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Who hits blades/muscle backs better

SuperStroke
I came to a conclusion in late September of this year that the rate I was making changes for what clubs were in my golf bag were: 1) ruining the quality of my golf, 2) resulting in the game being a lot less fun for me. I decided then that I was going to have a stable bag for 2019 and that I wanted to move to an iron set that prioritized good looks and feels while keeping at least some level of forgiveness.

I decided on the 716 AP2s on close out coming from primarily using G15s previously. I know the AP2s do not belong in a conversation about true blades or muscleback irons, but they are not that far off and are FAR closer to that standard than the G15. My AP2s were delivered in mid-October and I was able to use them a couple times before the season ended.

The sample size is clearly small, but what I know is:

a) I shot a 44 with them which is one stroke off last season's best round of 43
b) Through my 9 hole round and a couple 4 hole loops my GIR was 35% versus 21% overall for 2018

I'm committed to using the AP2s in 2019. Will my game get significantly better because of them? I don't think so. I've concluded that irons appear to make very little difference towards scoring. I know that I like them better though. That is enough for me.

DT
 
While not blades I’ve found more success with more of a players profile than GI irons.
 
Tenputt said:
Aside from the looks, because everybody loves the aesthetics of a blade, who can honestly say that they actually hit a blade better than a perimeter weighted club? By better, I mean just as far, due to launch conditions, more consistent distance control, etc.
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Better as in day to day? No way, not for me.

But on days when I'm swinging well, the results from a blade or muscle back were indeed better.

Easier to shape when necessary and flight shots. When on, shots and their execution seemed more intuitive. Chipping and short pitches are light years better for me.

But overall, round to round, my scores are better with the additional help.
 
Sean said:
As far as distance goes, a blade/MB will probably not go as far given that the lofts are usually weaker then in GI's and SGI's.
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This is my experience. My cleveland 588mb set is 4* weaker in loft than my srixon 545 set. For me that equates to one club. The 588mb pw is 48* and the 545 pw is 44*.
 
I think it depends on your skill level. But, I think for the vast majority of golfers the more forgiving irons are better - especially on mishits. I just picked up a set of MacGregor VIP irons - which were the irons I played my best golf with when I was younger. It was a great deal and I was curious to hit them. I played my original set until some of the grooves were being worn away. The irons I play now are a set of Ben Hogan PTX irons. They seem to be a cross between forgiving irons and a forged blade. Now, at 63 years of age I play a graphite shaft. The MacGregor's are stiff steel shafts. My distance is about 5 yards less with the MacGregor's than the Hogans. I am going to try and attach a picture of the irons. When I hit the MacGregors flush I find that the distances are very close and the feeling is incredible. However, when I miss you can really feel it as well.
 
In my younger, single years when I was playing 30+ rounds each month and getting lots of range time, I hit blades better. Even if I had that kind of time and physical ability/stamina today, I wouldn’t be playing them throughout the set. There are so many great looking irons that look like blades but have some perimeter weighting for forgiveness. Many of us play a muscle back design in our wedges but few of us are truly good enough to do so in a 4 iron loft. I love the mix I have of forgiveness playing my Z565 4, 5, and 6 iron that progressively get more muscle back like with the Z765 short irons.

Of course I still see a few guys who’s egos require that they play blades throughout the entire set. Play whatever makes you happy!
 
I can't say I hit one better than the other. I hit the middle of the club face fairly consistently. I have always just left it open, more on my driver/FW. I do find the blades/mbs are easier to square up or slightly close at impact. Which is good for me. But, I do think you have to swing harder/faster through impact to hit the lower lofted irons an appropriate distance and heights...and that does lead to arrant shots.
 
... Most of these threads are about personal opinions, and usually only from the perspective of the person posting. Of course nothing wrong with that but it applies to the poster only. Club Fitters and those of us that taught golf have a different opinion. There are two things I find disingenuous in every MB thread I have read. The first is comparing MB's to SGI irons which are 2 extremes and rarely, if ever is anyone trying to choose between these two. Even GI's are a stretch for many. The comparison should be between MB's and Players Irons which actually have similar sized heads. Greens in Regulation for 6 of the top 7 on the PGA tour use Players Irons because their mishits are better. We are talking the best ball strikers in the world and most of them still prefer a little help with their less than perfect swings.

