Random Thoughts based on a round with 3 guys much better than I

[darthweasel]

I recently joined a semi-private club. It has been beneficial in several ways...one being the slowest round I have played on the member side (there are 2 courses they rotate: one is "private" for 2 weeks, the other "public", then they switch them) is 3:43. One one of those days the wife was sleeping so I bopped over to the public side and teed off minutes after finishing a 3:21 round and it was 5:06 on the public side...

Now, for years I have played a majority of my rounds as a walk-on. I have several golfing buddies but most of them have a life...kids, etc...whereas I have a wife who works nights and no kids so I can more or less golf at will and often do.

In those matchups I have observed several things. First, I generally am the longest hitter in the group or close to it. And it is not because I am overly long. All time (since I have used Golfpad, 3035 recorded shots) my driver average is 250. On the nose today. Over the last 50 rounds it is 260 and over the last 10 251 yards. So clearly there has been fluctuation. When I first bought my current driver last year I had a stretch over a couple months where it ranged from 279 to 271...it was not fun watching that drop lol.

The point being I am routinely the longest driver in the group, rare exceptions aside, at around 250 yards over a sizeable stretch of time. There have been exceptions of course, but they are rare enough I notice them. My first round after signing up was not overly different...the guys all went around a prominent bunker. I noted the distance and had zero qualms going straight over it and cleared it by a good distance.

Well, in the most recent round I was matched up with three guys. I generally just play whatever box the people I am with are playing. Exception once you get past about 6600 I move up regardless just because I don't really like playing too long. Even if I am capable it is not fun. I will happily move forward boxes and find it great fun playing from short. Personal taste. These guys suggested one up from the tips. No worries, I can hang from there, lets go.

I often play with someone here and there who is better than I am when random pairings. It is rare for there to be two. It doesn't happen where there are three. This has always somewhat surprised me as I am a self-proclaimed mediocre golfer and my handicap has typically ranged from 16 to 12...hardly eye-popping. I have lived in the 85-100 range for years and that is just what I have found...I have, in random match-ups, been among the better.

This time I was matched up with three who were all significantly better than me. The first hole was indicative. The first guy had a stiff, problematic back impinging his swing and maybe drove it 200? that would prove to be a fluke as the rest of the day he was generally out beyond me. My first drive was 245 and in the left rough. I was slightly behind one guy and 25-30 yards behind another.

After two I was furthest from the green...and the guy with the shortest drive had the only birdie. Two of us missed birdie putts and the guy who would go on to shoot a 68 had a chunk chip that cost him a stroke.

This is point one. Distance is a skill. I have played this hole several times and it has been reachable in two for me a little under half the time. Backing up one box actually took reaching in two out of play for me on every par 5. That made one person in the group for which it was true. Related but applicable point: Long par fours were much more difficult as I was often 20-30 yards behind. This is 1-3 clubs...that matters. My dispersions are always, under every circumstance, going to be larger with say...my 9i to their pw. That will make the ensuing chip/putt longer on average. That will lead to a higher score over the course of things.

Will there be exceptions? Absolutely. I likely had the lowest score outright on the hole I birdied and tied for low on several I parred...but overall? Over time? They are going to have better scores and a lot of that is proximity due to length off the tee. Funnily enough, there is an easy way for me to adjust this...I can move up a box lol. The yardage I play from can and will affect my scoring opportunities.

On a related note, more than once when I have eagled a hole I have had someone comment they have never had one and never reached in two. As a general rule they do not have the length to reach in two. As stated above...if that is how they enjoy golf, more power to them but I genuinely believe a lot of people don't take advantage of the flexibility of golf to allow it to be played by people with different skillsets to get similar results...or opportunities for similar results.

For example, if I played PGA length...not only would I never reach any par 5 in two, there would be several par 4s that would be at the extreme edge or even beyond my capability to reach in two. But if they were playing from there and I were playing 6200-6400 hundred...yeah, I might reach here and there. Meanwhile, that guy pummeling his driver 200? play from 5300 and he might reach here and there.

I have played with many players who could go driver-driver and not reach multiple par 4s. Now, if they enjoy that...more power to them. Play the game the way you enjoy. I am not going to tell them to play shorter because I think it would be more enjoyable...any more than the guy playing 5600 with a 250 drive am I going to tell he might enjoy more from 6300. Play as you enjoy, just be aware the option is often there to play from a yardage that fits the distance.

The post got rejected for being too long so clipping here...

