2013 Morgan Cup - The Ultimate Amateur Golf Event

[One-T]

Is that part of it though? It's design is for it to be tough. That's why in the Ryder Cup you don't always have the team with the best players on it win. You have the team that can adapt and play the best under the circumstances and win. I just think it brings out the team aspect of it more for me and I love team competition.

well, having been in 2 MC's already, I can tell you that you get to see a LOT of laughable shots. More than you know.

I am not voicing an opinion to be rude or mean. But...I know for a fact it can be very deflating if your partner is having a bad day and is constantly putting you in a bad situation you will get tired of it at some point. It is human nature to want to blame something for your down falls. Anyone who says its not is lying.

I have been one person that has always preached having a good time. I love pressure. Sometimes I dont perform 100% but I love it. So, its not a fear of the pressure. Its that I dont want people to not have a good time. If your partner is CONSTANTLY putting you in crap. then they will feel bad. especially if you lose. They just will...and anyone who says they wouldnt is lying...again.

I just dont think this is being thought out 100%. Sure, it will add to the competition. I am decent enough of a ball striker that I know I would be just fine with this format. But...how do you think these 18HDCPs are feeling right now? sure, they will put in hard work but at the end of the day they are doing everything that a 2 capper is doing on the forum as well as to prepare. But...it will be nothing but a let down to them. that is not fair to them.

 

[#Cookie]

Bolded above is part of my answer
I think that plays a big part of it. But frankly that is about the team and if it is all about hitting one club in the bag, then an event like this is not heading down the right path. That would be about working with your partner to figure out the best scenarios.

I have to say the more I hear the gripes, the more I think this format might work because it is supposed to be about working together with a certain pressure. Is it perfect? No, but frankly no format is. Nobody knows what distance we are playing from, or frankly what courses will feature what formats. That is for a later date.

I understand that it might make things more difficult, but is that necessarily a bad thing in this event?

Absolutely not. There was little pressure on Saturday until you reached the end of the match and you felt you had to execute a shot. I see nothing wrong with the increased pressure or a change in format. I love the idea of not being able to hide (for lack of a better term) behind the great play of a teammate. Not saying that has happened, but the alternate shot format rewards good golf being played by both partners more than any other format.

 

[ddec]

I love all the discussion, a lot of points I've never even thought of between the different styles of matches.

I think the discussion is good.

 

[dcbrad]

Bolded above is part of my answer
I think that plays a big part of it. But frankly that is about the team and if it is all about hitting one club in the bag, then an event like this is not heading down the right path. That would be about working with your partner to figure out the best scenarios.

I have to say the more I hear the gripes, the more I think this format might work because it is supposed to be about working together with a certain pressure. Is it perfect? No, but frankly no format is. Nobody knows what distance we are playing from, or frankly what courses will feature what formats. That is for a later date.

I understand that it might make things more difficult, but is that necessarily a bad thing in this event?

I think if you want to make it about the competition. (Which is what it should be about.) You're right, no format is going to be perfect. But if you want each golfer to feel that pressure, this style will accomplish that. Whether a golfer crumbles under it or rises to the occasion, is the beauty of the competition.

Gosh, I believe I completely reversed my earlier comment, but after thinking about it, it makes sense.

 

[DevRickus]

I really don't agree. Playing golf at true blue is tough enough to begin with. Playing golf in front of cameras will be tough enough as an addition. You're comparing an amateur event with an event full of professionals, which is fine, but the talent level of those players makes alt-shot a viable option. How many times did we all bash Tiger for throwing Stricker up against a porta-potty this past year? Now take that talent level and decrease it substantially and that's what we're working with here.

I just don't think the two are comparable at all. I also don't think we need a format to dictate the team aspect at all. Just my opinion.

I really dont agree either my man. It isnt about the cameras or what number is shot. It's about who does enough to win as a team. When you see a team competition score do you every really think about what number the player actually shot? I think it should be difficult and challenge people. Just my opinion as an outside observer.

 

[tyno]

I know it's not really my place to chime in here but I agree with Tyno's post:

nah dude don't say that. your voice is to be heard in here. especially when you agree with me!
and i think you'll find yourself agreeing with me so much, that you'll change that silly avatar and support Team Hackers. did you know that we won the Morgan Cup last year?

I'm glad you said this. Speaking from personal experience, it's not about your partner setting you up with a bad shot, it's about you setting your partner up with a bad shot. I've seen it absolutely crumble people.

but you are my partner and i am your partner...it's the same, just backwards. :bulgy-eyes:

GOLF crumbles people, period...no matter what format.
no matter if you're the one hitting bad shots, your partner hitting bad shots or your opponents hitting great shots. like when JB or Amol make every effing putt they step up to or if TBT drains two 30+ footers in a row? if you're human, you at least feel that in your gut a little bit. how you deal with it is up to you...

i can't speak for the other 31, but i don't crumble...
so if you do...well, you've got 7 months to prepare for competitive golf, with spectators, cameras, interviews and Internet stardom on the line. better get to work.

