Swing changes - Physical or Mental?

So I suffer from early extension (standing up on my downswing and losing spine angle). I've been trying to fix it for months without much luck, so in the past few days I've been watching practically every YouTube video I can find on how to fix it. It's funny, they basically come in 2 categories.

Something like this, where he basically gives you a drill to do 100 times a day for 30 days, and then adds on to it, another 100 times a day for 30 days.


And then you get someone like Shawn Clement, who basically says don't worry about doing drills or trying to feel like your backside is staying behind you, but imagine you're clipping the grass in front of the ball and then cutting down into it, and your body will take care of the rest naturally (though he does have a 'drill' of hitting two balls/pennies)


Which theory do you guys prescribe to? I would love to imagine that I can fix it by just imagining myself taking divots and my body responding, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to go the route of repeated drills to get the sequencing right.

I really like Shawn Clement. Been following him and his instructions for a few years now.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

I'll have to follow along and see what the responses/tips are.

For me it's all mental. Played Sat/Sun with the NorCal group the end of Jan. Saturday you would have thought my swing coach was Barry Bonds. I had a couple of swings that if the clubhead was below my knees I would be shocked. That mess was strictly caused from trying to "kill" it. Sunday, I relaxed and struck the ball well.

Interesting discussion. My current instructor is like the top guy and my prior instructor was like the bottom guy. I am leaning toward the bottom guy having it right. I think it is harder to learn new muscle memory and have it stick than it is to visualize and perform an action which ultimately makes your body move a particular way.

Probably both. Though you can't take the first guy's method to the course.

I like Mike Malaska's thought on the swing - you need to get into certain positions in the down swing and at impact to produce decent shots. However, the positions you see on camera during a swing are effects, NOT causes. They should happen naturally if you are doing other things correctly.

Are you topping the ball then? I would have say that it's both a mental and physical drill. I actually do the drill from the first video as a warm up for my back but it does also help me with my spine angle and keep me from moving my head. I did like the drill from the video below with the pennies. I would suggest that you take your stance lower than you usually do and try a few practice swings. Maybe feeling that weight in your legs more (like a squat) will help you stay down and swing through...

A little of both for me. When I try to focus on positions I end up not producing the shots I want.
Now when I focus on a good thought which for me is to exaggerate swinging to right field, I get great results and maintain my spine angle throughout.
I'll be honest though, I think you have to take an approach of both. I've done countless reps at home to get these positions close.
Practice positions with lots of reps and then tell your brain to focus on a particular thought and it should cone together eventually.
A trained eye will help with this of course.
Golf is hard. Embrace the suck that comes with change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do think different people resonate with different teaching styles, so I don't think there's one answer.

But that said, I think Shawn Clement absolutely has the right way to think about the golf swing for most people. Your brain is amazing. It will do amazing things if you can give it the right task and get out of the way. Getting too focused on positions and numbers is a recipe for disaster.

*Disclaimer: I consider myself a friend of Shawn.

wadesworld said:

I do think different people resonate with different teaching styles, so I don't think there's one answer.

But that said, I think Shawn Clement absolutely has the right way to think about the golf swing for most people. Your brain is amazing. It will do amazing things if you can give it the right task and get out of the way. Getting too focused on positions and numbers is a recipe for disaster.

*Disclaimer: I consider myself a friend of Shawn.

Click to expand...

I took a lesson with Shawn a few years back. He definitely has the right approach however I still think you need a combo of both approaches to make positive changes. I'm going through this now and the last few months at Golftec. It's been a journey.

Again this is just my opinion. I'm far from an expert in this field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

azrsx said:

Are you topping the ball then?

Click to expand...

I don't actually top it that much, mostly just a lot of inconsistency and lack of distance with a high ball flight. You remember the wind pushing my drives at around at Spivey's course? haha

wadesworld said:

II think Shawn Clement absolutely has the right way to think about the golf swing for most people. Your brain is amazing. It will do amazing things if you can give it the right task and get out of the way. Getting too focused on positions and numbers is a recipe for disaster.

*Disclaimer: I consider myself a friend of Shawn.

Click to expand...

A buddy of mine followed Shawn's videos religiously, to where he could quote some of them word for word and it worked great for him. I tried for a while but it just didn't click as well as I would have liked.

I think both methods can be effective but it will always be up to the student and how they learn best/quickest. I prefer the bottom method because it's less of a grind, but ultimately you NEED to build that muscle memory like the top guy suggests if you're ever going to truly turn the corner.
In my limited experience the top method works best if you are going to see your instructor every couple weeks for a 3-6 month period, but if you just want to take a few lessons over the course of the year the bottom method is easier to implement.

ken_h said:

A buddy of mine followed Shawn's videos religiously, to where he could quote some of them word for word and it worked great for him. I tried for a while but it just didn't click as well as I would have liked.

Click to expand...

I think the problem is not the instruction, but trying to learn concepts from a video. I can tell you from experience that in-person lessons with Shawn are amazing and far more effective than a video. But obviously I think that's true with any instructor.