 

[darthweasel]

A second observation was dispersion. This came up on hole 3, a par 3 over water. The green is pretty wide. The left half is over water and has a bunker behind it. It is a two tier green with the left side being the upper tier. On this day the pin was at the far left edge, making it the most dangerous location...you need the longest carry to the narrowest part of the green with bunker behind. Knowing my dispersion I was never going at the pin. I was going center of the green. My most common current miss is a pull which would err toward the pin, with an occasional drift right.

I went dead center green, pushed it just a little bit leaving myself a nice 40ish foot putt uphill to the upper tier with a drift right to left. All three of them went right at the flag. At first I was thinking this was a poor strategic choice. Indeed, two of them missed the green...one on the fringe above the hole, one being left of the green on a little hill chipping out of the rough. After reflection I noted that with their dispersions...it likely did make sense for them to go pretty close to the flag. It fit their shot shapes and skill levels. It would have been a poor choice for me based on shot shape and skill level.

So this gives me a solid idea of my next step to improvement. At my age and fitness level, there is only so much I can do to increase speed. An auto accident pretty much limits my back effort. But I can dial in my dispersions tighter, particularly in the coveted 150 and under range. There are subtle adjustments I cam make to narrow down my misses and make pins like this more accessible. Not that I am going after it...but instead of aiming 20 yards from the flag, maybe I can aim 10 yards from it.

And this was a reoccurring thing across the day. One shot I hit laughably bad turned out great....I was in the wrong fairway off the tee partially by design...but I overdid it and left myself an uphill 155 yard shot to a tight tucked flag right edge protected from this angle by a tall tree. I aimed left center of the green but also was rushing my shot to get out of the way of some golfers coming almost to their balls to hit their shot in their own fairway...so I ran out, aimed left, took a hurried swing that reverted to old patterns and hit a beautiful high cut that left me an 8' birdie opportunity...I had aimed nowhere near that flag, hit an awful shot and it worked out lol.

The underlying point is; if I can tighten my dispersions I would not attempt that shot...I would attempt one designed closer to the flag...not at it but closer...and my miss likely will be closer as well. This should minimize the number of chips and/or long putts that lead to 3-putts.

Another thing I noted is I have been slacking on my putting practice. I have traditionally not worried about. I have also always been a "die it in the hole" putter". Something changed lately and instead I am shipping stuff 2,3, 4' past and instead of having a bunch of 1 and 2-putts, now it is 2 and 3 putts. I likely should have had 3-4 birdies and had 1. I should have saved par another time or 2 and did not. Now, it is not a surefire thing I should have made all 4-6 of those putts...but I should have made 3 or 4 more.

it was so bad that after I got home and cleaned up I turned around and went back to the course and spent a couple hours putting. Yes, I was that upset about it. And I noticed something interesting. Doing the clock drill, I used to routinely drain 30, 40, 50 in a row, then maybe a miss, then another 30-50 makes from 3'. From 40' it was more the 20-40 makes and by 5' it was around 20 in a row with occasional longer runs.

On this day I had zero runs of 30 or more. I had very few double digits streaks. And my pace was terrible...stuff running past the hole which of course shrinks the cup and makes it harder to make. As my goal is to make 3' putts automatic, I try to always set up on a slope so I have some left to right, some right to left and a straight one or two. Watching my putt run past and take the break out was irksome. If I just correct my pace I immediately would be back to long streaks of makes. It is something I will be putting time into as weather allows. That is low-hanging fruit.

Adjusting my clubface a fraction of a degree is vastly more difficult than not whacking a ball twice as hard as I am trying from 3'...


Playing with these better players was a lot of fun. Except one shot on 18 I did not embarrass myself*, I actually played pretty well for me...and it gave me a look at a couple things I can do to help myself. Obviously physical limitations will limit what I can do as far as increasing distance...I am on the wrong side of 50 with destroyed L4 and L5, my knees are shot which severely limits my turn...but I can tighten those dispersions and correct my putting...

Hopefully this can serve as a reminder to myself of things to work on. For the record, I shot an 81 and my handicap dropped from 11.9 to 11.1 overnight...


* on 18 I tugged my driver and had a punchout. For...reasons I used a club I don't ever use for the punch out, punched it out too far and rinsed it on the far side of the fairway. This gained me NOTHING. Had I punched out anywhere in the fairway I might have been one club longer, still been on or close to the green and finished with a five. Instead I added a drop and had a six (par 5). Just...stupid. Embarrassing to punchout into the water when it gained nothing.

 

[echico]

All the little things add up. I am always amazed playing with really good golfers how they process information so much differently than I do.