... The second disingenuous statement is playing MB's help the player to focus better because they get sloppy with forgiving irons. This has zero to do with the clubs and everything to do with discipline. You are either trying to hit the best shot possible which calls for your best swing or you are just recklessly over swinging and that is never a good idea with any club. When I taught full time, I compared it to trying to hit home runs in baseball. The best hitters try to hit the ball solid, making their best swing and Home Runs are a result of making a great swing with solid contact, not trying to oversewing and hit homers which rarely works. I will also always remember DLIII saying when he needed a really big drive he slowed his swing down just a hair and concentrated on perfect contact. Considering you can lose 3-5 yds for every 1/4" you miss the center it is a great swing thought. So while some may indeed swing recklessly with GI or SGI irons, that is a mental/discipline problem not a club problem. Even though my P790's are categorized as Players Distance Irons, I have never tried to hit them any harder than the many sets of MB's I have played. They do produce more distance, especially in the long irons but that is a result of club head design, not because I am swinging harder.

... I think it is pretty simple really. Find the irons that give you the best combination of spin, trajectory and consistent distance on your typical mishits. I am not talking about hitting it way out on the toe (unless that IS your typical mishit). My mishit tends to be just a little thin and the difference is very obvious between my P790's and MP63's which really are MB's with just a hint of a cavity without any perimeter weighting as I said in a review I wrote for Mizuno when they first came out. They are thin soled and one piece of solid metal and night and day different than my P790's where slightly thin hits are almost as good as perfect strikes. And if I am really having a bad back day I will contact 1/2" or more toward the toe and again those strikes are very penal with my MP63's compared to my P790's.

... As always with MB threads, I believe people should play the irons that give them the most enjoyment and clearly some find that enjoyment with MB's. But as far as calling them better for ball striking please don't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it is raining.
 
Sharing a training technique from a sport played with a bat and a ball that is not popular/played in the US. The training procedure involves using a bat that is 1/4 in width (probably smaller) and using a golf ball (instead of using a ball the size of a baseball). Dramatically improves hand eye coordination, arc of the swing, and body position. If anything is out of sync, you either don’t hit the ball or barely make contact with the ball. This practice technique was used by unarguably the greatest player of the game.

I would think that this would also be applicable in golf. One could use a blade-like iron to practice, to some extent, so one can improve swing dynamics and strike location. Not saying don’t practice with the irons one uses regularly, just that some time spent practicing with a much smaller MB iron may help improve the centeredness of the strike. Obviously, this would mean matching specs like length, lie, swingweight, etc. to your regular irons.

If this works in another sport that requires striking a ball, it should work in golf as well.

This post isn’t exactly on point for this particular thread but is related to the use of MB irons instead of more forgiving options.
 
Another thing I find in golf is that golfers believe that new clubs are going to solve their problems. As a rule the issues we have is in our swing. Having a forgiving club may help limit the loss of distance and direction on your swing but it won’t correct swing problems. Only lessons and mindful practice can do that.

I have been experimenting playing a set of MacGregor VIP like I played when I was younger. I am hitting them consistently more solid and straighter than my newer Hogan PTX irons. However, I am going to continue to compare them and play a round with the vintage irons.

I am very pragmatic and play whatever works the best for me.
 
If you think they make you focus more because of their size, but you need some distance the hollow body clubs are awesome. The T-MB, P790, etc are blade size and feel, but GI forgiveness and length. No reason to not go with the tech these days for us amateurs.
 
Between this thread and the National Custom Works IG posts, I’m now thinking hard about benching my MMCs and reshafting an old set of MP-33s that I have with some PX LZ 6.0s. I only play 6-P in the MMCs with weakened lofts and could use 5-9 with the MP-33s adjusted to the same lofts.


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I hit them better when Im able to practice with them almost every day. IMO, it was mostly due to less turf interaction due to the slimmer sole and more feedback. Nowdays though, where I almost never practice and only play a couple days a week, no way would I play blades.
 
I wish I had the ball striking to play the Titleist CB. For years it has been my favorite club to look at and when struck well my favorite to hit. My miss is thin, and it offers nothing in terms of help. I really think the MB/CB dream for the average golfer all comes back to the theory of playing the smallest thing you can hit well on a consistent basis. That's where I'm at right now at least.
 