 

[ddxu]

I think if you want to make it about the competition. (Which is what it should be about.) You're right, no format is going to be perfect. But if you want each golfer to feel that pressure, this style will accomplish that. Whether a golfer crumbles under it or rises to the occasion, is the beauty of the competition.

Gosh, I believe I completely reversed my earlier comment, but after thinking about it, it makes sense.

IMO, if a fair competition was the primary goal, the teams would have been developed to create the most equal total team handicap possible.

 

[JB]

I really don't agree. Playing golf at true blue is tough enough to begin with. Playing golf in front of cameras will be tough enough as an addition. You're comparing an amateur event with an event full of professionals, which is fine, but the talent level of those players makes alt-shot a viable option. How many times did we all bash Tiger for throwing Stricker up against a porta-potty this past year? Now take that talent level and decrease it substantially and that's what we're working with here.

I just don't think the two are comparable at all. I also don't think we need a format to dictate the team aspect at all. Just my opinion.

You are correct. But let me tell you some stories about the last two Morgan Cups. The first one, had a team go 1 against 2 because the other teammate struggled so badly in best ball. This last year, there was no question in best ball there were multiple times it was the lower indexed player playing alone. Heck in my match with Jake, he played alone for the 1st 7 holes and then 3 more coming back after a rain delay. I was out of the match in my pocket. Thats not fun for a golfer, just sitting there waiting and hoping that your lower indexed partner can come through.

However if it were alternate shot, every player feels every stroke through the entire match. It would have been harder, but that is just part of it frankly. Is it perfect? No. But rather than working hard on my own game to make a couple of holes count, it would be us working together as a team to overcome obstacles. Each stroke would have been felt by both members of the team. Not just one guy playing his own game and the other guy along for the ride hoping to contribute a hole or two.

 

[tyno]

You're hitting Bridgestone's......those clubs don't allow a ball to go in the trees!

ahem...
apparently you've never played with ddec before...

 

[One-T]

Bolded above is part of my answer
I think that plays a big part of it. But frankly that is about the team and if it is all about hitting one club in the bag, then an event like this is not heading down the right path. That would be about working with your partner to figure out the best scenarios.

I have to say the more I hear the gripes, the more I think this format might work because it is supposed to be about working together with a certain pressure. Is it perfect? No, but frankly no format is. Nobody knows what distance we are playing from, or frankly what courses will feature what formats. That is for a later date.

I understand that it might make things more difficult, but is that necessarily a bad thing in this event?

its opinions...not gripes. I will show up and play golf no matter the format. and I really want to win to 3 peat but couldnt give a sh!t if I lose. But, giving my opinion shouldnt be looked at as a gripe.

 

[JB]

its opinions...not gripes. I will show up and play golf no matter the format. and I really want to win to 3 peat but couldnt give a sh!t if I lose. But, giving my opinion shouldnt be looked at as a gripe.

Gripes may have been a poor choice of words and was not meant to see it as complaining, but rather negative thoughts towards a format.

 

[One-T]

Gripes may have been a poor choice of words and was not meant to see it as complaining, but rather negative thoughts towards a format.

understandable.

Again, it will not matter to me. I will show up and be happy to play with any of the guys on Team Hackers. I have faith in all of the team. and I am one person who is quick to pick people up when down

 

[TripleBogieTim]

I think it depends on how the "modified" Alternate shot is set up.....in a "true alternate shot format" if player A makes the putt on the first green then player B hit the tee shot on the 2nd tee box.

Since we are talking modified alternate shot...where both players hit tee shots and you chose the best one and begin alternate shot from there....if the team is given the option of who hits the second shot on each hole you could make it really interesting. In other words just because player A makes the putt on the first green it doesn't force player B to hit the second shot on the 2nd hole...it becomes a team decision as to who hits the second shot...that way on a short par 4 if you have a great drive..you could choose to let the higher capper hit the second shot with a short iron in his hand.,...or to hit the second shot on a long par 5 where you are hitting nothing more than a layup shot....if you have a tough long iron shot you could choose to let the better player hit it.

I think it could be managed by each team if it was set up like that but still manage to get both players involved and apply some pressure of having to produce a good shot......just my opinion.

 

[DevRickus]

understandable.

Again, it will not matter to me. I will show up and be happy to play with any of the guys on Team Hackers. I have faith in all of the team. and I am one person who is quick to pick people up when down

That will change when Jeff Overton is caddying for you. Talk about One-T nerves...haha

 

[wadesworld]

I have to agree with Dan, that if a 2 and a 17 are paired, that 17 is (in theory) is going to be "letting down" the 2.

Only if the 2 is unrealistic and expects the 17 to play like something other than a 17. By the same token, the 17 has to realize he's a 17 and not try to play like a 2. Just play your normal game and hit the best shots you can. If both sides have the understanding that's what's going to happen, there shouldn't be any disappointment when the 17 hits a bad shot. The 2 might want to look at it as "the team who wins is whichever one has the 2 recovering the best from any bad shots." In other words, we didn't lose because you hit bad shots (because that can't be completely avoided), we lost because my skilled self didn't get us recovered well enough.