 

[BigMac]

From the times I've played with genuinely good golfers (amateurs, not Tour level), maybe the most surprising revelation has been that "good golf" often appears pretty boring. It's not fireworks and bombs, highlight reel shots and heroic saves and fist pumps - it's hitting solid shots, keeping the ball in play, and just playing smart golf that matches up with their strengths.

 

[TxAggie2018]

From the times I've played with genuinely good golfers (amateurs, not Tour level), maybe the most surprising revelation has been that "good golf" often appears pretty boring. It's not fireworks and bombs, highlight reel shots and heroic saves and fist pumps - it's hitting solid shots, keeping the ball in play, and just playing smart golf that matches up with their strengths.

Yep. The only thing that really stands out to me is the distance.... I don't think I've seen a golfer playing under say a 5 who couldn't just crush it. But after they're off the tee, it's just boring golf, and they never actually look like they're going low. You think they're playing somewhere in the 80s, then you talk to them after the rounds and they really just shot something in the 70s.

 

[Chef23]

Yep. The only thing that really stands out to me is the distance.... I don't think I've seen a golfer playing under say a 5 who couldn't just crush it. But after they're off the tee, it's just boring golf, and they never actually look like they're going low. You think they're playing somewhere in the 80s, then you talk to them after the rounds and they really just shot something in the 70s.

My index generally runs between 2.5 and 5. I average about 230 with the driver an play a lot of golf between 6400 and 7k yards. The key for me is keeping the ball in front of me and chipping and putting well. Don’t take penalty strokes, make stupid decisions, two chips etc. 250 yards is plenty of distance to be a sub 5 handicap. You just need to tighten up your overall game.

 

[Jason89er]

I’ve said it on many other posts and your story (very well told BTW!) is indicative of this fact as well. Distance is KING. If you can’t golf that ball off the tee at least 230-240 consistently you have little to no chance of getting to a single digit hcp. Unless you have an elite to tour level short game and putting skills. Even then it’s a maybe. I play with my best bud every week and have watched him become a seriously better player by turning his Driver into an absolute weapon. 270 is nothing to him now. And he regularly beats me and goes under 80 quite a bit. Only time he struggles is when his Driver is off dispersion wise. But even then he can fall back to a 4hy off the tee and still score. Distance is KING. I have redone my swing a few times now in a quest for more of it. So yes it is absolutely a skill. And a very useful one too.

 

[Jason89er]

Yep. The only thing that really stands out to me is the distance.... I don't think I've seen a golfer playing under say a 5 who couldn't just crush it. But after they're off the tee, it's just boring golf, and they never actually look like they're going low. You think they're playing somewhere in the 80s, then you talk to them after the rounds and they really just shot something in the 70s.

This is indicative of consistent players. And the quest for distance can rob players of it. It has me a few times. But the distance I have gained overall allows me to shoot 85 or below just about every round. Especially if my putter gets hot. I would take 240 off the tee all day every day. Would push me over the top scoring wise. I kill it on Par 3s and Par 5s GIRs by laying up and/or trying to make Par not birdie. But Par 4s make up 12 of 18 holes. So I’m scrambling on those most of the time. It’s quite maddening.

 

[*Range Rat]

... If you can’t golf that ball off the tee at least 230-240 consistently you have little to no chance of getting to a single digit hcp. Unless you have an elite to tour level short game and putting skills...

I must be the exception to this 'rule'.

 

[Chef23]

I’ve said it on many other posts and your story (very well told BTW!) is indicative of this fact as well. Distance is KING. If you can’t golf that ball off the tee at least 230-240 consistently you have little to no chance of getting to a single digit hcp. Unless you have an elite to tour level short game and putting skills. Even then it’s a maybe. I play with my best bud every week and have watched him become a seriously better player by turning his Driver into an absolute weapon. 270 is nothing to him now. And he regularly beats me and goes under 80 quite a bit. Only time he struggles is when his Driver is off dispersion wise. But even then he can fall back to a 4hy off the tee and still score. Distance is KING. I have redone my swing a few times now in a quest for more of it. So yes it is absolutely a skill. And a very useful one too.

I agree that distance is important but not the only way to get to single digit. My Shotscope data says my actual average is 218 yards. My Performance Average is 233. I am at the point where distance is preventing me from being a 0-2 but getting under 10 is certainly achievable.

 

[Iceman!]

@darthweasel Here is what I like about your posts.
You are not just out playing golf looking around nonchalantly.
You're paying attention to your surroundings and the other golfers in your foursome.
You're asking the question - "What do they know, that I don't, that they can tell me without me asking"?
I think I learn more about game and the course by just paying attention to what's happening in front of you.
What can I "Gleam off" of a better golfer? - do they have a better way to get around a course than I do?