KingSinghUNLTD said:
Sharing a training technique from a sport played with a bat and a ball that is not popular/played in the US. The training procedure involves using a bat that is 1/4 in width (probably smaller) and using a golf ball (instead of using a ball the size of a baseball). Dramatically improves hand eye coordination, arc of the swing, and body position. If anything is out of sync, you either don’t hit the ball or barely make contact with the ball. This practice technique was used by unarguably the greatest player of the game.

I would think that this would also be applicable in golf. One could use a blade-like iron to practice, to some extent, so one can improve swing dynamics and strike location. Not saying don’t practice with the irons one uses regularly, just that some time spent practicing with a much smaller MB iron may help improve the centeredness of the strike. Obviously, this would mean matching specs like length, lie, swingweight, etc. to your regular irons.

If this works in another sport that requires striking a ball, it should work in golf as well.

This post isn’t exactly on point for this particular thread but is related to the use of MB irons instead of more forgiving options.
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Having used a thunderstick for batting practice, I agree this is applicable for golf. It's a little tougher, since you need to match clubs, but I've used it in conjunction with one length clubs, and it definitely helps me. I used a $3 goodwill club to test it, but think I'll be getting a real club to exactly match in the near future.
 
I think where a MB iron can shine is distance control and workability. But for the vast majority the distance control is negated by the lack of forgiveness. Workability is by design where no other profile iron can compete with a MB and I think that’s honestly the only advantage a MB iron may have. Also by design, they’re just not gonna have the distance of a CB or hollow body hybrid style iron.

There are outliers out there that may be helped by the added spin, the turf interaction, and ball flight, but they’re definitely outliers. I played MB’s in my mid to short irons last season and put some solid rounds together. Could I have scored better with a little more forgiveness in the bag? I really don’t know, but I had fun playing them. They weren’t longer and they were much more punishing on mishits, but I say play what you like. You can have fun on the course with blades or shovels if you have the right attitude.
 
I wish I had a good enough iron game to play MB's but I like the confidence of having some of that added forgiveness. There are so many good options out there that give that forgiveness plus the feel and control most people want that I don't think it hurts to go that route.

But as always it comes down to what you like and what makes you happy.
 
I absolutely used to love hitting blades, and played them exclusively for years. There's nothing that feels better than a well struck golf shot with a blade.

But... there is also nothing that feels worse than an offcenter strike with a blade. Rattles your fillings loose.

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I wouldn't say I hit blades better, but I don't find them as hard to hit as I should. The main drawback I've found when hitting blades is that my left/right misses are amplified.
 
Honestly, I cannot say that I ever have gamed a set of blades. I started playing later in life (28 years old) in 1986 and Ping Eye 2s were the iron to have. Soon thereafter, the Silver Scott 845s were THE iron. As soon as I became somewhat proficient, I played the 845s for years. By then, all the manufacturers were promoting perimeter weighting.

This is not the first time this type of thread has been posted. The discussion is an old one. I started it because as I was considering what to choose for my Morgan Cup irons, I happened into my local shop and there sat a set of the Cobra cb/mb irons that somebody had traded in. I took the 7 iron over to the launch monitor and started swinging away. I was actually surprised at how well I was hitting it. Draw after draw, with very consistent distances. The dispersion was incredibly good. I was shocked. Of course, hitting a 7 iron on a mat in perfect conditions is much different than gaming the club on the golf course, but I just wanted to throw the topic up for discussion again for fun. Logic tells me I could never hit that iron that well in real golf as I was hitting it on the monitor, but if I could, I would be hitting as many greens as I do with my current players distance irons.
 
Tenputt said:
Honestly, I cannot say that I ever have gamed a set of blades. I started playing later in life (28 years old) in 1986 and Ping Eye 2s were the iron to have. Soon thereafter, the Silver Scott 845s were THE iron. As soon as I became somewhat proficient, I played the 845s for years. By then, all the manufacturers were promoting perimeter weighting.

This is not the first time this type of thread has been posted. The discussion is an old one. I started it because as I was considering what to choose for my Morgan Cup irons, I happened into my local shop and there sat a set of the Cobra cb/mb irons that somebody had traded in. I took the 7 iron over to the launch monitor and started swinging away. I was actually surprised at how well I was hitting it. Draw after draw, with very consistent distances. The dispersion was incredibly good. I was shocked. Of course, hitting a 7 iron on a mat in perfect conditions is much different than gaming the club on the golf course, but I just wanted to throw the topic up for discussion again for fun. Logic tells me I could never hit that iron that well in real golf as I was hitting it on the monitor, but if I could, I would be hitting as many greens as I do with my current players distance irons.
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As a 5.1 cap there's no reason why you should be unable to hit a CB/MB set well, particularly a iron as high as a 7.

