Any recent highlights? It's cool if don't want to say. It's not much a part of my life these days, but has afforded me some pretty interesting experiences, for a midwesterner.
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unions - are you a member of yours?
Any recent highlights? It's cool if don't want to say. It's not much a part of my life these days, but has afforded me some pretty interesting experiences, for a midwesterner.
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I think unions are one of those topics people have strong feelings about. Some will love their union or any union for the protection they give. Others will not because of their dealings with said unions. Some unions are over the top protective of employees even when they know they shouldn’t be. Others are incredibly weak and don’t help their members much at all. its all over the place depending on what type of union and how much leverage they truly have.
My uncle has been a president and had other positions in his teamster union for as long as I can remember and I have been told of stories that remind you of days long past in movies that he was involved with. Those days are long gone thankfully.
Me personally, I have never been in a union. Only on the other side of the table with management. I think in certain areas unions are necessary to keep businesses in check, but can also over step and keep a business from running more efficiently.
I live on the fence in many things in life. Unions is one of those areas.
My uncle has been a president and had other positions in his teamster union for as long as I can remember and I have been told of stories that remind you of days long past in movies that he was involved with. Those days are long gone thankfully.
Me personally, I have never been in a union. Only on the other side of the table with management. I think in certain areas unions are necessary to keep businesses in check, but can also over step and keep a business from running more efficiently.
I live on the fence in many things in life. Unions is one of those areas.
Unions that overprotect bad employees give all unions a bad name. And it breeds more bad employees because everybody starts feeling like they're untouchable and can do anything they want without repercussions. Good employees see the bad employees getting away with it and it causes them to wonder why they should bother to keep their noses clean and/or try to excel at their job when the bad ones get treated the same way they do. Thus, you get a toxic culture of apathy and mediocrity.
Unions should fight tooth and nail for employees who are being unfairly railroaded, but the bad ones need to go and everybody around them needs to know WHY they're gone (the rumor mill usually takes care of that quite well). A good union will strike a balance between being too strong and too weak in their employee representation.
I haven't caught the entire exchange, but the word 'overprotect' jumps out at me. I mean, how do you define it? My wife's job was to defend her fellow members who were fired/furloughed/whatever for ANY reason. They all knew who the bad employees (and members) were, but she couldn't just not defend them and get their job back because they kind of suck. Every job had to be protected/defended, regardless of who held it.
I'm not trying to argue, and have never been in a union leadership role, I'm just curious how you go about 'getting those people out' while operating within the parameters of union job duties and agreements.
Of course the union represented any employee in all disciplinary matters - but they also knew full well that there were some cases where the employee was a goner due to their actions. They would still do their best to represent them and make sure that the disciplinary action was sound both procedurally and evidentially. The union reps have discovery rights, so they get to see the entire case and prepare for the disciplinary process, so they already know what they're facing. They also get to ask questions during the disciplinary hearings to clarify and ensure that everything is on the up and up. The reps are trained and experienced, so they know from past cases what level of discipline an employee is likely looking at. They'll offer the best representation they can, but at the same time they have to be realistic and not diminish their credibility with management by fighting what they both know is clearly a losing battle in an iron-clad case. If it's a borderline case (in terms of level of discipline) they may ask for a reduction from dismissal to a suspension, or from a suspension to a formal written reprimand - sometimes they'll get it, sometimes they won't.
Think of it like a criminal case where a guy robs a bank with no mask on, is caught on multiple video cameras, drops his wallet with his ID in it in the bank, runs outside and gets arrested with the gun and demand note in his pocket and a bag of cash with an exploded dye pack all over it, and thirty witnesses from the bank all positively ID him as the guy who just did the stickup. A defense attorney will still take his case and they'll go through the motions to make sure he was afforded all his rights and there are no procedural/evidentiary holes in the case, but in the end they know the dude's goose is cooked. The "wasn't me!" defense is going to be a hard sell in the face of that kind of evidence because he'd look like a fool. Best case scenario would most likely be a plea bargain to a lesser offense.