I remember Tiger talking about his last win at The Masters (Cue the Jim Nance Voice).
He talked about how he was on the green on Hole #11 and watched ball being hit on to Hole #12.
He could tell what clubs the group before him were hitting just by the trajectory of the shots.
It gave him insight on what club he should use.

 

[darthweasel]

enjoying reading the responses. one thing that catches my attention...to me what they were doing did not look like "boring golf" and indeed is more or less what i aspire to. It wasn't like they were hitting every fairway and, in fact, on at least two holes deliberately played to a different hole to get a better angle and on one hole two of us missed the fairway on purpose and two didn't care if they were in fairway or rough (short hole with junk in front and beside that the angle really, really matters)

to me it looked like skilled golf where the misses were accounted for and the mis-strikes were fewer...not zero. For example on ten the guy who went 68 skulled his approach over the green into a really awkward ball below the feet sidehill lie in deep rough...nowhere near what he drew up. Ended up making bogey on the hole. A couple times going for longer fives the "mishit" meant coming up a bit short and right/left as the shot shape demanded. But overall...it looked like fun golf to me

 

[darthweasel]

@darthweasel Here is what I like about your posts.
You are not just out playing golf looking around nonchalantly.
You're paying attention to your surroundings and the other golfers in your foursome.
You're asking the question - "What do they know, that I don't, that they can tell me without me asking"?
I think I learn more about game and the course by just paying attention to what's happening in front of you.
What can I "Gleam off" of a better golfer? - do they have a better way to get around a course than I do?


I remember Tiger talking about his last win at The Masters (Cue the Jim Nance Voice).
He talked about how he was on the green on Hole #11 and watched ball being hit on to Hole #12.
He could tell what clubs the group before him were hitting just by the trajectory of the shots.
It gave him insight on what club he should use.

Oh, I do. I pretty much have an awareness of who is doing what and most likely outcomes. I am matched with a lot of randoms and...well, for example, a week or two ago was matched with a husband/wife who had a side-bet going. I was thinking about the break on a putt and overheard the lady saying she could not remember what she was lying and the husband admit he wasn't sure where he was either...I was able to walk them through the shots they had each taken to get there...and followed up with "but I am eminently bribable. Whoever bribes me more will for sure have taken fewer shots". Got my cheap laugh out of it...

 

[jbb2388]

Great thread. The thing I have noticed most about better players...say under 5 index...is they normally do everything at least fairly well. They may putt better than they drive the ball or their ball striking is better than their short games, but even their weakest parts of their games are usually serviceable at the very least.

 

[echico]

I’ve said it on many other posts and your story (very well told BTW!) is indicative of this fact as well. Distance is KING. If you can’t golf that ball off the tee at least 230-240 consistently you have little to no chance of getting to a single digit hcp. Unless you have an elite to tour level short game and putting skills. Even then it’s a maybe. I play with my best bud every week and have watched him become a seriously better player by turning his Driver into an absolute weapon. 270 is nothing to him now. And he regularly beats me and goes under 80 quite a bit. Only time he struggles is when his Driver is off dispersion wise. But even then he can fall back to a 4hy off the tee and still score. Distance is KING. I have redone my swing a few times now in a quest for more of it. So yes it is absolutely a skill. And a very useful one too.

Distance is important but I have seen a lot of players score in the 70's with a 225 yd max drive. They may not be doing it from the tips but they know what their game is and how to maximize their abilities. I do think distance is a vital part of the game but it is something that can adjusted for by using the appropriate tee boxes.

 

[Acesteve]

The beasts that bomb it +275 that I've played with were impressive and fun in a scramble but not the best scores. best scores were the guys that appear boring to watch but they are not making many errors and proximity to pin was very good.

I've played with some great true Senior golfers and I notice with them they are sneaky long. they have learned to take spin off the driver and get a lot of run out.

 

[BigMac]

The beasts that bomb it +275 that I've played with were impressive and fun in a scramble but not the best scores. best scores were the guys that appear boring to watch but they are not making many errors and proximity to pin was very good.

I've played with some great true Senior golfers and I notice with them they are sneaky long. they have learned to take spin off the driver and get a lot of run out.

One of my buddies brought his son out to play with us the other day. He's in his 20s and is an absolute bomber, was outdriving me by 75-100 yards every time. But the problem is that he's also wild AF, and about half of his drives were OB. Compounding his problems was that he can't do anything with it after the drive - his iron play is tragic, and his short game isn't much better. It was fun to watch him hit driver, but everything after that was a huge WTF.