Why play blades?

[JRod]

Fact: Everything that JRod just posted is the truth. He is wise

Nah I just listen to people who know what the hell they are talking about.

 

[Jersey Nate]

What would r11 irons be considered?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

They would be considered as a GI iron, IMO.

 

[omega4]

See this is exactly the type of misinformation that makes this debate so funny. It's been proven time and time again by people both smarter and better than you or I that the way a club is built holds no bearing on how it "feels" yet people continue to swear that forged clubs just feel better.

The process has nothing to do witb it. Its the metal being used.

Generally, softer metals are used in forged clubs.

 

[JRod]

Generally, softer metals are used in forged clubs.

That may be true but you stated as fact tbat no cast club could ever feel as good as a forged club. Most people consider vokeys the softest wedges out there and they are cast.

What gives?

 

[smgoldstein]

When I started playing golf 40 years ago all they had were blades. Love the look and feel of a cleanly designed blade-although I can use the new technology that is now offered.

 

[omega4]

That may be true but you stated as fact tbat no cast club could ever feel as good as a forged club. Most people consider vokeys the softest wedges out there and they are cast.

What gives?

I'm sure there are probably exceptions to every rule. Generally though, forged irons feel softer and better to me than cast irons.

Vokeys feel nice but I don't consider them the softest feeling wedges out there. I can't speak for others that do.

 

[JesseO]

See this is exactly the type of misinformation that makes this debate so funny. It's been proven time and time again by people both smarter and better than you or I that the way a club is built holds no bearing on how it "feels" yet people continue to swear that forged clubs just feel better.

The process has nothing to do witb it. Its the metal being used.

Excuse me if I'm wrong because I'm no expert, but isn't it because that forging requires softer metal that would lead to better feel?

 

[JeffReedMO]

I just moved from a cast iron to a forged iron, and while I am not the worlds best ball striker, I honestly don't get that ringing in my loins that says, "Holy Cow! How did I live so long playing cast irons?". I hit shots with my Razr X Forged that screamed "That felt great", but have also hit shots along the line with my Adams a7 and my prior set, Cleveland TA6, that also screamed "That felt great". If I was able to hit a golf ball blind folded, and you put a forged iron in my hand, and a cast iron in my hand, I would not be able to tell the difference, and if I were a betting man, I would bet the average amateur wouldn't be able to as well. I hit my first forged wedge a week ago, the Mizuno MP-T11. Felt wonderful. Proceeded to hit the TaylorMade ATV an hour later. It too felt wonderful and didn't have any, "Aww man! This just feels harsher than the Mizuno".

I am probably going to regret chiming in on this conversation, but thought I would offer my .02 anyways.

 

[Super Tuna]

For those that keep suggesting that blade irons are more accurate than perimeter weighted irons, can I ask why at the highest level, more players use cavity backs than blades? Are you suggesting that they struggle hitting the sweet spot and need the forgiveness?

I've never asked this question to a Pro so I imagine my answer might not line up with there's but I would expect the blade vs cavity iron for many of them would come down to misses and concentration.

Blades and cavities, at least as I've experienced them, miss differently. Cavities don't waver as much on distance where they sometimes do on direction. When missing with a blade I find that I miss on distance rather then direction. IE I'll be 30 yards short but in line with my target area where with a cavity I'm probably 5 yards either side of my target area but left or right of it. With a Pro's short game, I would expect they would rather miss in this manner where their excellent short game can get them up and down or even hole out from the "miss". If they miss the shot 30 yards short, they might be in the water or a more tricky fairway pot bunker then a "nicer" greenside one.

I would also expect that playing in tournaments puts one under much more pressure. If cavities takes some of the pressure off because they can deal with the "miss" easier in their course management then that can only be a good thing for the on course and the mental game.

I'm also finding that as I'm playing different courses locally that being short rather then being directionally off is getting more and more penalizing. I was fitted for these CB/Blade combo set but I suspect that I'll be eyeing a full CB set shortly, along with a wedge setup change, to change my misses.