With videos you often fail to execute the concept, even though you think you're doing it perfectly. That's my big takeaway from working with Shawn in person. Obviously videos are better than nothing, but it's hard sometimes to really buy into what the video says. For example, I'll watch a video and Shawn says "give up control." Then you practice it, but you think, "Surely he doesn't REALLY mean to give up control?" But he does, and since you're not doing it correctly, you don't the results for which you were hoping and decide it doesn't work.

But if I had to do that drill the guy advocates in the first video, I think I'd kill myself.

I think both videos fail to address the issue. I think Shawn is spot on but leaves out too much or the causality of early extension.

By the time you get to the point of early extension a number of things have already gone wrong in the swing. And it begins with proper setup and stance. By fixing this you already remove the tendency to stand tall at impact. Why? Because proper setup, stance, weight distribution allows the golfer to make a complete TURN away from the ball to get the club to the top. It allows you to feel the weight transfer from left to right on the back swing and back on the down. Maintaining the proper setup through the swing enables the golfer to create the space needed to make a free and power swing without trying to help the swing by swinging hard from top.

Think about this way. When you set up to the ball. There are angles created with knees and hips. Both of which are equally important angles to maintain throughout the swing. If you lose the knee angle or flex on the back swing or down swing you've changed your swing plane and the amount of space you have to swing the club. If you lose the hip angle by drawing the shoulders (chest)back, on the back or through swing, you will also limit your swing space. And thereby have to stand tall to create the room needed swing the club. The loss of these angles is directly affecting the down swing loss of lag and posture. Maintain the angles and you won't stand tall. Keep the chest moving over the ball as it rotates to the left, you won't stand tall. Stop trying to kill the balk with upper body speed and you won't stand tall.

You can do 100 drills to stop early extension but without know and fixing the root cause, it wouldn't matter.


#TEAMSNELL aka #TeamGreen

Dammit, I wish I could come see you for a lesson Freddie

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

ken_h said:

Dammit, I wish I could come see you for a lesson Freddie

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I'm here if you want to post a video.


#TEAMSNELL aka #TeamGreen

Tadashi70 said:

I'm here if you want to post a video.


#TEAMSNELL aka #TeamGreen

Click to expand...

I'll try to get one in the next few days, thanks!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I have been working on overcoming this for over 2 years and am only about 50% of the way there. I tried the Shawn Clement method but couldn't make it work. In my case I definitely think it is physical.

Tadashi nailed it. For me it was caused as I completed my back swing. I would let my hips slide in a couple of inches as I reached the top of the backswing to relieve the strain in my left hip and back (I play RH). Once that happened, it was all over. Every move after that was a compensation move to correct for that and my setup was thrown out the window. I have had to strengthen and stretch my back to allow a complete backswing while maintaining my angles. It is not easy as it sounds and even after 2 years I'm not quite where I want to be. I also need to eliminate the desire to smash the ball with my upper body. That may be the hardest part. It's how I have always played.

There is NO easy fix. Overcoming this requires strengthening my thighs and glutes to support my hips and upper body during the turn, AND dramatically stretching out every muscle from my wrists, forearms, shoulders, triceps, down my back down to my tail bone so I can freely coil without feeling the need to pull my hips in to relieve the strain. I find it interesting that many guys who played high school sports don't suffer from this. Probably because they developed a solid foundation with their legs to support the movement of their upper bodies during those formative years.

On a technical note...

If you are using an iPhone to record your swing, having it lined up with anything other than your butt line is going to make any early extension appear worse than it may be. The wider angle lens of the iPhone creates converging lines and if the phone is centered on your head, hands or knees, simply turning your hips towards the target will make them appear to move in towards the ball. For the most accurate swing recording I would recommend getting a camera with zoom and putting it as far behind you as possible and zooming in to frame your swing. If all you have is an iPhone, line it up with your butt when working on this.

It requires a lot of work, but I think that the reward will be far more consistent contact. And, on a recent trip to Florida, I saw definite signs of improvement, even with a couple of rounds in the 90's.

Hi Freddie,

Here's my swing from the beginning of my last lesson a couple weeks ago.



There's honestly a lot I don't like about my swing, but I'll keep my comments to myself for now haha.

You are failing to make a full or proper shoulder turn. You are literally turning your shoulders in front of the ball. Your weight remains on your lead leg. This move 100% insures you have to cast the club and stand tall in order to make contact.

You have to work on getting your left shoulder behind the ball and your weight shifted to the right side.

Tadashi70 said:

You are failing to make a full or proper shoulder turn. You are literally turning your shoulders in front of the ball. Your weight remains on your lead leg. This move 100% insures you have to cast the club and stand tall in order to make contact.

You have to work on getting your left shoulder behind the ball and your weight shifted to the right side.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Freddie! Could you clarify what you mean when you say I'm literally turning my shoulders in front of the ball?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

ken_h said:

Thanks for the reply Freddie! Could you clarify what you mean when you say I'm literally turning my shoulders in front of the ball?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Take a look at the video.

There is imaginary line created at the ball. You fail to get behind that line. The below image explains it a little better.