clubs that it wouldn't benefit you to play a non conforming club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What would it take for you to game a non-conforming bag?
 

ArmyGolf

#Rise&Grind
Albatross 2021 Club
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
31,246
Reaction score
4,080
Location
BC
Handicap
RCGA 9.3
I still wouldn't consider non-conforming at all.

10 extra yards with driver or a thousand rpm's of spin off a wedge aren't what is holding people back from playing golf, it has nothing to do with growing the game.
 

ddec

I have many leather-bound books
Albatross 2021 Club
Staff member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
77,950
Reaction score
4,336
Location
NY
Handicap
The Driver
Considering I rarely ever play in a serious tournament, I'd have no issue with playing it under the tier system.
 

woody_74

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
2,390
Reaction score
56
Location
Iowa
Handicap
19
Interesting thought.

I'm never going to make a run at the us open or the tour so sure I'd play "tier 2" equipment. As long as I could use it in the tournaments I do play.
I think this is where I would fall as well. I only play in THP events so tournaments really wouldn't bother me either.
 

NoLine

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
8,374
Reaction score
144
Location
Florida/Arizona
Handicap
13.4
What would it take for you to game a non-conforming bag?
A lot of money!!! And since I have money it would have to be a lot of $$$$

I'm an old dude. I like rules. A society without rules is, well, America in 2017.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Welcome to The Hackers Paradise

Don't just play golf, live it!

Register Log in
Top