Whether this actually applies to Pro's and why they choose what they do, I don't know, it's just my guess. There's actually a neat video over at Team Titleist explaining why Ben Curtis when with the AP1's over the AP2's/CB/MB's in how he swings and what he wants the club to help out with.

I think more people could play blades if they wanted to but I equally think that just because they could, doesn't mean they should for a variety of reasons.

I have yet to see these distance variables I have read about

Really? As I mentioned above, I do. Not on good strikes with either, but there is certainly a distance variation for me when I miss with a blade vs cavity.

It's been proven time and time again by people both smarter and better than you or I that the way a club is built holds no bearing on how it "feels" yet people continue to swear that forged clubs just feel better.

The process has nothing to do witb it. Its the metal being used.

I'd say yes and no. I agree that it doesn't change "feel" but I don't agree that it doesn't change "sound" which then impacts "feel". Not always, but in a number of instances the way a forged club "sounds" when hit is different from cast but that's not a hard and fast rule.

Can I hear the sound difference between the forged Anser's and the cast i20's? Not a chance. Do they "feel" the same to me? Yep.
Can I hear the sound difference between the cast Amp and Amp Forged irons? Yep. Do they "feel" the same to me? Nope. Is that "feel" likely because they sound different? Probably.

One is not better then another and I really couldn't care less as long as the "sound" is correct to me. If they're fitted I'll play a Ping iron of whatever all day long be they forged or cast because I like the sound. I won't do the same with Callaway for example because the sound of say the Razr X's isn't what I'm looking for while the Razr Forged are.

 

[JRod]

Excuse me if I'm wrong because I'm no expert, but isn't it because that forging requires softer metal that would lead to better feel?

Yes and as stated forging generally uses softer metal but that same metal can be cast and feel just as good. Once again its the metal used not the process in which its formed.

 

[Tadashi70]

I think what he meant to say is that he noticed a different feel on well struck shots between forged irons and cast irons. If so, I agree with him.

Pure is pure, if you hit the ball in the sweet spot it feels like it is melting into the club face, forged or cast.

Well I would disagree on that point as well. I wonder if he feels the same way about his wedges, because Vokeys are cast.

I'm with you Jrod

Most amateurs can't tell the difference between a forged or a cast iron. I can though. I am 50% accurate when I guess whether an iron has been cast or forged.

Classic

 

[ATLGolfer]

See this is exactly the type of misinformation that makes this debate so funny. It's been proven time and time again by people both smarter and better than you or I that the way a club is built holds no bearing on how it "feels" yet people continue to swear that forged clubs just feel better.

The process has nothing to do witb it. Its the metal being used.

What's comical is that you're trying to explain how my irons feel to me. Maybe you can start another thread telling me why I should really like Jameson instead of Bushmills.

 

[Jersey Nate]

WOW I can't believe that we are arguing about feel again. It's RELATIVE people! I happen to agree that a perfectly struck shot with a cast iron feels just as soft as one with a forged iron, however the term "feel" is all relative, and this thread has been going nowhere fast....

 

[brian575]

OK what about all of these irons with "driver DNA." What I think they are trying to do is create a spring like effect in irons. Lets say that is actually the case (I have my reservations). It would make an iron have a extra sweet spot like a driver and the ball would jump off the face and go significantly further than if you missed that spot. That may be the cause of the one perfect shot with the GI clubs that goes 2 clubs longer than normal. More likely is for once you actually hit down on the ball and pinched it creating real spin that launched it high and long.

 

[omega4]

Pure is pure, if you hit the ball in the sweet spot it feels like it is melting into the club face, forged or cast.

There is a difference in feel between striking a ball, pure or not, with a club made of softer metals (generally forged irons) v. that of harder metals (generally cast irons).

