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Old instruction revisited

pinseeker

pinseeker

"Non renunciare mai quello che desideri"
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Golf instruction is constantly evolving -or is it? It seems like many of the respected instructors all say the same thing but arguably in different ways. After all, basics are basics, or so it would seem. Recently, I reviewed some of my old You Tube subscriptions realizing how I had drifted away from the instruction that had helped so much at the time. Then, I would see instruction from others introducing other concepts which struck a chord and I would adopt the "newest" thing. Anyway, going back to what had really helped me in the first place, was like re-discovering a "gem" I had forgotten (or placed on the proverbial "shelf".

"If it ain't broke, then don't try to fix it".
 
I think many teachers have realized they over-rotated on technology and got students too wrapped up in the technical. As such, they're returning more to the basics. I think that's a good thing. The golf swing is not mechanical, no matter how much technology we throw at it.
 
wadesworld said:
I think many teachers have realized they over-rotated on technology and got students too wrapped up in the technical. As such, they're returning more to the basics. I think that's a good thing. The golf swing is not mechanical, no matter how much technology we throw at it.
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Yes, I would agree with that. the instructor I was referring to basically is saying the same as he did 25 years ago. I guess they have to reinvent themselves as a way of marketing, even to the point of re-naming their website.
 
I think what you are saying points to the most important part of instruction. Can the teacher communicate what they know to their student? If the communication breaks down between the 2 then the lessons will never work, however if their communication is in sync they can go a really long way.
 
"tired and true" = "tried and true"
 
golf Swings are like snow flakes, all unique and all delicate as hell. golf instruction, like golf equipment is going to adapt and evolve. But as you point out, most golfers are still doing the "wrong things" now that they were doing 5/10/20/30/etc years ago, so it makes sense that most lessons would end up being repetitive in what is worked on from the coaches' point of view.

But coaches also have access to new ways of explaining what a golfer is doing. Some of us learn from seeing, some of us learn from being told you are x in to out, so lets try to get you to Y in to out, some respond to being told to try and mimic certain feels. Makes sense that they might say the same thing in different ways as they learn what helps golfers learn.

So while I think there are definitely coaches out there that will simply try to repackage the same thing soley for profit, the vast majority of coaches in my opinion are trying to get better at their jobs of helping golfers get better at this game.

So I guess I am an optimist?
 
mancest said:
golf Swings are like snow flakes, all unique and all delicate as hell. golf instruction, like golf equipment is going to adapt and evolve. But as you point out, most golfers are still doing the "wrong things" now that they were doing 5/10/20/30/etc years ago, so it makes sense that most lessons would end up being repetitive in what is worked on from the coaches' point of view.

But coaches also have access to new ways of explaining what a golfer is doing. Some of us learn from seeing, some of us learn from being told you are x in to out, so lets try to get you to Y in to out, some respond to being told to try and mimic certain feels. Makes sense that they might say the same thing in different ways as they learn what helps golfers learn.

So while I think there are definitely coaches out there that will simply try to repackage the same thing soley for profit, the vast majority of coaches in my opinion are trying to get better at their jobs of helping golfers get better at this game.

So I guess I am an optimist?
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Yes, 👍💪and this is why we are designing our NEW Online Golf Academy/Program to allow for these differences. Stay Tuned kids!

We have always had acceptable Tolerances for students for most aspects of the swing and short game; depending on your abilities, preferences, potential injuries/surgeries, and desire to get to an optimal swing. We are bringing different methods and communication styles together because there isn't ONE WAY to teach or learn golf. We will also have different feels and drills because not everyone feels the same thing.

Something as simple as a Takeaway can create havoc when someone tries to do it ONE WAY; some may need to feel the right arm straighten, and some may need to feel the feet corkscrew into the ground...I feel my hands lead and the shaft never gets behind me (very vertical) then, I feel an opening up of my rib cage, and my right hip turning around and going towards the target. Tim feels something completely different from me.

What we have on our site now is us 'testing the online waters', so please let us know what YOU want in an Online Golf Learning Program. Reply here, send us a DM, email us...we are listening and taking notes as we build it out.
 
I am glad that my thread was able to elicit some worthwhile responses even though it was sort of a "muse".
 
I just saw a Padraig video where he was talking about starting your downswing/transition before you complete your backswing.