The important aspect is that it's truly a team match. Neither player can win unless they both hit some good shots. In a scramble or best ball, you can still win if only one person is hitting good shots. It's somewhat of a hollow victory if your team wins, but 85% of the shots came from one player. It was really just a singles match between the best players.

 

[dcbrad]

IMO, if a fair competition was the primary goal, the teams would have been developed to create the most equal total team handicap possible.

In all seriousness, how much weight can you put into handicaps when it's three rounds of golf? It's a snapshot in the grand scheme of things. So I think whether that was done or not (which I don't think that's how teams were determined), I don't know if it would be "more fair" if the handicaps were as close as possible. But I do see your point!

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

You guys have some great ideas in here about format. All I'll say is tell me what ball to play and when to play it haha

 

[JB]

understandable.

Again, it will not matter to me. I will show up and be happy to play with any of the guys on Team Hackers. I have faith in all of the team. and I am one person who is quick to pick people up when down

You are and are one I think would do very well in this format. You have a sense of "forget the bad" that makes it very compatible with teammates.

 

[Nate]

Well......guess I need to start practicing my alt. shot process with someone this spring.........ready Cookie!?

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Harness good..... block bad.....

 

[DevRickus]

Harness good..... block bad.....

Doin the bull dance. Feeling the flow.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Doin the bull dance. Feeling the flow.

send him home happy

 

[Canadan]

Bolded above is part of my answer
I think that plays a big part of it. But frankly that is about the team and if it is all about hitting one club in the bag, then an event like this is not heading down the right path. That would be about working with your partner to figure out the best scenarios.

I have to say the more I hear the gripes, the more I think this format might work because it is supposed to be about working together with a certain pressure. Is it perfect? No, but frankly no format is. Nobody knows what distance we are playing from, or frankly what courses will feature what formats. That is for a later date.

I understand that it might make things more difficult, but is that necessarily a bad thing in this event?

It's not really a gripe, I just see it detracting from the event. It's just my opinion on it through personal experience with Alt-Shot and it's not even my own personal experience, just me watching people in my groups during these events, including my own partners. If a guy hits it into the trees, I'll hit it out for him while he apologizes over and over and over again. In my experience, that's exactly how it goes.

It will certainly bring everyone into play, you're not wrong about that.

I really dont agree either my man. It isnt about the cameras or what number is shot. It's about who does enough to win as a team. When you see a team competition score do you every really think about what number the player actually shot? I think it should be difficult and challenge people. Just my opinion as an outside observer.

I guess it depends what you want to get out of it. If 'making it more difficult' means making guys play from teammates mistakes, I guess you're right.

You are correct. But let me tell you some stories about the last two Morgan Cups. The first one, had a team go 1 against 2 because the other teammate struggled so badly in best ball. This last year, there was no question in best ball there were multiple times it was the lower indexed player playing alone. Heck in my match with Jake, he played alone for the 1st 7 holes and then 3 more coming back after a rain delay. I was out of the match in my pocket. Thats not fun for a golfer, just sitting there waiting and hoping that your lower indexed partner can come through.

However if it were alternate shot, every player feels every stroke through the entire match. It would have been harder, but that is just part of it frankly. Is it perfect? No. But rather than working hard on my own game to make a couple of holes count, it would be us working together as a team to overcome obstacles. Each stroke would have been felt by both members of the team. Not just one guy playing his own game and the other guy along for the ride hoping to contribute a hole or two.

Again I think you're right. Alt-shot forces everyone to play. I'll never contest that. I am thinking about my personal experiences with each format and the attitudes that are reflected around it. In fact, I'd love to relive some of them by camera and see just how many scowls I could produce haha -- it'd be ugly.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

It's not really a gripe, I just see it detracting from the event. It's just my opinion on it through personal experience with Alt-Shot and it's not even my own personal experience, just me watching people in my groups during these events, including my own partners. If a guy hits it into the trees, I'll hit it out for him while he apologizes over and over and over again. In my experience, that's exactly how it goes.

It will certainly bring everyone into play, you're not wrong about that.



I guess it depends what you want to get out of it. If 'making it more difficult' means making guys play from teammates mistakes, I guess you're right.



Again I think you're right. Alt-shot forces everyone to play. I'll never contest that. I am thinking about my personal experiences with each format and the attitudes that are reflected around it. In fact, I'd love to relive some of them by camera and see just how many scowls I could produce haha -- it'd be ugly.

No scowls. Haven't you watched the videos? There is no bad golf played in The Morgan Cup. Seriously. I have yet to see it. Everyone steps up their game.

 

[White Rhino]

Gah I don't know any of these. I guess just tell me what I'm playing lol

I am going to take this approach!!! Just point me in the direction of the first tee and I will play with anyone, against anyone and just have a good time which this is all about.

I could let all this talk about the dreaded high handicapper causing all sorts of problems for the lower handicappers and be the reason that the team he is on loses a match or I can ignore it and plan on having alot of fun in July. I think I am going to go with option #2 on this one.

Of course I am down for the three other higher handicapers in this event to meet me at a local putt putt course and we can have our match there.