2013 Morgan Cup - The Ultimate Amateur Golf Event

[JB]

i will say this. Biggsy and SW beat Bradd and I and it was because SW hit some great shots. He is the reason they won IMHO

I dont doubt that for a second. In a scramble there is no question one can gain assistance from both partners. In best ball, it rarely happens through an entire match in my opinion. It certainly can, but it is not the norm. I would also say that you were pretty outspoken about not playing well and we know SW worked hard to get his game to a certain level, hence the reason he went undefeated in the Cup.

As I said, I think its good conversation to have and no decisions have been made, but I do have strong opinions on making sure that all players feel the same pressure this year and even more so than that, that there is actual pressure in each match.

 

[tyno]

as much as alt. shot is downplayed and disliked, IMO it's one of the most pressure packed formats and can really create some interesting holes/scores/scenarios and can be the true test of a golfer's mettle.

heck, what's the difference between your partner setting you up with a bad shot and YOU setting yourself up with a bad shot? it's all about recovering, getting up and down, and not giving up.
i set myself up with bad shots all the time! but i recover and that's golf.

while i'm impartial to the formats (cuz i just want to effing play golf) i think alt. shot could be an interesting day in SC...

 

[Nate]

Love the discussions!!! Add me to the list of alt shot is a tough format to crack. The biggest thing that I think most people are leaving out is that only one shot is played after the drive all the way in. I'm coming to play golf, and as much golf in this format as I can play. Now I'm hitting 2 shots less every hole. Very hard to get a groove going but again that is just me.

 

[Bullfrog]

Oh believe me, there was pressure in every one of my matches. Some had more than others but still there was pressure. I don't know how I survived on Sunday with my nerves and all.

 

[JB]

Love the discussions!!! Add me to the list of alt shot is a tough format to crack. The biggest thing that I think most people are leaving out is that only one shot is played after the drive all the way in. I'm coming to play golf, and as much golf in this format as I can play. Now I'm hitting 2 shots less every hole. Very hard to get a groove going but again that is just me.

This is the one scenario that keeps me looking at other things. However I believe (I truly do) that there is plenty of golf played in Myrtle that week.

 

[Canadan]

I think that causes unnecessary segregation between the groups in a game that segregation is already too strong.

We're not talking about weeks upon weeks of competition here. It's two rounds of team based play. The fact that I would play with a relatively similar handicap hardly screams "Segregation"

Of course its semi avoidable, but outside of alternate shot, there will usually always be a scenario where one player is playing most of the shots in terms of score in team games.

Is that a product of talent or day to day dumb luck? I've seen 2 handicaps shoot in the mid 80s and 15 handicaps shoot in the high 70s.. I've played in scrambles and best balls with handicaps substantially higher than myself and have been watching from OB while they par holes.

I've been reading up a bit on the "Quota" format as shared here..

• 0 – points for a double bogey or more
• 1- point for a bogey
• 2- points for a par
• 4- points for a birdie
• 8 points for an eagle
• 10 points for a hole-in-one

I'm not sure I agree with a point for a bogey, but it offers the ability for players to avoid ruining their partners game, while still needing to be a part of the overall game on each hole. A triple bogey and then a birdie from a high handicapper is worth just as much as two pars from a low capper.

 

[dcbrad]

So because of that, you think in best ball for instance that the same 2 and 17 work? In that instance, the other team would essentially be playing the 2 and I am not sure that works either. We have seen that exact thing the last 2 years in some matches.

You're absolutely right. I think the only reason it's more appealing is because, again, you take the pressure out of the equation. I think a little pressure is a good thing. I think we can all agree, that while it is going to be great to get to know everyone and hang out for a weekend. All four of these teams are going down with winning being the ultimate goal.

But I think in both formats, no matter how well you try to pair people based on handicaps, it boils down to one round of golf, and someone who says their a 4 in their home course area, could play like a 12 for the weekend and visa versa. There are a ton of variables when it comes down to this, I don't envy your job trying to sort it out Josh! This has been a good convo this morning for sure.