Golf company marketing campaigns are over the top trying to get people to think that their GI/SGI irons incredible advancements in forgiveness and distance will save your golf game. Some forum users, mostly on other forums, are like blade evangelists trying to get everyone to use them. Others act as though only Adam Scott and plus handicaps have any business using anything besides GI/SGI irons. Both extremes are over the top. Use what you like. Personally, I think irons make very little impact to your overall score.

DT
 
dthrog00 said:
As a 5.1 cap there's no reason why you should be unable to hit a CB/MB set well, particularly a iron as high as a 7.

Golf company marketing campaigns are over the top trying to get people to think that their GI/SGI irons incredible advancements in forgiveness and distance will save your golf game. Some forum users, mostly on other forums, are like blade evangelists trying to get everyone to use them. Others act as though only Adam Scott and plus handicaps have any business using anything besides GI/SGI irons. Both extremes are over the top. Use what you like. Personally, I think irons make very little impact to your overall score.

DT
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Agreed, and fine post :)
 
Tenputt said:
Honestly, I cannot say that I ever have gamed a set of blades. I started playing later in life (28 years old) in 1986 and Ping Eye 2s were the iron to have. Soon thereafter, the Silver Scott 845s were THE iron. As soon as I became somewhat proficient, I played the 845s for years. By then, all the manufacturers were promoting perimeter weighting.

This is not the first time this type of thread has been posted. The discussion is an old one. I started it because as I was considering what to choose for my Morgan Cup irons, I happened into my local shop and there sat a set of the Cobra cb/mb irons that somebody had traded in. I took the 7 iron over to the launch monitor and started swinging away. I was actually surprised at how well I was hitting it. Draw after draw, with very consistent distances. The dispersion was incredibly good. I was shocked. Of course, hitting a 7 iron on a mat in perfect conditions is much different than gaming the club on the golf course, but I just wanted to throw the topic up for discussion again for fun. Logic tells me I could never hit that iron that well in real golf as I was hitting it on the monitor, but if I could, I would be hitting as many greens as I do with my current players distance irons.
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I believe the two iron models you mention (Eye 2 and 845) are as good as any iron model sold new today. Specifically, both the Eye 2 and 845 offered forgiveness from mishit shots yet were of small enough head to design to be relatively easy to swing-square-at-impact. These two iron models were enjoyed for years by all skill level players, from beginner to Tour pro.
 
dthrog00 said:
As a 5.1 cap there's no reason why you should be unable to hit a CB/MB set well, particularly a iron as high as a 7.

Golf company marketing campaigns are over the top trying to get people to think that their GI/SGI irons incredible advancements in forgiveness and distance will save your golf game. Some forum users, mostly on other forums, are like blade evangelists trying to get everyone to use them. Others act as though only Adam Scott and plus handicaps have any business using anything besides GI/SGI irons. Both extremes are over the top. Use what you like. Personally, I think irons make very little impact to your overall score.

DT
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This is a fair perspective for sure, but like anything in golf equipment there are no absolutes.
I think with irons the devil really lies in the details. While not all players will see the same benefits from the higher launch and lower spin of a hollow body GI iron, I don't think I can deny that they are potentially revolutionary for some golfers. Further, if you play a course with a ton of forced carries into greens, that little bit of added ball speed on misses could be a life saver.


I think in general though I will agree that the gap between the two isn't as gargantuan as it can be made out to be.
 
dthrog00 said:
As a 5.1 cap there's no reason why you should be unable to hit a CB/MB set well, particularly a iron as high as a 7.

Golf company marketing campaigns are over the top trying to get people to think that their GI/SGI irons incredible advancements in forgiveness and distance will save your golf game. Some forum users, mostly on other forums, are like blade evangelists trying to get everyone to use them. Others act as though only Adam Scott and plus handicaps have any business using anything besides GI/SGI irons. Both extremes are over the top. Use what you like. Personally, I think irons make very little impact to your overall score.

DT
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There is a lot of truth in what you say about the impact of irons on score. I played an 18 hole round just before Christmas and I hit irons ranging between 5 and 8 only 7 times. The rest were short irons and wedges, or a hybrid on long par 3s.
 
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