For chronically bad/underperforming employees, we had what is called "progressive discipline". You're verbally counseled by a supervisor, and if it continues it's noted on your monthly written evaluation with a "needs improvement" rating and an explanation. No improvement, next step is a formal written reprimand from a manager and the employee is put on re-training with daily/weekly monitoring and evaluation for anywhere from 1-3 months. If the suckage continues, an adverse action is initiated (suspension or reduction in pay). If they still haven't gotten on board and the behavior continues, a dismissal package is initiated and will contain documentation of all the progressive discipline which led up to it. The dismissal package goes through multiple levels of review and the ultimate decision rests with top management (think CEO/President as the equivalent), who ultimately makes the decision whether or not to dismiss the employee. So for sucky employees, they have plenty of warning that it's coming and have been given plenty of opportunities to fix it before it reaches that point - and there's a mountain of documentation to justify their dismissal. It's a lot more involved than just "You suck, you're fired".
Yep. There is good and bad with them... all I've dealt with is the inconvenience of their actions and the aftermath... like when an airline isn't flying because their mechanic's union goes on strike and a second and third portion strike in sympathy. Or when the UAW is in contract negotiations with GM and there's a walkout for 40 days... like what happened in September of last year.
Sure, there are work arounds... I could have drive to where I needed to fly or taken a different airline... and I could buy a Ford or Ram if I want a truck...
We had a no-strike clause in our contract, so we couldn't strike even if we wanted to. Not only that, but it was written into our contract that anybody who organized or participated in a work slowdown (or anything similar like an organized "sick-out", for example) could be fired for it.
They have no choice. By law they have to fight to protect all employees, regardless of how bad they think someone may be.
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Sure. Name a big action movie in the past 20 years and there is a good chance I was in the camera dept. I jumped ship from camera when my wife got pregnant in 2016. Since I've transitioned to directing I've only done some TV and commercials. I've got a feature in the pipeline that is supposed to shoot in Morocco early next year, but everything seems to be on hold. I've also got a show in development at FX, and working on a crime syndicate based mini-series with the team that did the Hunger Games films.
I imagine, once things get busy again, I'll get lots of calls for episodic TV, but I don't want to fall into that void. It's steady work and great money, but it's not where I want to spend the rest of my life.
The only time I was in a union was when I worked at a grocery store in Illinois during HS. It was a union shop. No union affiliation since then.
No options for unions in my field. I might look at one if they ever existed and were effective
Sure, but the union reps can also be realistic about the situation and best possible outcome of individual cases. I've seen some where they recommended the employee resign in lieu of termination because there was zero chance of them keeping their job and it would better their chances of regaining employment elsewhere.
Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. AMFA is a craft union meaning they will only represent aircraft mechanics and those in our craft classification. I belonged to other unions who would represent literally anyone and they sucked. No political leanings or donations which is good. Dues money goes to protecting and improving my trade.
In my experiences it all boils down to the local chapter leadership and industry. Although I've never been a part of one, I have worked with them quite a bit through my years. The biggest problem I've witnessed is the human condition. People that suck and have an agenda will always suck driving their agenda. Pro union or not.
My wife couldn't do that. Literally not allowed to do something like that, only defend. She's a nice person, and did anything she could to help along those lines I'm sure, but it wasn't allowed. Advise on options only, without recommendation.
The big thing for her union was that every job, no matter who held it, had to be defended, because anytime someone lost their claim, the chance that job just wouldn't be filled again skyrocketed. If it was essential to operations, and the company could wiggle it around their agreement, they would just make it a non-union position going forward. Every loss was likely one less union job.
That would be a very unenviable position to be put in, it's difficult when an employer has you over a barrel like that! As we can see from the conversation in this thread, experiences with unions (and the conditions they operate under) vary widely, which makes different perceptions of them completely understandable.
Matthew
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Nope, my industry has a union but between GA & TX you'd be hard pressed to find anyone willing to join. Plus sales guy, I handle my own negotiations.
Not a union member and never have been. I think they are responsible for a lot of the benefits we now receive. But like others, I prefer a system where we can control our own value as an employee.
Northerner
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I do not like my union. They are more about pushing an agenda I'm entirely against than they are about doing what they're supposed to be doing.