 

[One-T]

I dont doubt that for a second. In a scramble there is no question one can gain assistance from both partners. In best ball, it rarely happens through an entire match in my opinion. It certainly can, but it is not the norm. I would also say that you were pretty outspoken about not playing well and we know SW worked hard to get his game to a certain level, hence the reason he went undefeated in the Cup.

As I said, I think its good conversation to have and no decisions have been made, but I do have strong opinions on making sure that all players feel the same pressure this year and even more so than that, that there is actual pressure in each match.

I am not saying one way or another. I am just giving my opinion. Sure, I say that I didnt play well. But I didnt play bad golf. just for my standards, I felt like I didnt play great. He did have a partner that would put them in good positions to make these shots happen.

It all comes down to matchups.

 

[CharlieMoy]

I also think that players feel the need to apologize during alternate shot when they don't play to their strengths and try to do certain things they cannot. Just play what your comfort is, think it out from the green back, develop a plan and execute.

 

[Bullfrog]

as much as alt. shot is downplayed and disliked, IMO it's one of the most pressure packed formats and can really create some interesting holes/scores/scenarios and can be the true test of a golfer's mettle.

heck, what's the difference between your partner setting you up with a bad shot and YOU setting yourself up with a bad shot? it's all about recovering, getting up and down, and not giving up.
i set myself up with bad shots all the time! but i recover and that's golf.

while i'm impartial to the formats (cuz i just want to effing play golf) i think alt. shot could be an interesting day in SC...

So true!

 

[DevRickus]

I know it's not really my place to chime in here but I agree with Tyno's post:

what's the difference between your partner setting you up with a bad shot and YOU setting yourself up with a bad shot? it's all about recovering, getting up and down, and not giving up.
i set myself up with bad shots all the time! but i recover and that's golf.

Seems like alternate shot would create more teamwork and camaraderie as you have to work together and really pull for one another. This is a team event so having pressure and relying on your teammates should be a part of it in my opinion.

 

[Tadashi70]

In a true scramble format, you can keep risk to a minimum. Get one safe out there and the next guy can go for broke without penalty. When you bring alt. shot into play, you eliminate the safety net of your partner. I have to agree with Dan, that if a 2 and a 17 are paired, that 17 is (in theory) is going to be "letting down" the 2.

I think that alt. shot could get hairy if everyone is treated on a level playing field (I think I remember reading a post about last year's match ups being determined that way, "tour style"). You could end up with some lopsided matches if that happens and I don't care who you are, if your match is over by hole 11 or 12, it's not a good feeling, no matter how much "fun" you said you had.

This is obviously commenting purely on how last year's match ups were determined, so this could be a moot point if things have changed. (Which it sounds like they have)

Everyone will be playing the same course and basically the same setup of players. It's not like a (2,17) would run into a (5,6) combo. At least I don't think it would. You are putting too much pressure on shots you or anyone else hasn't even hit. At this point if the formt is alt. shot people are going to be so wound up its not even funny.

It's not about letting your teammate down. It's about lifting them up and enjoying the golf. If you hit it in the woods left. Laugh and wish him luck. He'll mumble something and go find it. At the end if the day we'll add it up and have a beer.

 

[dcbrad]

as much as alt. shot is downplayed and disliked, IMO it's one of the most pressure packed formats and can really create some interesting holes/scores/scenarios and can be the true test of a golfer's mettle.

heck, what's the difference between your partner setting you up with a bad shot and YOU setting yourself up with a bad shot? it's all about recovering, getting up and down, and not giving up.
i set myself up with bad shots all the time! but i recover and that's golf.

while i'm impartial to the formats (cuz i just want to effing play golf) i think alt. shot could be an interesting day in SC...

That's a great point, really hadn't crossed my mind. But it's very true.

 

[JB]

We're not talking about weeks upon weeks of competition here. It's two rounds of team based play. The fact that I would play with a relatively similar handicap hardly screams "Segregation"



Is that a product of talent or day to day dumb luck? I've seen 2 handicaps shoot in the mid 80s and 15 handicaps shoot in the high 70s.. I've played in scrambles and best balls with handicaps substantially higher than myself and have been watching from OB while they par holes.