This is something we worked on in the 80's and it's such a powerful feeling and really helps get you in a great position for the irons.
 
As a guy that does not crave launch monitors, numbers & degrees etc.... I need things explained in feelings. I’ve walked away from good instructors that I just didn’t understand.
At the end of the day, the golf swing is still the golf swing, a simple athletic motion that has a 1000 placed to go wrong.
 
Old instruction worked 50 years ago, and there is reason to think it won't work now.

I've always looked at the pga tour as a proving ground for new, and improved instruction. Particularly 72 hole tournament score averages. What I have seen over over the years is, that on average tournament scores get about 1 stroke better every 10 years.

I don't attribute this 1 stroke average improvement every 10 years to instruction. I think the improvement is more likely do to technology, and stronger players who hit the ball farther. I may be wrong, but I don't see it being any other way.

I like to read about stuff, especially golf stuff. Last year I purchased the latest, greatest book on golf instruction. The book's title is unimportant, as I believe I wasted a couple green fees on it.

After reading through it thoroughly, a few times, most of it was just a rehash of older teachings, just worded differently. Different wording that made the author's swing instruction harder to understand for the weekend golfer. .

I'm not saying modern instruction isn't any good. I'm just saying it's not that much better than say the instruction that Hogan, or Nicklaus recieved back in their day.
 
WLG1952 said:
Old instruction worked 50 years ago, and there is reason to think it won't work now.

I've always looked at the pga tour as a proving ground for new, and improved instruction. Particularly 72 hole tournament score averages. What I have seen over over the years is, that on average tournament scores get about 1 stroke better every 10 years.

I don't attribute this 1 stroke average improvement every 10 years to instruction. I think the improvement is more likely do to technology, and stronger players who hit the ball farther. I may be wrong, but I don't see it being any other way.

I like to read about stuff, especially golf stuff. Last year I purchased the latest, greatest book on golf instruction. The book's title is unimportant, as I believe I wasted a couple green fees on it.

After reading through it thoroughly, a few times, most of it was just a rehash of older teachings, just worded differently. Different wording that made the author's swing instruction harder to understand for the weekend golfer. .

I'm not saying modern instruction isn't any good. I'm just saying it's not that much better than say the instruction that Hogan, or Nicklaus recieved back in their day.
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Can I have a guess on the golf book title you spent 2 green fees on?

"Science of the Golf Swing' by Michael Jacobs at a whopping £94 .
 
I'm not fully in agreement that old golf instruction 50 years ago worked . I have a book called 'The Secret Of Golf' by George Peper listing out 49 different swing theories by various 'golfers/instructors/academics' spanning the decades.

Okay, some of the theories may have worked on some golfers but none of them ended up being superior or being used as a reference guide. If any of those theories were proven to work better than the others , then I'd expect it to still be in the forefront of modern golf instruction.

What we had before was a plethora of theories while the new research and 3D technology are attempting to identify real statistical commonalities in PGA pro swings. In the next 10 years or so we might actually end up with a proper reference guide that instructors can use with a refined objective in mind. The art of their golf instruction will be how to use internal/external focus techniques to meet those objectives for each individual pupil.
 
WILDTHING said:
I'm not fully in agreement that old golf instruction 50 years ago worked . I have a book called 'The Secret Of Golf' by George Peper listing out 49 different swing theories by various 'golfers/instructors/academics' spanning the decades.

Okay, some of the theories may have worked on some golfers but none of them ended up being superior or being used as a reference guide. If any of those theories were proven to work better than the others , then I'd expect it to still be in the forefront of modern golf instruction.

What we had before was a plethora of theories while the new research and 3D technology are attempting to identify real statistical commonalities in PGA pro swings. In the next 10 years or so we might actually end up with a proper reference guide that instructors can use with a refined objective in mind. The art of their golf instruction will be how to use internal/external focus techniques to meet those objectives for each individual pupil.
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We are getting there. Our program has 3-4 options depending on the motion we are trying to get the player to feel. Feel is not real, and everyone has different ones. Combine that with different ways to swing a club depending on player flexibility & speed, you need an instructor/program that fits all types of golfers. That's what we're building....stay tuned. 😉
 
As is true of many other things, golf instruction is like s*x, in that every time you think you've found a new way to do it, you find out it's already been done before.
 
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