 

[RxGus]

What's comical is that you're trying to explain how my irons feel to me. Maybe you can start another thread telling me why I should really like Jameson instead of Bushmills.

I think the point of this thread is that golf companies have brainwashed a large amount of the "marketplace" into believing something that is simply not true. Mizuno wants you to worship the forged goodness because they can sell more (and more expensive) clubs to you. I 100% believe the forged argument is bred completely out of marketing and nothing else.

And this coming from someone who loves Mizzies and plays forged irons...

 

[Crazhman]

Some players think they play better if they're comfortable with the look of their irons, especially at address. For some players, blades fit this requirement to a tee.

For me, I believe players' cavity backs offer the same workability of blades but also offer a healthy dose of forgiveness that isn't present with blades. But to each, their own.

I totally agree. My CB's are much more forgiving. When i Mishit with my old blades it kills my hands with feedback. not much fun

 

[Perkins Rooster]

OK what about all of these irons with "driver DNA." What I think they are trying to do is create a spring like effect in irons. Lets say that is actually the case (I have my reservations). It would make an iron have a extra sweet spot like a driver and the ball would jump off the face and go significantly further than if you missed that spot. That may be the cause of the one perfect shot with the GI clubs that goes 2 clubs longer than normal. More likely is for once you actually hit down on the ball and pinched it creating real spin that launched it high and long.

I actually have hit an iron with a COR (spring like effect) identical to a driver of .83 (nope not RBZ irons). I can tell you that for me the sensation (sound & feel) was quite different and there was a significant and consistent incrase in ball height and distance.

 

[RxGus]

There is a difference in feel between striking a ball, pure or not, with a club made of softer metals (generally forged irons) v. that of harder metals (generally cast irons).

Feel is the combination of 2 things: Vibration and sound.

A ball, struck on the perfect CG of an iron has the same vibration pattern/frequency regardless of metal type. That is the definition of CG. The sound is going to vary by the size/shape/resonance of the club head. If you went to the range with ear phones in, you wouldn't be able to tell a well struck cast from a well struck forged.

 

[omega4]

A ball, struck on the perfect CG of an iron has the same vibration pattern/frequency regardless of metal type.

That's incorrect. There is no way you will convince me that metal type does not impact vibration patterns/frequency.

As someone who took courses in Course 2, 8, and 18 at MIT, I know a little about this.

 

[Perkins Rooster]

There is a difference in feel between striking a ball, pure or not, with a club made of softer metals (generally forged irons) v. that of harder metals (generally cast irons).

Funny thing is my Ping i20's which are made of 17-4 steel feel much 'softer' than my old Callaway x-20's.

 

[Jersey Nate]

That's incorrect. There is no way you will convince me that metal type does not impact vibration patterns/frequency.

As someone who took courses in Course 2, 8, and 18 at MIT, I know a little about this.

Regardless of difference in vibration/frequency/golf nerdgasm numbers, feel is all relative, and nobody is right or wrong.

 

[RxGus]

That's incorrect. There is no way you will convince me that metal type does not impact vibration patterns/frequency.

I should add one important caveat: Human Perception

The CG is the point of impact which produces the least vibration (no rotational vibration). While the vibration frequency may differ between metals- when struck on the CG there is simply not enough vibration to differentiate between types of metals. Else where on the club face, where vibrations are magnified, I could buy that you can tell a difference... but not at the CG. By definition, the CG has the least amount of vibration regardless of material.

 

[omega4]

Regardless of difference in vibration/frequency/golf nerdgasm numbers, feel is all relative, and nobody is right or wrong.

I should add one important caveat: Human Perception

I can agree that feel is a relative, subjective measure and subject to human perception, which varies from person to person.

But to ignore the immutable laws of physics and say that the composition of an object does not impact vibration patterns/frequency is frankly ridiculous to suggest.

 

[smgoldstein]

I think if you took a cast club and had it built to look like a forged iron and stamped "Forged" on it many people would not be able to tell the difference.