We actually have not said its only two rounds of team play.

And I also think that handicaps are even more drawn out between low and high in the pressure packed MC. Between video cameras, wanting to win, wanting to play well, etc... we have watched for 2 years as the lines are definitely drawn out. It puts pressure on the captains to put good matches together. But I can honestly say that there is no way possible that a higher indexed player contributes the same in best ball as they do in Alternate Shot. Its just not possible. Is that good or bad? Not sure yet really.

 

[JB]

I know it's not really my place to chime in here but I agree with Tyno's post:



Seems like alternate shot would create more teamwork and camaraderie as you have to work together and really pull for one another. This is a team event so having pressure and relying on your teammates should be a part of it in my opinion.

It absolutely is your place Dev. Everybody should have a voice, this event is about THP, not just the 32 playing.

 

[Nate]

Everyone will be playing the same course and basically the same setup of players. It's not like a (2,17) would run into a (5,6) combo. At least I don't think it would. You are putting too much pressure on shots you or anyone else hasn't even hit. At this point if the formt is alt. shot people are going to be so wound up its not even funny.

It's not about letting your teammate down. It's about lifting them up and enjoying the golf. If you hit it in the woods left. Laugh and wish him luck. He'll mumble something and go find it. At the end if the day we'll add it up and have a beer.

Easier said that done Freddie! LOL! You can't hit the shot for a partner that is struggling on the day but when he hits a bad shot and your up next and recover for him, there is something to be said about giving him confidence by feeding off your play. Not much you can do for him when your hitting out of the trees all day and then trying to talk him up at the same time.

 

[Canadan]

as much as alt. shot is downplayed and disliked, IMO it's one of the most pressure packed formats and can really create some interesting holes/scores/scenarios and can be the true test of a golfer's mettle.

heck, what's the difference between your partner setting you up with a bad shot and YOU setting yourself up with a bad shot? it's all about recovering, getting up and down, and not giving up.
i set myself up with bad shots all the time! but i recover and that's golf.

while i'm impartial to the formats (cuz i just want to effing play golf) i think alt. shot could be an interesting day in SC...

I'm glad you said this. Speaking from personal experience, it's not about your partner setting you up with a bad shot, it's about you setting your partner up with a bad shot. I've seen it absolutely crumble people.

Love the discussions!!! Add me to the list of alt shot is a tough format to crack. The biggest thing that I think most people are leaving out is that only one shot is played after the drive all the way in. I'm coming to play golf, and as much golf in this format as I can play. Now I'm hitting 2 shots less every hole. Very hard to get a groove going but again that is just me.

That's another awesome point. Playing rhythm golf is a big factor for me, and standing around not hitting a full shot for upwards of 20-30 minutes can be a huge destruction of it. Even worse, using True Blue as an example, the person teeing off on even numbered holes will hit a driver on 12, and then not use it again until 18 due to two par 3s being in there. That's flat out tough right there.

 

[dcbrad]

Everyone will be playing the same course and basically the same setup of players. It's not like a (2,17) would run into a (5,6) combo. At least I don't think it would. You are putting too much pressure on shots you or anyone else hasn't even hit. At this point if the formt is alt. shot people are going to be so wound up its not even funny.

It's not about letting your teammate down. It's about lifting them up and enjoying the golf. If you hit it in the woods left. Laugh and wish him luck. He'll mumble something and go find it. At the end if the day we'll add it up and have a beer.

That's the attitude I'd have! I'll be glad to know if you and I are paired, that it's OK to spray a few into the trees without repercussions!

 

[Puttin4Bird]

It shouldnt be. Let me try and explain better. In best ball, it could (and has been) effectively 2 against 1 as one low and one high paired together you will almost always use the low indexes scores. In scramble, the same thing applies. In alt shot, both players are equally a part of every match.

Basically it sounds to me like everyone should come ready to play, ready to contribute and ready for some pressure. I LOVE IT!!!

I like it! Riding coattails is out the window.

That sound you hear was ddec exiting stage left!!!

Everyone will be playing the same course and basically the same setup of players. It's not like a (2,17) would run into a (5,6) combo. At least I don't think it would. You are putting too much pressure on shots you or anyone else hasn't even hit. At this point if the formt is alt. shot people are going to be so wound up its not even funny.

It's not about letting your teammate down. It's about lifting them up and enjoying the golf. If you hit it in the woods left. Laugh and wish him luck. He'll mumble something and go find it. At the end if the day we'll add it up and have a beer.

Exactly! Regardless of how it all winds up in terms of formats this is the one thing that everyone needs to keep in mind. At the end of the day we'll all sit back and enjoy the comraderie and laugh it up about the entire experience.

 

[Nate]

That's the attitude I'd have! I'll be glad to know if you and I are paired, that it's OK to spray a few into the trees without repercussions!

You're hitting Bridgestone's......those clubs don't allow a ball to go in the trees!

 

[DevRickus]

That's another awesome point. Playing rhythm golf is a big factor for me, and standing around not hitting a full shot for upwards of 20-30 minutes can be a huge destruction of it. Even worse, using True Blue as an example, the person teeing off on even numbered holes will hit a driver on 12, and then not use it again until 18 due to two par 3s being in there. That's flat out tough right there.

Isn't that part of it though? It's design is for it to be tough. That's why in the Ryder Cup you don't always have the team with the best players on it win. You have the team that can adapt and play the best under the circumstances and win. I just think it brings out the team aspect of it more for me and I love team competition.

 

[dcbrad]

Easier said that done Freddie! LOL! You can't hit the shot for a partner that is struggling on the day but when he hits a bad shot and your up next and recover for him, there is something to be said about giving him confidence by feeding off your play. Not much you can do for him when your hitting out of the trees all day and then trying to talk him up at the same time.

Your absolutely right. Team chemistry is so important and can make up for this if you have it.

 

[JB]

I'm glad you said this. Speaking from personal experience, it's not about your partner setting you up with a bad shot, it's about you setting your partner up with a bad shot. I've seen it absolutely crumble people.

But isnt that part of a team event? Working with in a team to be together?



That's another awesome point. Playing rhythm golf is a big factor for me, and standing around not hitting a full shot for upwards of 20-30 minutes can be a huge destruction of it. Even worse, using True Blue as an example, the person teeing off on even numbered holes will hit a driver on 12, and then not use it again until 18 due to two par 3s being in there. That's flat out tough right there.

Bolded above is part of my answer
I think that plays a big part of it. But frankly that is about the team and if it is all about hitting one club in the bag, then an event like this is not heading down the right path. That would be about working with your partner to figure out the best scenarios.

I have to say the more I hear the gripes, the more I think this format might work because it is supposed to be about working together with a certain pressure. Is it perfect? No, but frankly no format is. Nobody knows what distance we are playing from, or frankly what courses will feature what formats. That is for a later date.

I understand that it might make things more difficult, but is that necessarily a bad thing in this event?

 

[ddxu]

I love all the discussion, a lot of points I've never even thought of between the different styles of matches.

 

[Canadan]

Is that part of it though? It's design is for it to be tough. That's why in the Ryder Cup you don't always have the team with the best players on it win. You have the team that can adapt and play the best under the circumstances and win. I just think it brings out the team aspect of it more for me and I love team competition.

I really don't agree. Playing golf at true blue is tough enough to begin with. Playing golf in front of cameras will be tough enough as an addition. You're comparing an amateur event with an event full of professionals, which is fine, but the talent level of those players makes alt-shot a viable option. How many times did we all bash Tiger for throwing Stricker up against a porta-potty this past year? Now take that talent level and decrease it substantially and that's what we're working with here.

I just don't think the two are comparable at all. I also don't think we need a format to dictate the team aspect at all. Just my opinion.